Satellite images show clearly that Russia faked its MH17 report

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: greyhat

According to Putin the Russians aren't involved. Why would a Russian aircraft violate Ukraine's airspace?

Vodka induced Ukrainian paranoia? Maybe someone had a nightmare about a "Russian invasion"...

a reply to: greyhat

They're either radar guided or they're IR guided. Radar guided tracks on the highest radar return, and as soon as it detects the target within a certain range it detonates. IR does the same thing tracking on a heat source. A radar guided missile is not going to fly past almost the entire target to detonate somewhere it might miss.

The shrapnel is going to go forward and straight to the sides. Detonating traveling in the same direction as the target, and detonating forward is going to minimize the potential damage if it's off by even a fraction of a second. It's going to detonate where the damage is maximized, which would have been near the aft fuselage as soon as it detected the target was within range of the proximity fuse.

a reply to: greyhat

Even Putin knows that Russia still operates the Buk-M1. Here he is during 2014 watching his forces going through the routine missile testing the day before the Victory Parades. Note the captions on the screen "BUK-M1". Russian Buk units have also shown on social media that the 9M38M1 missiles are still in the inventory.

See within the first minute Putin watching a Buk M1 launch.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: greyhat

They're either radar guided or they're IR guided.

So you don't know. Ok.

a reply to: greyhat

So you don't know.

DO you?

a reply to: greyhat

The Buk is radar guided. Nice try at twisting though as it was in response to this:

Not every rocket follows heat sources, target aquisition methods differ.

They, missiles, are either radar guided or IR guided, and they're not rockets. Everything I said however is accurate for either guidance method.

Some have an optical tracking system, and home on jam, but both of those are secondary to the radar and IR tracking.

a reply to: tommyjo

Belarus or Russian Rockets?

I have not read the whole thread, so sorry if already posted.

The german News Magazine "Der Spiegel" was one of the first german medias to report the Bellingcat "Analysis".
They reported it as facts, without asking questions

Just a day later they posted an interview with a picture analyst who basically said

Bellingcat betreibt Kaffesatzleserei
Roughly: Bellingcat is reading tea-leaves. And the "analysis" is just rubbish.

Next day they had the decency to post an op-ed in which they apologized for posting the Bellingcat report as truth, and stated that they should have done a better job in fact checking:
Was wir aus der Berichterstattung über den Bellingcat-Report lernen (What we should learn about reporting Bellingcat-Report)

And now comes the bombshell: Bellingcat-Autor war hauptamtlicher Stasi-Mitarbeiter
English; Bellingcat Author was a fulltime Stasi Employee !!

The Bellingcat Author who uses the moniker Timmi Allen was working full time for the Stasi (Staaatssicherheitsdienst of the former DDR (east germany)!

Interesting development on the whole Bellingcat report. And very sad, that most medias just posted the first story (Bellingcat report) because it fits the agenda.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: greyhat

Everything I said however is accurate for either guidance method.

It isn't. If you fire a SAM you point to a calculated future point in the flight path of the target aircraft. And you try to hit the cockpit in order to switch it off. Shooting a SAM is not like a Tom Cruise dogfight.

a reply to: svetlana84

Well the Stasi was the secret police for East Germany before reunification. E. Germany was controlled by the USSR so im not sure why the stasi issue is being raised.

After all Putin was also stationed in E. Germany as KGB.

a reply to: greyhat

Wrong. You point it at a point in space, it then turns its seeker on and tracks on the largest return, either heat or radar. It doesn't track on the cockpit, and only hits there if fired from the front, and the proximity fuse detonates it near there. A missile won't track on the cockpit because there's not enough return for it to guide on.

There is also no need to track on the cockpit to "turn it off", with a non MANPADS missile because the warhead size will shatter just about any large plane it hits, no matter where it hits. Shooting at t the cockpit would make it like a Tom Cruise movie.

Just like shooting a gun you go for the largest target. A warhead that is a couple hundred pounds of high explosive is going to ruin your day no matter where it hits.

a reply to: svetlana84

I already went over this report from hackwrfactor on page 9 in the thread. No one seemed to want to comment on my post.

In short the report did say that the dates were in fact faked and that adobi PhotoShop was use d. It went after the SPA part of the bellingcat report. I included quotes from that report. It by no means says that Russian sat images were not tampered with

originally posted by: svetlana84
I have not read the whole thread, so sorry if already posted.

The german News Magazine "Der Spiegel" was one of the first german medias to report the Bellingcat "Analysis".
They reported it as facts, without asking questions

Just a day later they posted an interview with a picture analyst who basically said

Bellingcat betreibt Kaffesatzleserei
Roughly: Bellingcat is reading tea-leaves. And the "analysis" is just rubbish.

Next day they had the decency to post an op-ed in which they apologized for posting the Bellingcat report as truth, and stated that they should have done a better job in fact checking:
Was wir aus der Berichterstattung über den Bellingcat-Report lernen (What we should learn about reporting Bellingcat-Report)

And now comes the bombshell: Bellingcat-Autor war hauptamtlicher Stasi-Mitarbeiter
English; Bellingcat Author was a fulltime Stasi Employee !!

The Bellingcat Author who uses the moniker Timmi Allen was working full time for the Stasi (Staaatssicherheitsdienst of the former DDR (east germany)!

Interesting development on the whole Bellingcat report. And very sad, that most medias just posted the first story (Bellingcat report) because it fits the agenda.

