Apocalyptic Revelations...

A great revelation that i would like to discuss here is that the Biblical Apocalyptic tradition does not source back to the Hebrews but was rather a reinterpretation of the Prophetic tradition informed by Persian influence, for those who aren't aware of the difference between Prophetic and Apocalyptic tradition i would recommend a read of The inheritance of Prophecy in the Apocalyptic

In general it can be considered that;

it is evident that there were no eschatological doctrines in Jewish faith up to the end of the Old Testament period , neither in individual nor universal scales. Instead eschatological concepts such as heaven and hell, resurrection of the dead at the end time, individual and final judgment, reward or punishment of the souls, etc. made their way in Jewish writings during the last two centuries B.C.E, during which a long Persian authority was present in Jerusalem.

Zoroastrian Eschatology influence on Judaism

It seems clear then that the idea of a great Divine plan developing over the ages was of Zoroastrian origin and that the Jews developed their own Apocalyptic tradition from their Prophetic corpus re-evaluating and re-interpreting and generally trying to make out they'd considered this all along, never acknowledging the Persian influence, which pre-dated their own.

The Zoroastrian dogmatic chronology counts twelve thousand years from the beginning of the spiritual creation to the renovation of the world, in four ages of three millenniums each. The revelation to Zoroaster and the founding of the true religion fall at the beginning of the last age, the appearance of Shaoshyant at its close.

The earliest texts of the Avesta the Gathas date back to around 1,200-1,000 Bc are considered to have been composed by Zarathustra himself within the general region of Airyana, with those dates in mind it is notable that the Magi would have been expecting the first of three subsequent descendants of Zarathustra considered to come along over three millenium around the time of Christ.

Zoroastrian tradition envisions three future saviors, one for the end of each thousand-year period that comprise the last 3,000 years of the world. All three will be born of maidens, conceived while their mothers bathed in a lake that miraculously preserved the seed of the prophet Zoroaster himself. The first will be named Hushedar, the second Hushedarmah] and the third will be the Saoshyant, who will lead humanity in the final battle against falsehood.

The Magi may or may not have seen things that way but it's clear that the Jewish trait is to adopt all influence such that it seems entirely of their own inspiration, and so Jesus at the transfiguration is presented in terms of sequential Hebraic history in conjunction with Moses and Elijah, the idea is the same the adaptation differs, and of course they adapted so much more;

At the end of time, the glory will come over the Victorious savior and his other companions, when he will make the world perfect, not aging, immortal… so that the dead will resurrect . . .

And they will make a new world, freed from old age and death, from decomposition and corruption, eternally living, eternally growing, possessing power at will, when the dead will rise again, when immortality will come to the living, and when the world will renew itself as desired

Zoroastrian is essentially a religion that concerns itself with the differentiation of true and false, true spirits that lead to good words and good deeds leading to salvation and the opposite in terms of lies, there were other influences upon Christianity but the essential Dualistic conflict between good and evil of the Apocalyptic tradition is fundamental, were the Amesha Spentas are the equivalent of the Archangels.

Finally, Ahura Mazda seizes the Evil Spirit, and each of the archangelic Amesha Spentas lays hold of his antagonist among the arch-fiends, Sraosha grappling with Aeshma. The devil, Ahriman, flees back into gloom and darkness by the passage by which he first invaded the upper world; hell itself is purified by the molten metal, and is reclaimed for the enlargement of the world. Thus by God's will the restitution of all things is accomplished, and the world is immortal for ever and aye

So there we are then, the Frashokereti is nigh...

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Hey Kantzveldt, hope all is well, and hope you have had some time and desire to make paintings and drawings since the last time I spoke to you.

In the OP it is mentioned 'Zoroastrian tradition envisions three future saviors, one for the end of each thousand-year period that comprise the last 3,000 years of the world'.

