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For All Intents and Purposes? Nope!

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posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: Cuervo




Most of the people viewing her as some spokesperson or rolemodel aren't really involved in the transgender community.


I hope that you're right. I hope that outsiders don't judge the LGBT community by cosmetic standards, and especially, I hope that LGBT don't judge themselves for being able to meet the bar of the beauty standards that Caitlyn Jenner has set for herself.



By your rationale, any famous person would be a bad role model because they likely didn't live a life of struggle or poverty and therefore can't relate to the average person. And I somewhat agree. Jenner is not a perfect role model but nobody asked her to be one.


I would agree, except in this instance, Bruce Jenner set out as, and saw himself as a role model who, he thought, could really help make a difference and "open the door" for all kinds of people.



I'm loathe to keep posting this crap, but this episode, within the first 2 minutes, sets out to set Bruce Jenner up as a role model. I'm sure that a clinical psychologists helped put it all together, the way the family grieves for the loss of their father and the MAN they knew. And, I'm sure that the process being shown will help a lot of individuals approach their family about these matters.

But, I'm bothered by the process presented in this episode, that requires the supposed death of one individual and the birth of another. I'd rather that Bruce could have transitioned into Caitlyn without killing Bruce. I don't know, maybe that's the best way to go about for some people.




posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 05:21 PM
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As a member of the LGBTQ community, and someone who has some gender Fluidity i can't talk extensively on Transgender issues... but i will say that i am not a fan of Her, or her being labeled a 'spokesperson' for our community. there are X amount of Transgender people in this world who have been attacked, killed, abused, suicide. abandoned just for living their truth. Caitlyn didn't have to go through that, yes she dealt with the mental depression of her authentic self being denied, but as a "Celebrity" she gets Magazine Covers and Interviews.

Now, it's hard for people to truly understand the feelings of a Transgender Male/Female, you are born with the soul of the opposite Gender, i'm sure she wanted to experience those feelings that you mentioned, i'm sure she felt she needed too and she should, but was denied that by being born with the wrong body. it's not her fault that she couldn't experience it.



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 05:47 PM
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a reply to: windword
Amen!

Hot damn Honey!
Preach it!

That was an absolutely beautiful rant!

*superduperhugs*



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 11:33 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: windword

While I agree with much of what you said, keep in mind that the Kardashians are only famous because people keep talking about them.

Ignore them...ignore Jenner...ignore all of this stuff.

That is the best way to deal with it, because you're not drawing attention to it.

I do subscribe to the belief that he may really have felt this way his whole life and that he's now staying true to himself, but I just don't care, ya know? He's inconsequential to me and my life, as are 99% of celebrities.

Ignore it.



Ah, c'mon, don't degrade yourself! You're a solid ATSer, I'm thinking more like 99.99%+ of celebrities are inconsequential in your life.


I know the '99%' is more just a figure of speech, but the first thing that came to mind was that 1% would be an awful lot of celebrity influence in one's life.

99%/1% is just thrown around far too easily these days (like folks who think 3+ million Americans are secret society 1%er billionaire oppressors. )



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: beezzer

What, you can't multi-task? TSK! I bet if you tried you could've at least farted in that 90 seconds!



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:44 AM
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a reply to: windword

For all intents and purposes this nut job goes in the hall of shame next to wife killers, okay, maybe he didn't kill anyone, oh wait didn't he just have a car wreck, either way, it is a shame that what was once such a respectable Olympic hero has now become a laughingstock along with the entire Kardashian Klan.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 01:58 AM
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a reply to: windword



you Ms Jenner, are just another Kardashian pulling the ultimate publicity stunt for attention. You don't come anywhere close to representing the struggles and triumphs of everyday LGBT individuals


Yep.




edit on 3/6/15 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 09:46 AM
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I just saw this headline on the Huffington Post's front page.

Caitlyn Jenner Talks Breaking The Kardashian Tradition Of 'K' Names

Haha. More evidence of the superficial mindset, being that "It's all about appearance", on display here. Newsflash Caitlyn, just because you substituted a classy "C" for you family's traditional "K", "Cait" is still pronounced "Kate". Obviously, this is all about (written) appearances. Caitlyn or Katelin, it still sounds the same. "KAH"!


"It's one of the hardest things in life — choosing your own name," she said. "One way she attempted to come up with ideas was by watching the Miss America pageant."


Yeah, I know that's how most parents pick their children's names, by watching the Miss America Pageant and/or Toddlers in Tiaras. Those girls have the BEST names! LOL

Caillyn/Bruce, why not a name like Brenda, keeping your "B", or even a name like Evelyn, that really deviates from the "K"? Why didn't you consider a sentimental name, perhaps a name that memorialized some influential female figure in your family, or from your past, someone that had a positive and meaningful affect on your brave new choice?

