Tulsa, Oklahoma Man Shot, Accused of "Shoving" Trooper...

A man shot dead after being told to leave a flooded area had grabbed a trooper and shoved him to the ground, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol said Monday.

At a news conference, the agency showed a police video in which two men — the Fischer brothers — tramp through water toward a pair of police officers. OHP spokesman Capt. Paul Timmons said Nehemiah Fischer, 35, knocked over one trooper before being shot.

Fischer’s father, J.R. Fischer, told The Associated Press on Monday that the behavior didn’t sound like that of his son, who was an assistant pastor at a Tulsa church.

Source

I just stumbled across this article on Google News. Is it me or does this sound extremely fishy? The troopers arrived to either help the men away from the flooded area or they saw the men there, then told them to leave the area.

How being helped or even told to leave a flooded area leads to a man being shot and killed by police, is beyond me. The man did not have a weapon, but apparently "shoved" an officer. Remeber when that was called resisting arrest and got you put into the slammer with your day in court?

Now, if you "shove" an officer, they instantly play judge, jury and executioner more often than not. According to the article, they aren't even sure which of the officers fired the fatal shot (because of this I am going to go ahead and assume they both fired their weapons). One officer has 8 years experience, the other one has 1 year.

Same old story, day in and day out here in the USA. This happened a few days ago (29 May) and it hasn't been posted, there are no riots or outraged citizens on the news, no "religious" leaders calling for action even though the guy was an Associate Pastor at a Tulsa, OK church.

I wonder why?

ETA this article from the local Tulsa news. Both officers did in fact fire their weapons.

Local Tulsa News Channel

a reply to: lovebeck

Also Monday, Fisher's brother, Brandon, was arraigned on charges of assaulting an officer and public intoxication. The attorney said Brandon told authorities the men had been drinking whiskey while fishing earlier.

If these guys had only been smoking reefer instead of drinking whiskey none of this would have happened.

I want to see that video, see what his shove really looked like.

Eta: Well that looks pretty bad, he just went straight for the cop.

If the officer had a body camera....


Another one bites the dust.

originally posted by: lovebeck

Same old story, day in and day out here in the USA. This happened a few days ago (29 May) and it hasn't been posted, there are no riots or outraged citizens on the news, no "religious" leaders calling for action even though the guy was an Associate Pastor at a Tulsa, OK church.

I wonder why?

Are you implying that white communities are somehow better because they let cops shoot them without protest?

There is a whole host of reasons these guys could have near the flood waters.

Men of the land. Catfishing or other old world ways.

I can't understand how new officers are so blind to the fact that some people instinctively know a little more about the lay of the land than they might think. Maybe the trooper was rude and arrogant, I've met a few of those over the years. Some of those boys can get downright mean when talked to a certain way. Men have tempers so I'm guessing there was some contention about communication.

You don't just barge into a situation without understanding what you're dealing with before hand. The fact that the shove was enough to warrant a weapon drawn is enough to tell me that these men were of large stature, and probably uncommonly strong.

The usual assumption of folks is that hillbillies are all thin wired up types. Nothing could be further from the truth. Even so, some folks are a lot smarter about things than most people assume, so unless there was some sort of mutant lake monster lurking in the waters, I fail to understand how two dudes - regardless of size and stature - checking out the water at a reasonable depth is even an issue.

The officer who fired the shot probably did so because he feared for his life or the life of his fellow trooper. The problem is, new cops on the beat bark orders and are vicious in tone on occasion. Sometimes that sound enough can trigger the sensibilities of certain old world people and set them off quickly.

Large or lean, those folks can move slowly and defensively or swiftly...the article doesn't take these considerations into it's reporting, so we can't just jump to conclusions that they were "hopped up on whiskey" or whatever nonsense you suburban bootlickers tend to think of people.

America was not founded on the principle of people who couldn't handle themselves in the wilds....all to often a gun is the weak mans solution.

If i saw two bears fishing in the stream, and started yelling at them telling them they had no right to be there and one charged me to the point I had to shoot it - whose fault is it really?

The bear for reacting instinctively or me for yelling at the bears in the first place?

Seriously.
Think about it.

