It amazes me when I read about US healthcare.A question for you USAers.

originally posted by: newWorldSamurai

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: newWorldSamurai
I have wanted to go in business for myself for some time now but health care costs are a serious deterrent. What could I possibly contribute as entrepreneur?

I can relate to that, I've been self-employed for a few years now, and healthcare costs/insurance are not an issue I have to concern myself with, just how much money do I need to earn, and how much of it do I have to pay in tax.

I could need a heart bypass, a prosthetic limb, and a replacement hip and I would have no worries about how I would have to pay for it. The fact I am a British citizen is my ticket to the treatment.

People here are in financial ruin because of similar conditions. You can lose your house if you have a bad accident and are not insured,underinsured or simply can't pay the typical 20% that still comes out of your pocket even with coverage.

That is the kind of situation that makes me sad for you normal guys like me on the other side of the Atlantic.

originally posted by: newWorldSamurai

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: newWorldSamurai
I have wanted to go in business for myself for some time now but health care costs are a serious deterrent. What could I possibly contribute as entrepreneur?

I can relate to that, I've been self-employed for a few years now, and healthcare costs/insurance are not an issue I have to concern myself with, just how much money do I need to earn, and how much of it do I have to pay in tax.

I could need a heart bypass, a prosthetic limb, and a replacement hip and I would have no worries about how I would have to pay for it. The fact I am a British citizen is my ticket to the treatment.

People here are in financial ruin because of similar conditions. You can lose your house if you have a bad accident and are not insured,underinsured or simply can't pay the typical 20% that still comes out of your pocket even with coverage.

In addition (and now I'm ranting), someone please tell me how this is best system we can possibly have. That this is what is best for everyone. I worry about being in that position one day. It's not fear mongering or some doomsday scenario, it's a reality that happens all the time. One of a thousand links I could post -link

It's simple, I would abolish insurance companies, all of them completely absolutely equivocally. Then I would charge a 10% income tax for healthcare. The health providers would not bill the customers, but would bill the state, and the state would pay them

This sounds great in theory...BUT

Where is the impetus for research? For innovation? If not to make some bucks....

This is the problem inherent with Socialism, strict Socialism. Capitalism motivates and inspires progress and innovation.

That said, I don't think there is any reason we can't have both, in moderation. However this current blend is a mess. Simply put, the current calculations put the monthly cost of healthcare well above any kind of feasible cost (even Obamacare) to many Americans.

Meanwhile, drug companies and insurance companies reap record profits (especially after mandating required insurance!), so pardon me for not crying for them....

originally posted by: Prezbo369
look after number one!

Damn right what's wrong with that?

a reply to: ketsuko

Oh stop. I've said at least twice that no system is perfect in this thread already.
I personally haven't bitched about the NHS in a long while, my son will be 'asleep' having an operation tomorrow afternoon on the NHS and he waited 2 weeks for it. I don't and have not bitched about the free healthcare system in the UK.

I say again though, I wish everyone in the world had the UK system of healthcare at least as a basic benchmark for all.
Do you not agree that would be a lovely world?

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Prezbo369
look after number one!

Damn right what's wrong with that?

It indicates you do not care about the health of fellow humankind.
I call that cold and barbaric, but hey what do I know?!

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Our only health insurance should be a catastrophic policy you can take out at a person's birth that goes with them throughout life. It would have different premium costs based on how much you would be expected to cover on a service before it would be called catastrophic. Obviously, the higher that amount is, the cheaper your monthly premium would be.

So it would operate more like car insurance where you cover your maintenance costs out of pocket but big stuff like crashes are generally taken care of.

I could see provisions for adding a rider if you are diagnosed with a chronic condition to cover costs associated with that.

And this policy goes with you for life.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ketsuko

Oh stop. I've said at least twice that no system is perfect in this thread already.
I personally haven't bitched about the NHS in a long while, my son will be 'asleep' having an operation tomorrow afternoon on the NHS and he waited 2 weeks for it. I don't and have not bitched about the free healthcare system in the UK.

I say again though, I wish everyone in the world had the UK system of healthcare at least as a basic benchmark for all.
Do you not agree that would be a lovely world?

Given your tax rates and VAT rates ... no.

a reply to: grainofsand

Wrong It means that I will not rely on anyone but myself.

What is so cold and barbaric about that?