Some quotes from the report you mention.

" I do not want to judge here, wether the MoD pictures are fake or not."

" the date of the picture released by the MoD is indeed wrong which should make us question: Why?"

"Conformation of images proving that the dates were faked " Digital Globe IDs: 19.06.2014: 10300100338C0B00 02.07.2014:
1030010034CD4700

Compare the clouds. Yo can also see the cutover area (the area with the removed trees) in the 02.07. preview pic."

" Someone added the seen annotations and therefore he needs some kind of editing software. Well, in this case Adobe Photoshop"

a reply to: alphastrike101

Some quotes from the report you mention.

" I do not want to judge here, wether the MoD pictures are fake or not."

Where Did you find that quote, i cant find it in the Spiegel article?

" the date of the picture released by the MoD is indeed wrong which should make us question: Why?"

"Conformation of images proving that the dates were faked " Digital Globe IDs: 19.06.2014: 10300100338C0B00 02.07.2014:
1030010034CD4700
Again:
Where Did you find that quote, i cant find it in the Spiegel article?

"Compare the clouds. Yo can also see the cutover area (the area with the removed trees) in the 02.07. preview pic."

Yes there are clouds in some pics, none in others. Then again the no cloud pics come from google earth, and even they admitted, they don^t always have the right date.
So comparing makes it difficult.


" Someone added the seen annotations and therefore he needs some kind of editing software. Well, in this case Adobe Photoshop"

Kriese: Eine Fehlinterpretation. Sie sagen: Die Metadaten zeigen, dass die Bilder mit Photoshop bearbeitet wurden. Daraus folge, dass es wohl die Wolken waren, die eingefügt wurden, um etwas zu verschleiern. In Wahrheit beweist der Hinweis auf Photoshop in den Metadaten nichts. Mit irgendeinem Programm mussten die Russen das Satellitenbild ja für die Präsentation bearbeiten. Sie haben Rahmen und Textbausteine eingefügt, als Erklärungen für die Öffentlichkeit. Die identifizierten Artefakte können ihre Ursache darin haben - oder auch durch mehrfaches Abspeichern im JPG-Format entstanden sein.

Short: Metadata shows that PS was used. Bellingcat assumes it was used to put in clouds.
But PS-Metadata proves nothing else than Photoshop was used. Which is the case with all pictures, they edited it for the presentation, putting frames, texts. The artefacts could have come from this editing.


After all: we still can't proof either side. And i don't know who's right, who is wong.
For me the more interesting thing is how the media handled the bellingcat report just as truth before asking any basic questions.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: svetlana84

Well the Stasi was the secret police for East Germany before reunification. E. Germany was controlled by the USSR so im not sure why the stasi issue is being raised.

After all Putin was also stationed in E. Germany as KGB.

stazi
we know who they work for

Ex-Stasi Spy Chief Markus Wolf Hired By Homeland Security?
Political analyst Al Martin, who has in the past proven accurate in getting ahead of the news curve, is reporting that Homeland Security have hired former Stasi head, the 'Silver Fox' Markus Wolf.
...
The US, after years of acting as the world's policeman, has finally revealed itself to instead be the unmarked van that's constantly parked just down the world's street.

www.prisonplanet.com...

information disinformation

a reply to: Danbones

Former Stasi agents are intimately familiar with KGB/FSB personnel and procedures, an obvious asset.

a reply to: Danbones

Well for starters I would stop using Prisonplanet as a source. They do the same thing Russian propaganda does. Print claims and say the info came from a secret / anonymous source.

Secondly my response was to Svetlana84 and the claims made in his/her post, which has absolutely nothing to do with what you brought up.

As for who the Stasi worked for - that would be KGB.

Is it to much to remain on topic? Markus Wolf never worked for homeland security. That claim was made by the former head of the KGB, General Yevgeni Primakov, to the BBC. Markus Wolf died in 2006. even your own source states he worked for the E. Germans / Soviets. Just as Putin is doing now in Ukraine, the USSR refused to grant him asylum when German reunification happened and they cut him loose / on his own.

Now, back on topic.

a reply to: svetlana84

I am quoting the report

" An analysis of the analysis

Life in the Lanzone

On 1. Juni 2015 by Myghty"

Speigel is just a second hand account of the report I am citing. Speigel is getting their information from this report.

The author "myghty" only goes over a few parts of the bellingcat findings.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Yeah because it was reproduced and proved to be unreliable in recognizing errors.

By who...and do you have the info that shows they did it and how they came to this conclusion...because again saying it over and over just doesn't work?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Danbones

Well for starters I would stop using Prisonplanet as a source. They do the same thing Russian propaganda does. Print claims and say the info came from a secret / anonymous source.

Secondly my response was to Svetlana84 and the claims made in his/her post, which has absolutely nothing to do with what you brought up.

As for who the Stasi worked for - that would be KGB.

Is it to much to remain on topic? Markus Wolf never worked for homeland security. That claim was made by the former head of the KGB, General Yevgeni Primakov, to the BBC. Markus Wolf died in 2006. even your own source states he worked for the E. Germans / Soviets. Just as Putin is doing now in Ukraine, the USSR refused to grant him asylum when German reunification happened and they cut him loose / on his own.

Now, back on topic.

if you read you would have noticed
the source was Al martin
as rebuttals go
that was just sad buddy
just sad