And then you say; 'So there we are then, the Frashokereti is nigh'

Is Jesus considered one of them? And if so, who was the one a thousand years after him? And then around the time of year 2000 you consider the next one will be...coinciding with around the time of Mayan prediction too, quite cool...but maybe they too had discussions from ancient civilizations to come to that date and theory.

a reply to: ImaFungi

Hi, yes i've made some drawings quite recently so maybe i could scan and post those, thanks for the interest

Right so if we see Zarathustra at around three thousand years ago as starting off the final three thousand years then Jesus at 2,000 years ago could have been seen by the Magi as the first of the expected three millenium teachers, personally i'm happy enough to see things that way but i don't expect many others to share that view.

The candidate for the second is of course also open to question even among Zoroastrians but as a continuation from Christ only Francis of Assisi had the reputation of being considered worthy as a second Messiah, and i'd be happy enough with that also.

The final Messiah of course has not yet emerged but these are the expectations;

The story of the Saoshyant's conception and early life are described in Denkard 7.10.15ff as follows: Thirty years before the decisive final battle, a maiden named Eredat-fedhri ("Victorious Helper") and whose nickname is "Body-maker" will enter a lake . Sitting in the water, the girl, who has "not associated with men" will receive "victorious knowledge." Her son, when born, will not know nourishment from his mother, his body will be sun-like, and the "royal glory" of the Khvarenah will be with him. Then, for the next 57 years he will subsist on only vegetables (17 years), then only water (30 years) and then for the final 10 years only on "spiritual food."

Saoshyant

There are many shared principles between Christianity and Zoroastrianism, that Zarathustra was illuminated at the age of thirty, that resurrection is a three day process and the Millennial expectations, but what i like most of all about their masterplan is that it begins in the Age of Virgo some 12,000 years ago, important as i considered here in Virgo-Neolithic Dawn

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Ah very nice!

I will look into Francis of Assisi.

Also, cant resist;






Also, have you ever seen this painting? I know there are a lot in relation to the topic, but I know you are interested in art, and the detail astounded me; Particularly on the castle (as I assume the painter to represent and even attempt to submit himself to the fact of fine detail, and crafts ship associated with the heavenly side of things), the details of the figures, and the castle itself, the sharp lines, everything, even the glow and shine of those few rocks in the bottom left corner are so sensuous, and nice looking).

Cant get the link to work, so I guess; google: The Last Judgment (Memling) .... and wikipedia you can click the image and zoom.

a reply to: ImaFungi

Love that painting, i'll give it some study.

Francis of Assisi was recognized as an alter Christus, a new Christ, but in terms of a millenium based master plan his birth in 1181 seemingly presents difficulties, though there were expectations for 1176 so maybe someone's got a birth date wrong, the inner courtyard of the Dead sea Temple Scroll sacred precinct had a perimeter value of 1176 cubits, the outer value of each of the four walls being given as 294 cubits in length, thus 294 x 4=1176 perimeter, which is a doubling of the Earth Venus synodic of 588 days, and were 224+364=588 as the rounded orbital periodic's of Venus and Earth have a mean value of 294 days, all Apocalyptic traditions require fiendish numerology

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: ImaFungi

Love that painting, i'll give it some study.

Francis of Assisi was recognized as an alter Christus, a new Christ, but in terms of a millenium based master plan his birth in 1181 seemingly presents difficulties, though there were expectations for 1176 so maybe someone's got a birth date wrong, the inner courtyard of the Dead sea Temple Scroll sacred precinct had a perimeter value of 1176 cubits, the outer value of each of the four walls being given as 294 cubits in length, thus 294 x 4=1176 perimeter, which is a doubling of the Earth Venus synodic of 588 days, and were 224+364=588 as the rounded orbital periodic's of Venus and Earth have a mean value of 294 days, all Apocalyptic traditions require fiendish numerology

Aye.

