It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Enacting a basic income for all Americans

page: 5
12
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: beezzer
Is personal responsibility dead?


You don't even make sense when you say this it's totally irrelevant.


Let me put it another way,

Who is responsible for your health, welfare, lifestyle?

You or government.




posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:11 PM
link   
a reply to: beezzer

How is this even relevant? What can you or I do as individuals to fight the future? Become Neo-Luddites? Fight the system with sticks and stones?



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:13 PM
link   
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You really think getting an extra 11k or 6k a year is worth everything it would entail? Those with jobs, that's potentially enough to bump them up a tax bracket. So now they're being taxed more because they make more, by a few grand. They're being taxed more because taxes have been passed to support the handouts. And oh yea, they're paying taxes on their handout. A handout provided by a government that is now even bigger than it has ever been.

Seems fair.

At OP - repeating something over and over again doesn't make it any more true. Wishing something really really hard doesn't make it more true. You're trying to make it sound as if the world is passing the U.S. by in education when there is zero data to support that. The countries ahead of the U.S. in most educational statistics are already industrialized and have had strong education for years. There isn't some massive influx of new untapped workers suddenly appearing out of nowhere.

And for what it's worth, if you're spending from 7 am to 10 pm trying to make a buck and get business, maybe you're just not a good businessman. I know several people who run various martial arts gyms, including two that are less than two years old, and not one single person is doing anything at 7 am except doing their own workouts and eating breakfast. Not. A. Single. One.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:16 PM
link   

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: beezzer

How is this even relevant? What can you or I do as individuals to fight the future? Become Neo-Luddites? Fight the system with sticks and stones?


I don't care what you do.

Some, obviously, just want to bend over and allow whatever government deems to give us.

I ask if personal responsibility is dead.

That is the individual responsible for themselves and for their life choices.

Obviously people do think it is dead but are avoiding the question.

Just "Gimme, gimme, gimme, I don't like freedom or responsibility because it is too hard and it isn't fair!"



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:17 PM
link   
You could do the responsible thing, and tear it down.


The future doesn't have to be the elite ruling every aspect our lives from their pearl thrones.
Unfortunately, that would mean more or less feeding the general useless humans who hang around doing their part driving this planet into extinction.

If we had unlimited resources, a ruling class could theoretically create this future vision in which all people are fed without doing their part.

Our resources are, however, frighteningly limited. The population can't be 30% of what it is, worldwide today, if we're to make it through the next century with our prospects intact.
Only way we wind up with a new world order who makes sure everyone has a basic quality of life (NOT income, currency can't exist in this theoretical system) is to do the job natural selection stopped doing when we took over and stopped allowing the minds incapable of feeding themselves die off.
I'll give you a hint- it worked better when selection wasn't driven by sociopaths.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: beezzer
Is personal responsibility dead?


You don't even make sense when you say this it's totally irrelevant.


Let me put it another way,

Who is responsible for your health, welfare, lifestyle?

You or government.


The government. Because it owes him.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: beezzer
Is personal responsibility dead?


You don't even make sense when you say this it's totally irrelevant.


Let me put it another way,

Who is responsible for your health, welfare, lifestyle?

You or government.


The government. Because it owes him.


Slavery, no matter how guilded the cage, is still slavery.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:19 PM
link   
And before I get accused of being hard-hearted, I understand what you are trying to do. And I agree it's a worthy idea. The problem is that it is vastly impractical.

I don't believe there is any way it would work, not even if we abolished money, because the community has to survive, and there are a number of very hard and not so fun jobs that would have to be done for that to happen. It would be much easier for someone to sit at home and claim basic than to labor at those tasks. The community would risk dying out.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:20 PM
link   
a reply to: beezzer

No, dammit! I am ENTITLED!



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:21 PM
link   
What I'm seeing in this thread is a lot of anger.

I'm seeing a "Well gosh darn it no one ever helped me, why should I help anyone else!". I'm also seeing a "I got mine, screw everyone else!".

I see it all the time, actually. I hear stories like, "I went to work when I was 15, shoveling horse crap for 12 hours a day!"

Did you also walk 20 miles, uphill in 120F weather every day to school, barefoot? Poor you, poor, poor you. Cry me a river, those crocodile tears don't mean anything to me all these years later.

These people want us to pity them, admire their hard work and self-imposed self sacrifice. They see themselves as martyrs of the workforce. In reality, they allowed themselves to be slaves to a system that abused and took advantage of their labors.

Get off the cross, someone else can use that wood.

Anyway, addressing the topic at hand...

We're going to have to reduce the world's population in order for everyone to fit in. I think a shift will occur in people where having 10 kids isn't something desirable anymore.
edit on 3-6-2015 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: beezzer

No, dammit! I am ENTITLED!


Of course you are! Here, have a cookie. Now just vote the way I want you to, or the cookies are going to go bye-bye!



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:22 PM
link   
a reply to: beezzer

*shrug*

I just go to work every day, same as you. I have watched 3 of my "careers" outsourced and eventually automated to 1/10 the previous levels of employment, and those were "good jobs," like voice and data transport, and telecommunications infrastructure positions, back when they still hired techie musicians to listen for tone on a loop back.

I'm telling you right now, they already have surgical robots that can perform appendectomies as well as any doctor. I've seen them because I keep up with my SO's field. Your current job and my current job don't stand a chance.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
[...]
We're going to have to reduce the world's population in order for everyone to fit in. I think a shift will occur in people where having 10 kids isn't something desirable anymore.



I fear that shift won't occur until it's far too late.

Correction- I fear that shift hasn't occurred yet, and it's far, far too late.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:24 PM
link   
a reply to: 0zzymand0s

By the time I am 60 I will be writing and teaching kids how to make music. That should supplement my basic income nicely, -- if not in $$ than satisfaction.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:25 PM
link   
a reply to: 0zzymand0s

They will always need someone to program the robot!

(and by the way, it's called a DaVinci)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:26 PM
link   
a reply to: beezzer

Star for the Simpsons reference!



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: beezzer

Star for the Simpsons reference!


lolz

Actually. . .

www.davincisurgery.com...



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:29 PM
link   
a reply to: MystikMushroom

No-one is asking for "help".

What is being proposed is a lifestyle supplemented by tax-payer dollars.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:31 PM
link   
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Did all those things and now I'm being asked to work enough to support all of the world's unemployed who have no intention of every being employed too.


edit on 3-6-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:32 PM
link   
a reply to: onequestion
I disagree. Same argument as you posit could have been used just as the industrial revolution started. Or just as oil was discovered and engines were used to capitalize on it. Or just as airplanes and massive ocean going ships were created. Or just as atomic power was discovered and soon exploited. Or computers... Or robots...

Same deal different decade. People will respond. I think the pattern is more and more education and more and more ability for us to communicate and exchanges things. Another pattern is less children, less disease, less hard labor, etc.

Hey I;'m not saying people won't be displaced. People WERE displaced by machines, at least for a while. People have lost jobs to computers and robots. People who fish have lost jobs because of the management of the fisheries. But if they're young they can adapt and even the old ones find ways to adapt. Some people fail, but that'll always happen.

And I think you worrying about this is a healthy thing if it's not excessive. It's good because it challenges us to always improve ourselves and to NOT be left behind in the gutters and alleyways of history.
edit on 3-6-2015 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
12
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join