Listen, I understand that a name is a very personal thing, and there's nothing wrong with the name "Caitlyn". It's just silly the way you and your PR firm has presented it as a well thought our break in tradition from the Kardashian "K". It's really not, it just appears to be.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: windword
But, for all intents and purposes, no, you haven't earned the badge of post menopausal Womanhood.


She didn't actually say she had... And despite what she HASN'T experienced as a woman, she HAS experienced a multitude of other emotional, physical, psychological and mental struggles that 99% of women have NO CLUE about.



The media is lauding you as a positive force for the LGBT community. No, your not.


I beg to differ. Putting her story out there is absolutely beneficial for many in the LGBT community. She has said MANY times that her purpose is not to represent anyone, be a spokesperson or role model. She's not doing this for anyone but herself and has said that.

video.newsfixnow.com...
www.advocate.com...

Most don't have access to the resources she does, and her experience is far from the average LGBT person, but just the fact that she's in the news and proud about her transformation is something that gives LGBT people hope. It's a step toward a more inclusive future.



But, all I see is a plastic "Ego Woman" super star whose never earned her fame for anything other than being part of a circus act.


With all due respect, I don't think you're looking deeply enough.

You can hate her all you want for being famous for no reason. (People despise the Kardashians for that but seem to have no real problem with the Housewives, Duggars, Duck Dynasty, Tori and Dean, Cake Boss, Christley Knows Best, the Shahs of Sunset, and the hundred other "reality" show celebrities.) But to discount her personal struggles and say she doesn't help the LGBT community are mistaken, I believe.
edit on 6/3/2015 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 11:30 AM
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I think that she's braver coming out as a republican than a woman.

lolz



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic




She didn't actually say she had...


Fair enough.


And despite what she HASN'T experienced as a woman, she HAS experienced a multitude of other emotional, physical, psychological and mental struggles that 99% of women have NO CLUE about.


Meh, I'm not sure about that. Anyone serious about their own self examination has experienced some sort of crisis of identity, and sometimes even people who are basically sleep walking through life get jolted awake by some sort personal crisis. No one is immune, but everyone's experience is different, I agree. And, while some people are more sensitive and have harder times adjusting than others, it's not common or normal to have an entourage assisting one through every aspect of transition.



....She has said MANY times that her purpose is not to represent anyone, be a spokesperson or role model.


I disagree. She has said many times that this transition may be the most important thing that she's ever done, and that she sees herself as opening the door for many. She being lauded and portrayed as a role model. But she's "standing on the shoulders of giants", in more ways than one; Media giants that have picked up her story for profit, and the true martyrs and leaders of the transsexual community who didn't have access to an easy road to "supermodeldom".

Caitlyn Jenner is, in great fanfare, slated to receive the "Arthur Ashe Courage Award" next month. She's signed on as a spokes model for MAX Make-up. But, there are homeless trans youth at risk, for being courageous enough to come out as who they are, facial hair, boob and all be damned, who have lost, not gained, everything on account of their bravery. It just doesn't seem right.

It reminds me of Obama's Nobel Peace Prize!
We'll just have to wait and see what Caitlyn does with new found fame.



Most don't have access to the resources she does, and her experience is far from the average LGBT person, but just the fact that she's in the news and proud about her transformation is something that gives LGBT people hope. It's a step toward a more inclusive future.


Maybe. I hope so. I hope that it doesn't backfire and have the opposite effect, setting trans individuals up to be judged on an unrealistic standard of appearances, and not the quality of their character.


Chase Strangio, a staff attorney at the American Civil Liberties Union who specializes in trans issues, said that the key mark of success would be whether Jenner’s huge new platform could be used to highlight the “horrible discrimination and violence” trans people face. “So many people are dying because they cannot access the healthcare that Jenner as a wealthy white woman was able to get.”

Strangio added that it would be good to hear from Jenner an acknowledgement of the long history of campaigning and advocacy in the trans community that led up to this moment. “There has been incredible resilience and advocacy from people who came before Caitlyn and made her visibility possible.”

Luckett, who kept her first name in a successful attempt to sustain the love of her father through transition, said that “everyone who transitions is sitting on the shoulder of giants”. She name-dropped Marsha P Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, two prominent transgender activists.

“Caitlyn Jenner has a whole lot of power. It’s what she does with it that matters,” Luckett said. “A huge number of Americans are on her side. Now let’s really start opening up hearts and minds.”


Caitlyn Jenner: transgender community has mixed reactions to Vanity Fair reveal

Thanks BH, always appreciate your input!


edit on 3-6-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: Darth_Prime

Thanks for you response!




there are X amount of Transgender people in this world who have been attacked, killed, abused, suicide. abandoned just for living their truth. Caitlyn didn't have to go through that, yes she dealt with the mental depression of her authentic self being denied, but as a "Celebrity" she gets Magazine Covers and Interviews.



