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Question about the religious God

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posted on May, 31 2015 @ 08:56 PM
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Would you accept the probability of the existence of God ( general term) if it would be stripped away of all it's religious context?

To make it more clear...:Let's assume there is a God(general term) and he created us with the aim of simply.....existing.Why in so many religions there is the ideea of a reward or punishment in the after life,why do we need Heaven or Hell and all it's various religious and ritualistic context to accompany such ideas. If completely unaware of concepts like Heaven or Hell or other similar beliefs from any kind of religion would humans go down the drain and loose any sense of morality? Would we actually become our own executioners or would we learn to eventually thrive and progress? Christian God,Muslim God, the Greek Gods, Celtic Gods etc....you name them
. It seems that God's all over the place,different places,cultures and over a long period of time untill present day. Why does God(general term) so very often has to be accompanied by various rituals,incantations, whatever you prefer calling it across such a vast array of religions? Would the ideea that there is a God(general term) that created us for his delight so to say and not for any kind of purpose whatsoever be so sad as to invoque the need for religious rituals,incantations,especially in the Christian and Muslim faith but not only.
edit on 31-5-2015 by leopayaso1987 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 31 2015 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: leopayaso1987

Sounds like you're proposing a Deist perspective. Simply that there is a creator, but It is uninvolved in our affairs.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: leopayaso1987

I just finished listening to and reading a book by Dr. E L Martin that actually answers your question / 's It's called The People History Forgot . It is all about the Mystery Religions and follows the history of the people from ancient Babylon up til today . Well worth the read . www.askelm.com...



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 09:28 PM
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a reply to: amtracer

That is what I personally believe,yes. But I'm not making a statement or trying to change no one's belief system. I'm just interested in seeing why would anyone would reject the idea.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 09:31 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Thanks,I'll give it a read one of these days.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 10:03 PM
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a reply to: leopayaso1987

I also believe there is a Creator. one who created us and all of the known and unknown lifeforms on this planet but with purpose. We are much to complex a species to be made for whim.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: leopayaso1987

What you're describing is Theism. You can still be a Theist without following a religion (Source). Many people are non religious, in fact studies on the demographics of atheism have concluded that self-identified atheists comprise anywhere from 2% to 8% of the world's population, whereas irreligious individuals represent a further 10% to 20%. (Source 1, Source 2, Source 3).

Some would even state that Buddhism is not a religion, but instead a philosophy. If we take that into consideration, that is an additional 6% of the worlds population. So anywhere from 18%-34% of the world is non-religious.

It's quite clear that your concept is already widely accepted



EDIT: I am an Atheist, although the reason I have a lack of belief in any god is due to evidence. Religious texts make no difference to me if one is more or less likely to exist
edit on 31/5/15 by Ghost147 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 12:12 AM
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a reply to: leopayaso1987



Would the ideea that there is a God(general term) that created us for his delight so to say and not for any kind of purpose whatsoever be so sad as to invoque the need for religious rituals,incantations

It's kind of sad for me to think of the sadness of a god like that. If he could he would probably be a fish sometimes to enjoy being a fish. And when there were dinosaurs to be a dinosaur and do dinosaur things, even a flying dinosaur, that could be fun.

When people came along, he could be a human and even live a very long time helping humans learn things. And he could even go from one group to another, teaching things learned with one group to another group, and even be a traveling merchant/teacher. That way he wouldn't be so sad and have to see people grow old and die.

And then people would make religions to remember when the god was with them. Sometimes the rituals would be happy because of happy memories. But sometimes bad disasters could happen to a group of people, and even though the god wasn't there and didn't make the disaster, people would make rituals as if the god did it, then they would be sad and even mean rituals.

And we don't know where the god is. But I think happy rituals would be better than mean ones, because maybe then he won't have to be sad.

That's what I think could happen if a god made life.
edit on 1-6-2015 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 05:10 AM
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originally posted by: leopayaso1987
Why does God(general term) so very often has to be accompanied by various rituals,incantations, whatever you prefer calling it across such a vast array of religions?


Why do people perpetuate the traditions of the culture they belong to?

Why do some Spanish unleash a horde of bulls in the streets and flee from them or throw a bunch of tomatos at each others?

If you can answer that you can answer your own question.




originally posted by: leopayaso1987
Why in so many religions there is the ideea of a reward or punishment in the after life


Because as you probably figured it out yourself already, religions, like philosophies, are social cultural frameworks teaching the basis of moral behaviors.

Like cultures are diverse, religions and philosophies are also diverse.


Why do some religion teach about punishment for the evil ones and reward for the nice ones? Because it is a desirable trait in society that people should be nice and helpful to each others, and not commit crimes. Whether you enforce this by superstition or by law, the need and results are the same.

Regarding the current position of the Church regarding hell, it is the following (which I share): hell is not a place. Hell is a state of mind of voluntary separation from the divine. So it's not a judgement from god, it's a judgement from one-self. What we can refer to as shame or regrets.

When you do something immoral and don't seek and get forgiveness for it, you risk to dwell in shame and regrets (as well as the hostility of society) which is very much what one could call "hell".

