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Enacting a basic income for all Americans

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posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I live in an area of affluence where people get a lot of money handed down to them and non of them just sit on their couch doing nothing.

Most of them are artist or organically farm their own food or get into yoga or meditation and things like that.

Honestly id prefer a world where everyone had the freedom so pursue this way of living rather ten being forced into a rat race.




posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
You assume if everyone had basic necessities that all desire to work would suddenly evaporate and we'd all be welfare queens.


Yes.
When I lived in the US, I was on unemployment for 3 months. It was the most miserable 3 months of my life. On top of the crushing boredom, I couldn't afford to go DO anything. I spent my time applying for jobs, travelling to interviews, and spent the evenings applying for jobs online. When I wasn't job hunting, I was basically staring at the TV waiting for death. I was completely miserable. Even if I had guaranteed basic income, I'd try to do SOMETHING to earn me extra money for playtime, and not just sit around collecting dust like an antique vase.


Good for you.

Do you speak for every person who is/was/will be unemployed?
No. I don't.

Would you stop working if you had Basic Income? Let's start a poll.


Wrong.

First ask a poll if you would TAKE a basic income.
Usagi is grumpy today.

Okay, would you take a basic income? It's pretty safe to assume you would not.

Part two, if basic income was guaranteed to all citizens, with no caveats, and it was automatically deposited into a bank account or mailed to you weekly, would you work?


If I was working my butt off and watching the lion's share of pay disappear to Big Brother to go into everyone else's mailbox to "pay" them to sit on their butts, why bother busting my hump?

Am I going to be able to make enough above their basic working 40 to 60 or more in order to make all that effort they don't have to put in worth it?



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I get it, you think your going to be paying for someone else.

I see the problem now.

These changes will come with fundamental changes to economic infrastructure and how and why we value money.

It'll be a good thing trust me.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: beezzer

So your saying you wouldn't take the income you would rather work, but your premise is that everyone else would and do nothing?

Interesting logic.

I'm a boxing coach, Id probably still trade my services for things I love boxing.


I thought you were a carpenter and a truck driver?



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

It's an invalid and unproven argument.

They are grasping at straws.


False. Many of us don't feel "wronged" by the system and continually post rants and ideas that are generally aimed at getting what YOU think is owed to you. Many of us don't want to hyper-inflate an already massive government. Many of us don't want, or need, a handout. Did you even read you own link? How are they going to pay for this? Taxes! Who are they going to tax? Well, everybody. With that little check they just gave you? Yep, part of it is going right back to the person who gave it to you.

You've shown time and again with your posts that you think you got shafted by "the man" and you're owed something because of it. I don't think I have been. I don't think a handout is owed to me. I don't want an even more enormous government than there already is. I don't want to pay even more taxes so you can sit around and watch tv 15 hours a day. And I sure as hell don't want somebody trying to give me a check but telling me I owe them some of it back because reasons. My kids leech off me more than enough. Then again, they're in grade school. I don't need you and the government adding to that.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:50 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
You assume if everyone had basic necessities that all desire to work would suddenly evaporate and we'd all be welfare queens.


Yes.
When I lived in the US, I was on unemployment for 3 months. It was the most miserable 3 months of my life. On top of the crushing boredom, I couldn't afford to go DO anything. I spent my time applying for jobs, travelling to interviews, and spent the evenings applying for jobs online. When I wasn't job hunting, I was basically staring at the TV waiting for death. I was completely miserable. Even if I had guaranteed basic income, I'd try to do SOMETHING to earn me extra money for playtime, and not just sit around collecting dust like an antique vase.


Good for you.

Do you speak for every person who is/was/will be unemployed?
No. I don't.

Would you stop working if you had Basic Income? Let's start a poll.


Wrong.

First ask a poll if you would TAKE a basic income.
Usagi is grumpy today.

Okay, would you take a basic income? It's pretty safe to assume you would not.

Part two, if basic income was guaranteed to all citizens, with no caveats, and it was automatically deposited into a bank account or mailed to you weekly, would you work?


That's the problem. There are caveats. Big ones. Something the OP seems to blissfully ignore.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:50 PM
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I yearn for a day when I don't NEED to work- but not because I want to sit on ass all day and watch lost- or whatever nonsense people watch on the tube these days.