Yes, THIS ^^^^

Her fame, it seems to me, allows us to overlook those who are suffering for their truth, because we're distracted and in awe of her transformational beautiful outward appearance.
edit on 3-6-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: windword


I think you do a great disservice by making the LGBT issues seem to be ego based and so superficial as to make it seem that it's all about glamour and appearances, when that couldn't be any further from the LGBT truth.


Identity is all about ego

What is being a real woman all about? I wish someone would explain it to me - I've been one for all my life and I kind of thought we were all the same and different

I've paid all my dues. Do I get some kind of badge for that?

I certainly hope so

:-)

I still wouldn't screw Ms. Jenner out of her badge though - she may have paid a different kind of dues - but makes no nevermind to me...

Welcome to the club Caitlyn! About damn time - we've been expecting you

Cookies and tea in the tree-house in 10...

Or, a nice chardonnay. Whatever



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis



Identity is all about ego


True. But, ego isn't who we are. I learned that when I was injured and told I could never work at the job that sustained me for all of my adult life, ever again. I would never be THAT professional identity again. It was traumatic.




What is being a real woman all about? I wish someone would explain it to me -


I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just relax and be yourself, and know that you're a woman whether you're wearing make-up or not. Make-up and fancy clothes is NOT what makes a person authentic.

Caitlyn needs to focus on what being a transgender women is all about, not what being a woman is all about, as that seems to be her emphasis so far.



Welcome to the club Caitlyn! About damn time - we've been expecting you

Cookies and tea in the tree-house in 10...


Can Darth_Prime come too? I'll be there, in my fat lady "mom" jeans, with no make-up on. Some of us will be in pig tails and some of us will be dressed to the nines.

I would love to share a cup of tea, or glass of wine, with Caitlyn (and you and BH too!). I would discuss the hardships of aging women in the workplace and the discrimination that they experience. Most 66 year old women don't get "Cover Girl" modeling jobs when they find themselves in "transition".

I'm sure that Caitlyn will share with us how persecuted she feels now that she can't use her same locker anymore, at the exclusive golf club that she belongs to, nor will she be able to dine in the "Men only" dining room anymore.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: windword


I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just relax and be yourself, and know that you're a woman whether you're wearing make-up or not. Make-up and fancy clothes is NOT what makes a person authentic.

Not so fast windword :-)

That was sarcasm - quite obviously. I know who and what I am


Caitlyn needs to focus on what being a transgender women is all about, not what being a woman is all about, as that seems to be her emphasis so far.

I think that's a little like telling Ms. Obama what kind of black woman she should focus on being. Not our call

Nobody should be able to tell Ms. Caitlyn how she should show her wares. I have known a lot of women during the course of my life - and many of them have been outrageously feminine and showy. Women who had the luxury of being born women and intended to show that off any way they saw fit - so long as it was possible to do so gracefully. Or not. Several took it way past the expiration date - but, more power to them

I have a friend I've know since I was 6 - and she has been mistaken for a transvestite on more than one occasion. She is into big hair and a boatload of paint, gravity defying shoes - the works. She is lovely too :-)

Some of us (myself included) lean more towards minimalism - but even I will ruby up my lips sometimes, undo that top button, and hike up my skirt

Ms. Jenner missed her chance to be a girly girl. Or, a tomboyish girl - she missed all of that opportunity to be who she feels she is. We weren't denied any of that. If this whole subject is to be taken seriously - then she should feel free to pose buck naked on the cover of Vanity Fair, fully glammed, painted gold and rolled in glitter

She earned her fame as a star athlete - everything that came after that is what happens when you're famous. I don't begrudge her her fame, celebrity, glamor or money - any more than I would hold that against Cher, Beyonce, Tina Turner or Lady Gaga


Can Darth_Prime come too? I'll be there, in my fat lady "mom" jeans, with no make-up on. Some of us will be in pig tails and some of us will be dressed to the nines.


As far as I'm concerned - all gals welcome. Tall gals, short gals, old, young, conservative or commie, straight or LGBT. So long as the cocktails last :-)


Most 66 year old women don't get "Cover Girl" modeling jobs when they find themselves in "transition".

Lucky girl :-) Life isn't always even Steven

edit on 6/3/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 05:41 PM
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a reply to: windword


I mean she has the opportunity to help educate on Transgender Issues, Laverne cox is much more of a 'Figure' in the Transgender Community. reality Shows, Magazine Covers.. they don't highlight the need to Deny Ignorance on the entire Queer community.

I mean look at what Mike Huckabee Said


“Now, I wish that someone told me that when I was in high school that I could have felt like a woman when it came time to take showers [after gym class],” Huckabee said in the video published by World Net Daily.

“I’m pretty sure that I would have found my feminine side and said, ‘Coach, I think I’d rather shower with the girls today,’" he joked. “You’re laughing because it sounds so ridiculous, doesn’t it?