Yes it is weird, perhaps the prophecies are never perfect in detail, but the generalities are what are more likely and meaningful... though I dont know. Who knows the number system those who predicted the 1000 year interval even used, if it was calculated that they meant 1000; while using a different base decimal system... or if not, if they used the same number system as us, I am skeptical to consider the meaning of such a perfectly round number as 1000, especially when equated to the nature of years....but... then I recall that there is something very significant about the nature of years, and that is the seasons, the changes are real, and so the influence they have had over the progression of life must be real, just as all must live by day and night, so too, season by season, year by year...so yes there is significance. But still for them to just call out '1000 years it is'... I mean, there should be some room for error. Because I personally very hardcorely believe in free will, and if you believe that every single minute action is determined, and that therefore all prophecy is exactly given with perfect detail and certainty and included the exact time range up to however many decimals... well I dont know, I just dont believe that is the case, because then noone would even have to think or live right, because nature would just be doing everything itself for itself.

That said; 1176 and 1181 are infinitely closer than they are further. I dont know how that relates to the dead sea scrolls stuff. Also I have never been too interested with numerology or math, I do agree that a person should be acquainted with a little bit of everything to be well rounded, but my father is an accountant and so that scared me away from math and numbers. I generally comprehend how everything is related to measure and form (number, in space, geometry, quantity), weight/substance, but my head is just not too well filled with the proper math tools and mechanisms. But I recognize how important it is for knowledge in general, for human knowledge and ability, to compare and contrast everything, to build and construct, it is most important.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Great thread. Bookmarking for later.

And my moniker is another form of Zoroaster.

Well it's actually zardusht but...

Some feel that Zoroaster and Buddha were the same person or from the same stock. They both set out to reform the religions of their day pointing to one God instead of the commonly held views of the time. They both were against the deva worship that is found in Hinduism.
Kind of similar to Jesus. We know that the Buddhas are of the order of Hermes. And Jesus was transfigured on mount Hermes. He also equated himself to the caduceus the staff of Hermes. Moses died on mount Nebo which is the Babylonian Hermes.

Zardusht, siddhartha, moses, Jesus. All Buddhas

a reply to: Kantzveldt


The word apocalypse is the translation of the Greek word ἀποκάλυψις apokalypsis which means unveiling or uncovering.It does NOT mean great cataclysmic events as the modern meaning that was “twisted from the book of revelation.

The book of revelation is NOT predictions or prophecies of past,present or future historical events.It has ZERO to do with religion spirituality or mysticism that is foisted upon it by the religious carnal mind (satan).

Zoroastrianism,Gnosticism,Hinduism,Judaism,Christianity etc ,etc is just as invalid as ALL religion because it is ALL patently false constructs “created” lock stock and barrel in the mind of man.

Anyone who believes any of it enlightens them or they can ascended in knowledge through them is completely deluded to the reality of truth.

a reply to: Kantzveldt
Thanks for posting this Kantz. The more I read and research, the more I've become convinced Judaism and Christianity are simply eclectic religions with their own twist on the religions that preceded them. S&F.

Am I the only one who keeps refreshing the page anticipating an update from Kantzvelt?

Love your threads!

So you see an inherent truth?

a reply to: Klassified

Judaism and Christianity are simply eclectic religions with their own twist on the religions that preceded them.

But then they pretend that they aren't, and cover up the facts of where they came from. Seems dishonest to me.

a reply to: Rex282

Masterfully done, but...you were a bit late to the game. Did you miss the memo?

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Rex282

Masterfully done, but...you were a bit late to the game. Did you miss the memo?

Unfortunately the memo always says the SOS.....denying ignorance is a non stop game when there is so much of it and is so effing ignorant...Play ball!!

a reply to: Kantzveldt

In an effort to buy a little time while I look into this some more and mount an argument one way or another, I offer this for consideration. This position by Jeremy Rifkin, On The Empathic Civilization is what I favor over any promises of immortality.


Zoroastrianism was the state religion of Achaemenid Empire(550–330 BCE) and subsequent Parthian(247 BC–224) AD and Sasanian empires. The Judeans and Samaritans would have had direct or indirect (Jewish writing) influence from Zoroastrianism for 520 years by the time the region became a client of Rome under Herod the Great.