Sometimes it's good to remember that many (if not all) of the teachings of religions are allegorical and about the psyche/soul and not literal things.
edit on 1-6-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 05:21 AM
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a reply to: Ultralight

Thank you for your reply.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: Ghost147

I agree that I feel the same about religious texts in general. None would make any difference in my mind or convince me to be religious. I do also respect your position as an atheist. So the idea of a God(creator in it's most general term possible),someone/something that would have made us with the purpose of just existing and being humans with our good and bad sides,but without any kind of interest in what we may or may not think,eat,do,belive does not appeal to you at all? What difference would the existence of such a God make in your life if let's say tomorrow you would find out,it would be undoubtfully proven that indeed exists? Would that make you a different person all together or would still have your moral values and intelectual capacities and so forth? If u say u don't believe in any God because of the lack of evidence,I'd like to ask you what type of evidence would you require? Would u give me a specific example?
Don't take my questions as an attack to you being an atheist,that's not my intention. Hearing oppinions about this fundamental questions was always interesting for me. I'm here to have a dialog and not a debate.
edit on 1-6-2015 by leopayaso1987 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 05:57 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

When you ask why do some Spanish people release bulls on the streets and then flee from them or throw tomatoes at eachother?

To be honest I don't know and don't think anyone does know why EXACTLY we do things like that,or build bombs,go to the movies and all the other things we as people do. My best guess is that we do it because we are human. I don't think there is any practical purpose behind things like throwing tomatoes at eachother or releasing bulls in the streets.

I'm sorry if I might missunderstand your question,but, are you saying that because we are human we need a God that has to lay down a moral foundation for humanity?



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 06:11 AM
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a reply to: pthena

I'm sorry,first of all I have to say that English isn't my native language and I'm still learning. I have to say I struggle a bit in understanding if you agree with my point of view or not. You say "But I think happy rituals would be better than mean ones because maybe then he won't have to be sad". I never said that God was sad or would have to be sad. Maybe by using "sad" I was using the wrong term. Would the ideea that God(general term) created us for his delight,without the need to intrude in our lifes,or thoughts,or after life or without religious rituals(making the sign of the cross),would that not be satisfactory enough? Let's assume he just made you to exist so that you could do good or bad,have a freedom of choice. Assume that he/she/it would have thought: ok human,I made you...now go and have a ball,live your life and we'll see how it turns out,you are free to do anything you want,surprise me! Forget about concepts like heaven or hell or afterlife,the bible,quaran etc.
edit on 1-6-2015 by leopayaso1987 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 06:22 AM
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a reply to: leopayaso1987

My point is that the origin and explanation of most traditions is lost in time and traditions are just repeated inside a culture as a way to bond people together.

Most religious rituals and stuff are cultural traditions so it's kind of futile to try to understand why people do them. People do them by imitation of their culture, to belong.

No we don't need these traditions to act morally, but some people do it that way because they were raised in that culture.

Also I find it funny you point at Christian and Muslim religious traditions, when there is one older than these two and which contains 10 times more strange rituals and laws that seem to make even less sense.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 06:33 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

Thank you for your reply.
I wasn't pointing exclusively at muslims or christian religious traditions I was just trying to make an example. My question was directed to all kind of people not just christians and muslims. I wasn't trying to point the finger at someone in particular, and when I thought of starting this thread I was hoping to get answers from all kind of people,christians,muslims,atheists and so on,whatever their religion may or may not have been. I want to get different answers and oppinions not to acuse,defend or convert anyone.
edit on 1-6-2015 by leopayaso1987 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 06:44 AM
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a reply to: leopayaso1987

I know.

Basically what I'm saying is religions won't make much sense to you unless you were raised into that culture or make a real effort to understand it. Many people here criticize religions based on their understanding of it, which can be quite incomplete and caricatural. For example I don't really understand why so many Americans put a flag on their house because it's not part of my own culture.

Rituals are loaded with meaning so you need to understand these meanings first.

And again no religions and rituals are not necessary for teaching morality. But they neither are they superfluous.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 06:57 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

Out of personal curiosity can I ask you if you are religious or an atheist?



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: leopayaso1987

Raised catholic, atheist/agnostic until around 30. Currently kind of pantheist agnostic, def not religious. But I talked to many religious people to understand their beliefs and history better and for many it makes a lot of sense. I still dislike fundamentalism very much though, but fundamentalism is marginal among religious.
edit on 1-6-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 07:20 AM
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a reply to: leopayaso1987
I recognize that we all exist as stepped-down modifications of Unconditional Conscious Light - and that Light is NOT separate from any conditional modifications. However, we have forgotten this fundamental connection to Consciousness-Light (Reality), and over eons of time, have created the myth of the Creator-God - in many different variations, but almost always as a separate God apart from us.

How can God or Reality be separate from anything given Reality is necessarily indivisible?

So no, I cannot buy into an objective Creator-God idea or some Great Other that created all of this. These are all man-made myths based on some need for an all-powerful security blanket somehow in charge of everything, and ultimately to blame for all of it. Funny how this sounds like what children do with their parents.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 07:28 AM
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originally posted by: bb23108
However, we have forgotten this fundamental connection to Consciousness


Actually many believe the same as you, including religious people


There's are 7 billions of people and the same number of different beliefs. It's a mistake to imagine religious people automatically read religious texts literally. Actually many cosmologists/biologists/scientists are also Christians and have no issue reconciling Christians spirituality with scientific facts.


The common error many people make is to imagine religions are concerned with the physical and material aspects of life when in fact they are concerned mainly with the spiritual.



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