Regardless of political affiliation, that is pure ignorance of Trans issues...

we in the Queer Community (LGTBQ) don't have true representation, Neil Patrick Harris is not a voice, Milie Cyrus is not a voice, and Caitlyn Jenner is not a voice when they are more concerned with their publicity and fame, they are afraid to be 'Outcast" of the Holly Wood elite.

I'm Gay, Gender Queerish, Drag Queen, Rainbow Flag waving activist... where is my Magazine Cover? i've been through Hell, abuse, homelessness etc. so have Millions of other queer Kids throughout Herstory, where is our spotlight?



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis




Not so fast windword :-)

That was sarcasm - quite obviously. I know who and what I am


Hmm....I thought of it as a rhetorical question. I know you're secure in who you are, or at least you come across that way. I answered, just because. ;-)



Caitlyn needs to focus on what being a transgender women is all about, not what being a woman is all about, as that seems to be her emphasis so far.

I think that's a little like telling Ms. Obama what kind of black woman she should focus on being. Not our call


I disagree. Caitlyn has a penis, Ms Obama doesn't. Caitlyn is in transition. Ms Obama isn't.

To be clear, I'm not advising Ms Jenner of what kind of woman to be, rather that she should focus on who she is and who she is becoming, regardless of what she's wearing. That's what my problem is about this whole thing in the first place. Transgender people aren't looking for a role model to just step into supermodel jobs. They're looking for someone that they can relate to, and that they can look up to and point to and say "See, she/he did it." I don't believe Caitlyn Jenner is that person.



Ms. Jenner missed her chance to be a girly girl. Or, a tomboyish girl - she missed all of that opportunity to be who she feels she is. We weren't denied any of that. If this whole subject is to be taken seriously - then she should feel free to pose buck naked on the cover of Vanity Fair, fully glammed, painted gold and rolled in glitter


I agree, and I don't have a problem with her expressing herself in anyway she sees fit. But, she's NOT the new normal. Not by a long shot, not for us and not for your typical transgender individual, whatever that means. When Caitlyn Jenner says "I'm the new normal" it should qualify that statement, saying she is only the "new normal" for herself.



She earned her fame as a star athlete - everything that came after that is what happens when you're famous. I don't begrudge her her fame, celebrity, glamour or money - any more than I would hold that against Cher, Beyonce, Tina Turner or Lady Gaga


That was a long time ago, and I would wager that 99% of the people who follow "Keeping up with the Kardashians" and follow Kim K's, Kloe, Kylie and Kendra Jenners' tweets have no idea that Bruce Jenner was a "Wheaties Athelete" or what a "decathlon" even is.

I Am Cait Trailer

I can't embed this video, but in it you'll see Caitlyn's stunning realization of the pressure woman have to deal with in keeping up their appearance, daily! She talks about her life changing experience of having professionals do her hair and makeup, while painting her lips. Wait, what? Isn't this the same guy who was the patriarch of all those Kardashian women for all those years? How could she not know that?

Transgender people, on a daily basis, are trying to negotiate survival, not their hair and nails. Caitlyn Jenner is probably in a room with a hundred dresses, right now, trying to decide which one to wear when she accepts her "Arthur Ashe Courage Award"!




edit on 3-6-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 05:58 PM
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a reply to: windword



Transgender people, on a daily basis, are trying to negotiate survival, not their hair and nails. Caitlyn Jenner is probably in a room with a hundred dresses, right now, trying to decide which one to wear when she accepts her "Arthur Ashe Courage Award"!


This is true, many Transgender Male/Female transition alone. they don't have the opportunities to get Airbrushed on a Magazine Cover, or professional Make-up,Hair,Clothes etc.

she said she didn't want to look like a Man in a dress, and i agree, No trans person wants that (or a female in male clothes) and while Caitlyn is going to get her share of hateful comments, she wont have to walk around during transitioning being ridiculed for not Passing.

I am no way faulting Her for living her life, Get it, live your life gurl, but understand you are a wealthy privileged person, not a 'Warrior' for the cause



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: Darth_Prime




I mean look at what Mike Huckabee Said


I saw that! What an out of touch idiot!



I'm Gay, Gender Queerish, Drag Queen, Rainbow Flag waving activist... where is my Magazine Cover? i've been through Hell, abuse, homelessness etc. so have Millions of other queer Kids throughout Herstory, where is our spotlight?


Indeed!

ETA


I am no way faulting Her for living her life, Get it, live your life gurl, but understand you are a wealthy privileged person, not a 'Warrior' for the cause


Exactly!


edit on 3-6-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: windword


I saw that! What an out of touch idiot!


But he actually believes himself, which is scary

Sorry for Semi-ranting in your rant

edit on 3-6-2015 by Darth_Prime because: (no reason given)



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