So if there was a Jesus walking around talking about things like eternal life, resurrection, kingdom of god, life of the age to come, plenty of people would have had some recognition of these concepts.

But Christianity did not speak of anything like "in a thousand years will come ... and in 2000 years will come ...". Rather, Christianity and its Christ, and Judaism which developed along side of it presented themselves as end-all/be-alls until the "age to come".

Roman and Parthian wars lasted hundreds of years separating West from East. Knowledge of Zoroastrianism was suppressed and forgotten in the West. And Islam suppressed it in the East beginning in the 700s. According to Wikipedia Zoroastrianism only made its appearance in English in 1643. Oxford English Dictionary records 1743 as the first occurrence.

Another artwork to look at. The School of Athens, by Raphael,
1509–1511.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
A great revelation that i would like to discuss here is that the Biblical Apocalyptic tradition does not source back to the Hebrews

Zoroastrianism was written by the hebrews (Like the Book of Daniel in which the word "70 angels" was substituted for "70 weeks", there are some substitutions detracting from the interpretation).

The Zoroastrian dogmatic chronology counts twelve thousand years from the beginning of the spiritual creation to the renovation of the world, in four ages of three millenniums each. The revelation to Zoroaster and the founding of the true religion fall at the beginning of the last age, the appearance of Shaoshyant at its close.

(Word Substitution, not years, or millenniums)
TWELVE TOTAL
God, Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ
Holy Spirit, Earth, Curse (which is death)
Satan Bound 1000 Years, Satan Spiritually Dead 1000 Years, Satan Loosed 1000 Years
3 Days of Darkness (Counted as 3) ("A Day for 1000 Years, A 1000 Years for a Day")

(Satan was Bound to the Holy Spirit before Creation, then Satan is Bound to the Earth and the Holy Ghost, finally Satan is Bound to "Star Wormwood in the Earth" for 5 Months --- the 3 Days of Darkness is literally a summary of the 3 divisions of the judgment for Satan in this universe under the gospel)

Zoroastrian tradition envisions three future saviors, one for the end of each thousand-year period that comprise the last 3,000 years of the world. All three will be born of maidens, conceived while their mothers bathed in a lake that miraculously preserved the seed of the prophet Zoroaster himself. The first will be named Hushedar, the second Hushedarmah] and the third will be the, who will lead humanity in the final battle against falsehood

(Word Substitution, not years, or millenniums)
THREE SAVIORS
Lazarus came out of Abraham's Bosom (Abraham and not Adam marked the Homosapien, the Holy Spirit did not create mankind, the Holy Ghost did)
Jesus Christ came out of the Holy Spirit (Dove Descending, Jesus came from Star Wormwood/Star Bethlehem)
Antichrist reigns for 5 months (also comes from Star Wormwood, he is reborn)

The story of the Saoshyant's conception and early life are described in Denkard 7.10.15ff as follows: Thirty years before the decisive final battle, a maiden named Eredat-fedhri ("Victorious Helper") and whose nickname is "Body-maker" will enter a lake . Sitting in the water, the girl, who has "not associated with men" will receive "victorious knowledge." Her son, when born, will not know nourishment from his mother, his body will be sun-like, and the "royal glory" of the Khvarenah will be with him. Then, for the next 57 years he will subsist on only vegetables (17 years), then only water (30 years) and then for the final 10 years only on "spiritual food."

(Word Substitution, not years, or millenniums)

Last 10 Angels of Daniel 9 are slain, marking the first one when the 42 Days of the Great Tribulation Begins (Ten Kings with No Kingdom, because the Heavenly Temple has FALLEN, the Fig Tree Leaves of Matthew have FALLEN)

30 of Joseph (Luke 3:23 Jesus and Joseph 30 Years ... parable for the 12,000 days of Joseph in Revelations of the Antichrist's Lifespan)

17 for Sabbaths 7th Day Sabbath, which is from Creation to Star Wormwood. Then the 8th Day Sabbath which begins with the 5 months of Star Wormwood (the flood of fire not water).