The more people rely on their governments to take care of them the more rights your governments will take from you.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ketsuko

Oh stop. I've said at least twice that no system is perfect in this thread already.
I personally haven't bitched about the NHS in a long while, my son will be 'asleep' having an operation tomorrow afternoon on the NHS and he waited 2 weeks for it. I don't and have not bitched about the free healthcare system in the UK.

I say again though, I wish everyone in the world had the UK system of healthcare at least as a basic benchmark for all.
Do you not agree that would be a lovely world?

Guess what? Prior to Obamacare, I didn't bitch about my health care either.

When I needed neck surgery, it took about four days from the time the surgeon got my final test to the time I was on the table, and it could have been a little faster but my husband needed to make some work arrangements.

But see what I mean about pissing contest?

The systems are different, and we both liked them.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ketsuko

Oh stop. I've said at least twice that no system is perfect in this thread already.
I personally haven't bitched about the NHS in a long while, my son will be 'asleep' having an operation tomorrow afternoon on the NHS and he waited 2 weeks for it. I don't and have not bitched about the free healthcare system in the UK.

I say again though, I wish everyone in the world had the UK system of healthcare at least as a basic benchmark for all.
Do you not agree that would be a lovely world?

Given your tax rates and VAT rates ... no.

Oh, I don't see it as a problem covering my taxes, and I would be prepared to pay more if it improved the healthcare system for UK citizens. Everyone I know feels the same if it was earmarked for healthcare, but maybe we are odd to be happy funding medical treatment for our people out of work?
I prefer the caring world in the UK and I am happy with our taxation levels, even willing to pay more if it is accounted for.
I still party on weekends and can afford to leave the country if I wish.
Maybe your priorities are different to mine?

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: grainofsand

Wrong It means that I will not rely on anyone but myself.

What is so cold and barbaric about that?

It is cold and barbaric in my opinion because you do not appear to care about those who are not as strong or resourceful as yourself.
Yeah, that seems cold to me.

originally posted by: ketsuko
The systems are different, and we both liked them.

But only one system has many people who cannot get treatment because they cannot afford it.
That is shameful in the 21st Century.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: grainofsand

Wrong It means that I will not rely on anyone but myself.

What is so cold and barbaric about that?

It is cold and barbaric in my opinion because you do not appear to care about those who are not as strong or resourceful as yourself.
Yeah, that seems cold to me.

I have no problem helping out my fellow man on my terms not because the government tells me I have to and if that makes me cold and barbaric then so be it.

a reply to: boymonkey74

So If you had the chance would you pay more income tax to have an NHS type socialized medical care? or would you prefer to have OB care or how it used to be?

I'd rather remove all of the government regulations, subsidies, and taxes that drive up the costs of healthcare.

a reply to: grainofsand

How about the 50 million or so people in the 15%, were they fine as well?

You would do far more good for poor people by not trying to fix issues that government creates by appealing to government.

a reply to: grainofsand

"I will not rely on anyone but myself"

Yeah... real island, there.

I'd like to see them perform an appendectomy on themselves... not impossible, buuuut...

And plenty of folks die(d) needlessly from a lack of funds/ healthcare, here in the U.S.

The people "okay" with that situation just never saw it up close and don't care... as long as they and theirs are fine.

Wonderful.

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: grainofsand

Wrong It means that I will not rely on anyone but myself.

What is so cold and barbaric about that?

It is cold and barbaric in my opinion because you do not appear to care about those who are not as strong or resourceful as yourself.
Yeah, that seems cold to me.

I have no problem helping out my fellow man on my terms not because the government tells me I have to and if that makes me cold and barbaric then so be it.

What? Someone turns up at your door needing a heart transplant and you'll help them then? How about a hip replacement, can you afford that as well?
What is so wrong with a societal pot of money which is funded by all of us humans in our society with a view to helping each other?
Your mate needs a prosthetic limb? You would prefer to cover than just general taxation for all?
...still sounds cold to me because you know full well you need the wider community to cover the expensive health costs of the minority.
Perhaps you care little about fellow man. I don't, I care lots.

a reply to: grainofsand
Lol.
So being forced to pay makes you a better person?

Then by your logic I'm a saint because I always pay my taxes.

a reply to: thesaneone

May make the society better in the long run though eh?.
I have to agree with sand but I do think it is because we are in the UK and you are used to your system and we are used to ours plus we have more socialist leanings over healthcare in the UK.