The article does say a gun was retrieved and belonged to one of the brothers, the man who died, it doesn't say though that the gun was brandished or anything like, nor does it say the video shows that. It does say that the officers are on admin' leave. Neither was the surviving brother charged with anything, despite the main text. So, if there was any deadly encounter by the dead man, it's not on the video.

a reply to: lordcomac

as we all know, there can be more than one piece of info transmitted at the same time. an example, body language and verbal language.

now, i find the following statement to have 100 percent been conveyed by the cop, just by working that profession

cop - "i am a LARGE source of income for the government. you will do what i say, or i will kill you"

i don't know anybody who is going to take kindly to that.

what i would have thought...... ok. the officer is attempting to make money for the government...... by taking my freedom........ and if i try to stop him at all costs from making money (ROBBING) me for the government (which has robbed me several times over with mandatory insurance, fines, SSI i will never see..... etc. etc.), he will kill me.

yeah. please explain this one to me?

Just because WE can see the troopers are wearing uniforms because the light is behind them, doesn't mean these two guys could. Maybe they thought some yahoo's were yelling at them at first.. I dunno, we'll see when the video gets released..

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES


If i saw two bears fishing in the stream, and started yelling at them telling them they had no right to be there and one charged me to the point I had to shoot it - whose fault is it really?

This guy wasn't a bear. He was a human being who was responsible for his own actions.

The video speaks for itself. Regardless of what the troopers had said to the men prior to the start of the video clip, the posture of the cops in no way warranted being physically attacked. The posture of the dead guy, on the other hand, was positively slopping over with aggression (if not drunken idiocy) when he approached the two officers.

Attacking a cop like that is just asking to be shot. If it's true that he was holding the officer under water, then he was begging for it.

Either way, his services are no longer required on this planet.

originally posted by: muchmadness

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES


If i saw two bears fishing in the stream, and started yelling at them telling them they had no right to be there and one charged me to the point I had to shoot it - whose fault is it really?

This guy wasn't a bear. He was a human being who was responsible for his own actions.

The video speaks for itself. Regardless of what the troopers had said to the men prior to the start of the video clip, the posture of the cops in no way warranted being physically attacked. The posture of the dead guy, on the other hand, was positively slopping over with aggression (if not drunken idiocy) when he approached the two officers.

Attacking a cop like that is just asking to be shot. *If it's true that he was holding the officer under water, then he was begging for it.

Either way, his services are no longer required on this planet.

What video is that?? and the *rest, please enlarge for us!

a reply to: smurfy

It's in the link.

The officer yells that he is an officer and the guy just goes straight for him and calling it a shove is nice.

I will say a taser probably could have done the trick as I don't like it when some one has to die for thier actions.
Now if he really was holding the officers head underwater then not sure what else they can do.

The news reported the two brothers were in the water trying to get their truck out.

But yeah, whatever happened to "assaulting an officer", "public intoxication" and all the other misdemeanors that don't call for the death penalty?

Yes, I saw the vid. Without a doubt he assaulted the officer, but his death certainly wasn't justified, unless he had a weapon he was about to use, that we don't see in the vid.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: smurfy

It's in the link.

The officer yells that he is an officer and the guy just goes straight for him and calling it a shove is nice.

I will say a taser probably could have done the trick as I don't like it when some one has to die for thier actions.
Now if he really was holding the officers head underwater then not sure what else they can do.

Yes I see the space at top, there is no video for me though, and that's strange?
I don't know about the underwater thing though, maybe a return shove, sounds pathetic to me?

For those that can't see on the link

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

The video I watched showed initial contact, after one of the brothers made a bee line for the officer. What cannot be seen clearly is the suspect's actions after starting the physical confrontation. Did he try to incapacitate the PO, or go for his gun? Did the deceased mans actions necessitate lethal force?

Until the incident is clarified, it's a little early to chalk it up to a "death sentence" meted out by over-reactive LE.

originally posted by: muchmadness If it's true that he was holding the officer under water

i doubt it is.

a reply to: muchmadness

My god that is the truth.

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: lovebeck

Same old story, day in and day out here in the USA. This happened a few days ago (29 May) and it hasn't been posted, there are no riots or outraged citizens on the news, no "religious" leaders calling for action even though the guy was an Associate Pastor at a Tulsa, OK church.

I wonder why?

Are you implying that white communities are somehow better because they let cops shoot them without protest?

Nice....Not taking the bait. My OP doesn't imply anything of the sort...

Looks like this guy asked for it. I hate to hear about these stories, but the video clearly shows a lack of judgement on the part of the person who was shot. I mean who the heck walks quickly towards a police officers and runs right into cop, looks like he wanted a confrontation. To me the police did what they could, for all we know the police officer thought he was going for his gun. Stupid stupid stupid guy, asked for it IMO