57 for SEALS The 5th SEAL is when the "Temple Stones of the Great Tribulation Fall", the Moon is engaged and the final synchronization of the "Cross of Hendaye" begins. The 7th SEAL is the last seal that is opened when the 3 Days of Darkness are finished, then the 5 Months of Star Wormwood is the "Silence in Heaven",because the 7th Trumpet is not blown

(there should be a good level of extermination seen in the news soon, because the level of force was good recently)

a reply to: pthena

Holy wow, I have seen that painting before, but never zoomed in like that. The detail is ridiculous. Any idea what is written on the sides of the books in Plato and Aristotles hands? I dont know if it would be english words... Amazing painting, so much intricate detail at every point.

Not really. I could say farts are different from the gas inside your belly and it could be true or it could not be true. Depends on how you look at it. What you are stating is simply a speculation as your opinion proves you do not have a proper education on the views you're trying to paint into a non-credible product. But that's the progressive thing to do, move away from the wisdoms of old ones established. Soon people won't care about Ghandi and just consider him a wierd spiritual person.

a reply to: pthena

a reply to: ImaFungi

Plans within plans and the inter-relationship of numbers i guess, the Hebrews in the Book of Daniel and also seen in Revelations concerned themselves with periodics of 3.5 x 360 =1,260 days or years, that doubling up to 2,520, these numerics trace back to the cult of the Sumerian Moon God Nanna;

he cows are driven together in herds for him. His various types of cow number 39600. [His young cows and calves] His fattened cows] number 108000. His young bulls number 126000. The sparkling-eyed cows number 50400. The white cows number 126000. The cows for the evening meal are in four groups of five each. Such are the various types of cow of Father Nanna.

His wild cows number 180000. The …… cows are four. Their herds of cattle are seven. Their …… herdsmen are seven. There are four of those who dwell among the cows

The Herds of Nanna


We can also recognize this in terms of the diameter of the Earth and Moon combined 2160+7920=10,080 in terms of units of miles, so 3960 would be the radius of Earth consisting of various types of cows, there are 220 units of 36" in a furlong of 7,920" also, so it can be established then that the cows are of the Earth...as one might expect.

They also concern themselves with 126 and 252, were 252"=7 yards and 2520 miles=Mean Earth/Moon radius, 5040 being the mean diameter, the bulls are concerning themselves with the mean, 18 and 36 is the wild cow factor. ..so just a way of saying you know how many cows are required to jump over the moon.


a reply to: Rosinitiate

Yes an inherent truth that there is indeed a master plan and that this commenced around 12,000 years ago, of course the question is whose plan was it...


a reply to: Rex282

It relates to the unveiling of the master plan over time and all the jollity along the trail, nobody said otherwise, except you.

Hamlet's Mill: An Essay Investigating the Origins...
www.amazon.com
› …
› Mythology & Folk Tales
› Mythology


Hamlet's Mill focuses on the symbolism of Old World mythology and the transmission of knowledge through archaic language. Refering to mythologies from Sumer, ...




Zoroaster(ism) is one of the ingredients...their 12,000 year epoch in 4 cycles of 3,000 yrs each is a subset of the 'Great Year' or ~26,000 year precession of the earth

a reply to: zardust

There are fundamental differences between the emphasis of Zarathustra and his doctrine of free will in choosing truth over falsehood as the path that determines one's fate and the Buddah's consideration that self identity was an illusion and impediment to Oneness, he saw no value in giving up one's most precious possession the soul and encouraged all effort to nurture it.



a reply to: Klassified

Yes it was down to their geographical position, rather like the Phoenicians and their eclectic artistic wares which even though they contain influence from here there and everywhere are still recognizable as Phoenician, even if only by their generally poor quality.


a reply to: pthena

Yes true enough, the principle of the one stop shop.

a reply to: St Udio

Indeed, as i mentioned this dates back to the age of Virgo.


Virgo-Neolithic Dawn