Killer trys to kill again More proof that life should mean LIFE.

originally posted by: paraphi
I am opposed to capital punishment and laugh in the face of people who think guns would actually help!

Yeah, many of us might have thought that way until it hits close to home.....our children, mothers, sisters or ourselves. How easy it is to dis severe punishment or retribution of the horrible behaviors of others when it isn't affecting us. How quickly the tune changes when it's our head that is being smashed in, our bodies and unborn being violated and murdered.

There is, as far as I am concerned, no real proven rehabilitiation in some of these cases. So we are just guessing that time in prison and some councelling has fixed them and then make the rest of us guinee pigs as to the sucess of this? I also find that although they are trying, shrinks are in a dangerous place, I mean you see a cure for warts, but the brain is a dark place and results at best are not water tight IMO to let people out.

Until they can show what makes a killer and how they can treat this, then throw away the key.

a reply to: Forensick

The governor of my home state, Washington, decided after he was elected to place a moratorium on the death penalty. At the time I was pissed at this blatant maneuver to appease his voting base, and to infuse his personal bias on a sentencing option that had been approved by the voters many years ago.

I used to be pro capital punishment until I read studies about the subject and it's effects on repeat offenders, ultimately proven to be ineffectual as a deterrent. I viewed it as an act of vengeance and retribution by the state and families affected by killers. If life truly meant life, no parole, no sentences rescinded(unless proof evolved to clear one sentenced), I could see that as a viable alternative to the death penalty.

When it comes to that small sub-set of killers that commit acts so against society, so heinous in scope, and will continue to be a lethal threat to all, I can see no recourse but capital punishment. In that instance I don't view it as vengeance or retribution, rather removing a true monster from ever raping/torturing/killing again.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: crazyewok

I'm betwixt and between over capital punishment myself. It's kinda hard to undo it, if a mistake is found in the court proceedings...

But instances like this, that seem so very cut and dried? I don't have a real issue with it. Or life should indeed mean life. Tack on some hard labor to that so we get something out of our tax monies.

Thats my concern too mistakes. One dead innocent by accident seems to high a price.


But I agree with hard labour too and life without parole. In someways death penalty is a easy way out. I would rather have that than life without parole in a grotty prison.

I think of it the same way as vaccines. Vaccines CAN hurt people, but far more are helped than hurt.

Capital punishment may hurt innocents, but far more innocents are protected.

originally posted by: StoutBroux
How quickly the tune changes when it's our head that is being smashed in, our bodies and unborn being violated and murdered.

Luckily I live in a country where violent crime is quite rare, so don't need a gun to protect myself.

I remember reading a headline, double child killers kills again and I thought, how the hell can that happen?!

I mean, that is fecked up.

I'm on the fence with the death penalty, I would rather pay private health insurance, reduce NHS funding and size and increase police and prisons if that is the problem (and tell UNHR to stick it). Perhaps the Tories will do this.

a reply to: Forensick

"Perhaps the Tories will do this"

The Torys may very well do something along those lines but the people who end up in these facility's, which will most lightly be private prisons will not be the premeditated murders, rapists and sex offenders of our society.

They will be protesters, or people who our government deem possibly subversive, not to mention the petty criminals, shoplifters, junkies and the people who should be in mental health facility's.

As to reducing funding regarding our NHS any further, really???

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I think of it the same way as vaccines. Vaccines CAN hurt people, but far more are helped than hurt.

Capital punishment may hurt innocents, but far more innocents are protected.

If you kill someone you're a murderer. No state should have the right to kill even one of it's citizens, no matter what the reason may be. And especially the US should be ashamed, because there are statistics that prove that innocent people got killed A LOT! This is a very medieval approach.

The right answer has to be to maybe use them for research, if they agree to it. Psychological research on how when and why such abnormal desires develop and people loose all attachment to be able to kill others. I am sure we could learn a big deal about prevention and get a few more hints on how our society is so crappy it creates these monsters.
But eliminating the result won't touch the root of the problem.
They are still humans, with severe issues and maybe shouldn't be allowed to walk amongst others without being observed, but just giving the state the license to kill is wrong and it can be exploited. There are stories of Cops planting evidence to jail someone, that's the biggest threat ever and creates further mistrust between civilians and officials, this can't be the right answer to fix the mess.
Nobody is pure evil, they all started as innocent babies.

a reply to: andy06shake

Not to go off topic, what I meant was to reshape the NHS somehow, make people who can afford it pay for it through insurance and stop the foreigners free loading off it.

I didnt mean cut funding to run it into the ground trying to get the same service for less.

Im not saying I know the answer, what I was saying is I would be happy to contribute through a type of medical insurance to get more funding to the NHS whilst reducing the service to the free loaders and foreigners.

It works fairly well here is Aus.

possibly the "professionals" who allowed this release should be liable for their mistakes
not hanging the guilty...
and
hanging the inoccent

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Stupid comparison.

Vaccinations are entirely voluntary.

Comparing vaccinations to capital punishment is ridiculous at best.

a reply to: Forensick

If we were to tax the correct people in the correct manner the United Kingdom would be able to pay for our prison system and national health service. Problem is if that to where ever happen a significant percentage of those very same people would most lightly find themselves behind bars due to tax evasion never mind who knows what else.

As to our immigration problem and foreigners free loading/benefit tourism. I tend to agree with you simply because the U.K cannot handle never-mind accommodate the refugee population she already has. Only way to address the issue is to close the doors until such time as we can address our own socioeconomic and homelessness issues. After all charity begins at home.

a reply to: crazyewok

Wonder if society knows it is at risk for helping to create these monsters---


Nahhhhhhhh.....you all are perfect and do no wrong.

"Behold, the man has become as one of "us" to know what is good and what is evil"

a reply to: andy06shake

benefit tourism.

People actually coming into the country on tourist visas for medical care? That's what you're referring to? That hadn't occurred to me before...

originally posted by: andy06shake
If we were to tax the correct people in the correct manner the United Kingdom would be able to pay for our prison system and national health service. Problem is if that to where ever happen a significant percentage of those very same people would most lightly find themselves behind bars due to tax evasion never mind who knows what else.

Tax evasion permeates society. Ever paid for something "in cash", like your builder, gardener, plumber etc? Regardless, the top 1% earners pay 30% of the taxes, so they do contribute significantly to society. Not everyone is a tax evader. Ooops, we're going off topic here!

On crime and punishment. How about the inability to deport criminals - some pretty sick ones - because it would be against their human rights. Decisions like that diminish human rights for the real needy because it injects cynicism into the subject.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: andy06shake

benefit tourism.

People actually coming into the country on tourist visas for medical care? That's what you're referring to? That hadn't occurred to me before...

We lose about 3 billion to that.......

Us British can be suckers at times.