Technology SHOULD make my life easy so I can spend MY time making the world a better place.



But that's not the world we live in. Technology will be exploited by the rich and powerful so they can get more rich and powerful- the rest of you be damned.
We fought communism tooth and nail here in america because that would hurt the rich- NOT because it was a bad plan.

We've got a world wide overpopulation problem converging with a word wide fiat currency collapse problem. If you think there will be robots making consumer goods in 30 years for the 1%, I've got a surprise for you- look forward to it sometime in the next decade.

I don't enjoy giving up half my life force to help those who are too lazy to help themselves- but I'd rather that than give it up to what I'm actually doing, which is giving it up to the people who built the system that they are above.

I'm just one of the dying breed of hard working people who wants to have what he can earn for himself and his family. We used to be everywhere- this country was built on the backs of people like me.
Now it's driven us into the dirt, and is starting to pick the meat from our bones to feed the economic elite, who is in turn giving table scraps to the "voting" public who doesn't carry their weight.

Good luck to all of you.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:53 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: SlapMonkey

If you can get comfortable just scrapping by then why does capitalism exist and why do so many people constantly push the boundaries of innovation and work so hard to accomplish more when they could just simply exist?


I didn't say that everyone, including me, would be comfortable just scraping by, but I know many a person, my brother-in-law included, that has landed themselves in a fiscal rut and, while being able-bodied and -minded, chosen to remain in that rut for years.

These types of people exist, IMHO, as a reminder as what not to become, and I tell that to my son on a regular basis--heartless as it may seem, I don't care, because I'm looking out for his future and his best interest.

Capitalism exists as the antithesis to something like a caste system--it allows anyone, regardless of the situation into which they are born--to become whatever they want to be if they try hard enough and have the right system in place that allows them to break the cycle.

Right now, I think we have a system with welfare and poverty that specifically hinders this very notion, and it saddens me.
edit on 3-6-2015 by SlapMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:53 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
You assume if everyone had basic necessities that all desire to work would suddenly evaporate and we'd all be welfare queens.


Yes.
When I lived in the US, I was on unemployment for 3 months. It was the most miserable 3 months of my life. On top of the crushing boredom, I couldn't afford to go DO anything. I spent my time applying for jobs, travelling to interviews, and spent the evenings applying for jobs online. When I wasn't job hunting, I was basically staring at the TV waiting for death. I was completely miserable. Even if I had guaranteed basic income, I'd try to do SOMETHING to earn me extra money for playtime, and not just sit around collecting dust like an antique vase.


Good for you.

Do you speak for every person who is/was/will be unemployed?
No. I don't.

Would you stop working if you had Basic Income? Let's start a poll.


Wrong.

First ask a poll if you would TAKE a basic income.
Usagi is grumpy today.

Okay, would you take a basic income? It's pretty safe to assume you would not.

Part two, if basic income was guaranteed to all citizens, with no caveats, and it was automatically deposited into a bank account or mailed to you weekly, would you work?


That's the problem. There are caveats. Big ones. Something the OP seems to blissfully ignore.
There are caveats if we continue to prop up this failing economic model we call capitalism and it's broken currency.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:54 PM
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Basic income is coming, don't ever kid yourselves. Technology can already replace most jobs, and the ones that can't be replaced will be replaceable in the next 25 years.

And yes, that includes Doctors, Lawyers and Nurses. The only people who don't get this already do not work in Computer Science, or have a background in automation, robotics, et al.

No, we will probably still need Garage Door Installers for a bit, and some people will pay extra for that personal touch in Healthcare or Food Service. Of course, those jobs will become boutique positions and - if we aren't careful, won't keep up with inflation.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: lordcomac

I work from 7am and I don't get home until 10 and in teaching people how to fight all day.

Half of that time is spent working on and figuring out new ways to try and reach new clients.

That's besides the fact that this in an inevitable. That doesn't change the fact that automation is making it so we can produce the same amount if not more goods with fewer and fewer people. That doesn't chNge the fact that more and more nations are catching up and passing us educationally and adding even more and more people to the labor pool.

