How can any American be a proud, patriotic citizen?

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I'm going to have to agree with Quetzalcoat. I do continue to see poor government actions on its own people and in foreign affairs.

Clearly by the responses in this thread the American people disagree with it's government's actions.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yeah we aren't withdrawing troops from anywhere are we? We aren't attempting to overturn the patriot act are we? The American people haven't turned on many of the positions of the American government have we?


By the way congratulations to everyone on Iraq. I agree we should have never gone there in the first place. But I also think that once we were there we should not of deserted the Iraqi people like damn near everyone on the site wanted us to. How did that work out?

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I'm going to have to agree with Quetzalcoat. I do continue to see poor government actions on its own people and in foreign affairs.

Clearly by the responses in this thread the American people disagree with it's government's actions.

This goes to show that there are plenty of Americans that are aware and have integrity beyond hyper-nationalism. This does not, however, disprove your point that there are many Americans who are hyper-nationalistic.

a reply to: Ghost147

How can any American be a proud, patriotic citizen?

Easy-peasy.

Oh sure, it's easy to look at all the horrible things that have been done. And I suppose you could paint an entire country by the horrible things done in the past.

By all means, feel free to do so.

It's just as disingenuous to simply look at all the good things that have been done in the past and paint a culture that way as well.

As for the central question?

I find it very easy to be a proud American. We have the Constitution (which is ignored) The Bill of Rights (which is ignored) but they are ignored by people who also do not like the US. Many who hate freedom are citizens as well.


I am proud NOT because of past accomplishments, but by what we are capable of.

Now whether we do these great things, well, that's always up to interpretation.

a reply to: Ghost147

America is good ...... But......... Self serving, narcissist, ignoramus and deluded wannabe patriotic - master bullshi*ters - (including the government) people living in America is the problem. Same applies to other countries, including my own.

Have a good day.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: Ghost147

Yes my claims about your position are baseless as apparent in another one of your threads .

ATS thread


I really don't have a problem with people to disapprove of America. My problem lays with people that have a track record of it and are incapable of being honest about their opinions .

Here's my honest opinion. The American Government as it currently stands is excessively corrupt. Capitalism does not work as it is just a means of dividing the wealthy from the poor. The choice and actions that the American Government make are atrocious and dishonest. The American People are being suppressed by the American Government in virtually every respect.

That's about it. Every thread I made isn't about insulting the American People or our cultural differences. Believe it or not, everything I've asked is due to something I am merely confused about.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yeah we aren't withdrawing troops from anywhere are we? We aren't attempting to overturn the patriot act are we? The American people haven't turned on many of the positions of the American government have we?


By the way congratulations to everyone on Iraq. I agree we should have never gone there in the first place. But I also think that once we were there we should not of deserted the Iraqi people like damn near everyone on the site wanted us to. How did that work out?

You are correct on all of those points, in my view.

But still, the op is correct that a huge percentage of Americans still seem to not give an eff about anything and have pride even when it is misguided.

So then, the op would be aimed at them, not you nor I.

You know, I've done some bad things myself in this life. Maybe I shouldn't even be proud of myself?

Why cherry pick the bad of our country, and say we have nothing to be proud of? Maybe we're proud that we got out of Britain's control way before you guys did, eh?

Not that we are all out chanting USA, USA! I see that for soccer games or olympics, or something of the sort. But I have never seen people out in the streets randomly shouting USA. But there is at least 3 houses with a flag on the porch per block in the town I live in.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: Ghost147

Yes my claims about your position are baseless as apparent in another one of your threads .

ATS thread


I really don't have a problem with people to disapprove of America. My problem lays with people that have a track record of it and are incapable of being honest about their opinions .

Here's my honest opinion. The American Government as it currently stands is excessively corrupt. Capitalism does not work as it is just a means of dividing the wealthy from the poor. The choice and actions that the American Government make are atrocious and dishonest. The American People are being suppressed by the American Government in virtually every respect.

That's about it. Every thread I made isn't about insulting the American People or our cultural differences. Believe it or not, everything I've asked is due to something I am merely confused about.

Yet you make a thread about the American people and patriotism instead of stating your position on the American government .

This thread as apparent by your last reply is nothing more than bait and switch .

I also will no longer participate in the sham anymore . Your position is apparent through many of your post and your thread history .


Have a nice day .

a reply to: Ghost147

That's just it... To me the government is the constitution and bill of rights, the politicians used to be part of it but they now openly admit to only serving a small portion of the populace.

I can still differenciate between politicians and the constitution.

But ultimately patriotism can only be decided by the individual.

a reply to: Greathouse

Yes, because my confusion in this thread involved the minds of those who blindly follow. Again, I wasn't addressing American people as a whole, just a specific group who would do anything no matter what their governments says or does. I'm not sure how I could have made that more clear?

a reply to: Ghost147
Like most everything else, some things I'm proud of, some things I'm not.

But as far as lifestyle, and the ability to cultivate the one you want? It's great.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I see what you mean and entirely agree. I also really enjoy the concepts within the constitution. The external factors (current politicians) which seem to ignore the constitutions is was really bothers me.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I agree with you there as well. The aspect of freedom is fantastic. It should be a basic human right in every place on earth. However, it seems as if the current government is trying desperately to strip that right, even from it's own citizens

a reply to: Ghost147

Many Americans are also upset with the government... IF we survive the coming economic uncertainty you will see great change I think as we return to our roots.

a reply to: Ghost147
Ghost, I think this is something we actually HEAR more about, than experience personally.

For example, if all I knew about the U.S. was from reading ATS or watching the news, I'd run like hell everytime I saw an American, and certainly wouldn't want to visit here.

Criticisms are often overblown.

the influential "reads" of the last hundred years for me are....
the economic writings of both John Maynard Keynes and the book Das Kapital by Karl Marx....throw in Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler for political and societal control of people, (eerily familiar)....there are others including writings on the creation of the corporation, and various historical political and economic theories.
my take, there have been various attempts over hundreds of years to control the commoner, while at the same time making those commoners feel happy about their lives, all being engineered by the silent "wealthy". the wealthy of the world want to own and control as much as possible before the critical as well as historical point is reached, where the commoner rebels, and takes their treasure and/or their lives.

a reply to: Ghost147

Its the whole Western world on my bookshelf is The history of the decline and fall of the Roman empire you would swear the same cast and crew has re-incarnated and history is repeating itself we are swirling the bowl and by the end of this century will be round the s bend.

a reply to: Ghost147

There is nothing wrong with being patriotic- However blind patriotism is something completely different.

There are some that pity the American citizens because they are unfairly criticized and blamed for their governments actions, however there are some who believe that there is an Iraqi gay rights terrorist on every street corner that poses a threat to the democracy that they know little about.

Loving your nation is a given and if you love your country you should be free to criticize those who run it and not blindly wave the flag.

a reply to: Ghost147

If you have to ask, you likely won't ever really fathom the root of American pride.