It is and will happen.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: onequestion why don't you want to join the rat race and work until you're in your 60s. Then you can retire and enjoy the things life has to offer when your older and whacked out from working your whole life doing something you hate?



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:58 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
You assume if everyone had basic necessities that all desire to work would suddenly evaporate and we'd all be welfare queens.


Yes.
When I lived in the US, I was on unemployment for 3 months. It was the most miserable 3 months of my life. On top of the crushing boredom, I couldn't afford to go DO anything. I spent my time applying for jobs, travelling to interviews, and spent the evenings applying for jobs online. When I wasn't job hunting, I was basically staring at the TV waiting for death. I was completely miserable. Even if I had guaranteed basic income, I'd try to do SOMETHING to earn me extra money for playtime, and not just sit around collecting dust like an antique vase.


Good for you.

Do you speak for every person who is/was/will be unemployed?
No. I don't.

Would you stop working if you had Basic Income? Let's start a poll.


Wrong.

First ask a poll if you would TAKE a basic income.
Usagi is grumpy today.

Okay, would you take a basic income? It's pretty safe to assume you would not.

Part two, if basic income was guaranteed to all citizens, with no caveats, and it was automatically deposited into a bank account or mailed to you weekly, would you work?


Where is this money coming from? Because no-one pays something for nothing.

I wouldn't trust it nor would I rely on it.

Like social security, I'm not planning on it being there.

I would ignore it and continue working.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

Wish to work? You say that like people will have any say in the matter.

In a world where 1 Doctor can do the work of 10 surgeons, augmented by surgical robots and techs, your job is next. Never kid yourself.

Ideally - basic income will free up a lot of people to pursue their human passions, because labor will be a relic of a bygone age, just like Horses and Buggies.

Those who are driven to innovate, and can do so will still make several times the basic income of those who can't / don't or won't. But you can kiss goodbye the notion that "full employment" will be available for everyone who wants it. That time has come and gone.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
Basic income is coming, don't ever kid yourselves. Technology can already replace most jobs, and the ones that can't be replaced will be replaceable in the next 25 years.

And yes, that includes Doctors, Lawyers and Nurses. The only people who don't get this already do not work in Computer Science, or have a background in automation, robotics, et al.

No, we will probably still need Garage Door Installers for a bit, and some people will pay extra for that personal touch in Healthcare or Food Service. Of course, those jobs will become boutique positions and - if we aren't careful, won't keep up with inflation.
So much this. People with their ear to the ground in the tech world know this is coming, and coming fast.

It'll be a difficult transition, there will likely be wars. Nasty wars. Maybe even nuclear. But if we can move beyond that, what lies on the other side will be truly amazing to behold.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: 0zzymand0s

Long long long gone.

Our first glimpse into the future came with the printing press and then again with the cotton gin.
edit on 6/3/2015 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:02 PM
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Is personal responsibility dead?



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
Is personal responsibility dead?


You don't even make sense when you say this it's totally irrelevant.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: woodwardjnr

Almost all of us are in the same rat race- some of us just don't see it that way.

I like how you imply retirement is plausible- tell that to someone who is informed and still in their 20's or 30's in the US.
There is no retirement. Not even for some people just reaching 60 now- it's just not feasible unless you were smart enough to invest in property before the 90's, and manged not to get screwed by the various hiccups between then and now.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: ketsuko

I get it, you think your going to be paying for someone else.

I see the problem now.

These changes will come with fundamental changes to economic infrastructure and how and why we value money.

It'll be a good thing trust me.


No, that's not it.

Do you know what money is? It's not disconnected from production or work. It symbolizes your work.

Basically before money, your currency was the good or service you produced. So for the farmer, his currency was his grain or his sheep that he worked to raise and harvest. Those goods represented the fruit of his labor. For a carpenter, it was the various woodwork he created into finished pieces. All that those things represented his labor. Quality indicated the value of his labor for both men.

In order for us all to have "basic" income, you are saying that sitting around doing nothing has value and quality and ought to be represented by money. But since there is no money without real goods or services of value to back it, someone, many someones, in this case the people who do not sit around living on basic, must work enough to produce the goods and services equivalent to the value of that basic check you are providing to everyone because nothing has no value.







 
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