If He/She/It exists, does God love the atheists/agnostics?

a reply to: Lightworth
God IS Love, Consciousness, Awareness, Reality, the Conscious Light that is prior to, but NOT separate from anything or anyone. God (Reality) perfectly "Knows" everything and everyone because everything and everyone is a "stepped-down" modification of that same Conscious Light.

It is just that Awareness has forgotten this due to becoming more and more entrenched via association with the body-brain-mind - to the point that it "believes" it is only the body-mind.

So it is not a matter of whether God loves only certain types of people - it's a matter of feeling more and more profoundly the Love that already Is the case, inherently - regardless of what the mess mankind creates in the world may have us believe and feel otherwise.

You can only feel love(d) as much as you can be love.

a reply to: bb23108

I very strongly agree, except for all we actually KNOW, the monotheistic (or close enough) God might just be "God." I always go with whomever and/or whatever REALLY exists in the intelligently unseen (IU), even if it turns out to be just a higher energy, consciousness, chemistry, though I do believe (rightly or wrongly) there's more to it than only the Force in general, if you will. *cue Star Wars theme*

originally posted by: Lightworth
I disagree. The laziness is in expecting whatever higher unseen power(s) and/or whatever super-politician or "Superman" to swoop down with flapping cape (if you will) and save us.

The question was 'If He/She/It exists, does God love the atheists/agnostics?'

And my response was:

Not enough to stop the way they've (non-believers) been treated by theists over the past few thousands of years in its/their name and because of its/their very existence.

Is it lazy to think that if such a creature did love everyone, it'd do everything it possibly could to help us?

God's love is similar to a parents' love for a child. You will love your child (or children) no matter what, even were they to become the most horrific people in the world and do the most terrible things to themselves and to others. You will love them no matter what they profess toward you - love or hate.

That being said you will, in the end, have to deal with them in certain ways in order to be a parent. I may love my serial killer child, but that doesn't mean I will aid, abet or defend what he does ... even if he says he loves me as he does it. I might in fact turn him over the authorities or have to turn my back on him although it breaks my heart.

I may love my addict child a lot, and even though he may tell me over and over how much he hates me for trying to put him on the path to recovery, I still try to get him clean and sober because I see what the drugs are doing to him. In fact, I may eventually have to shut him out of my house and life in order to get the message across that he must come to me before I can help him.

I guess I'm saying that just because God loves us doesn't mean that God doesn't have rules and standards for how we should be whether or say we love Him or not.

a reply to: Lightworth
Would not God or Reality be indivisible by definition? What could possibly exist outside of that indivisible Reality? In other words, nothing is inherently separate from that Consciousness-Light - it only seems that way because of Awareness having identified via attention with a body-mind for eons, and now believes the body-mind's form is what It is.

And yes, there are much "higher" frequencies of Light than here on Earth, but such levels are still stepped down modifications of that same Absolute Light.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Klassified

You have no solid ground to get real understanding, because you believe in an ancient book written by men who told you it was the preserved "word of god". So you will only get men's opinions on a god they might believe in being loving or hateful.

You read to much into a post that does not support your conclusion.

Do you do this with everything you read?

I simply quoted two religious books on someones supposed god having references to loving and hating people, nothing more nothing less.

You either have to have a source to quote on a god being loving or hating or you are left to opinions of men and reading into post things that are not there.

I took your initial statement at face value, and responded accordingly. Did you not intend your statement to be taken literally? Do you do this often with what you post?

Klassified, that was funny.

I think we should all post at face value so it can be taken at face value. By now, you know from my posts exactly what I mean, because we've established it a long time ago what I mean. Yes, we disagree about many things but at least you and I know where I stand.

God is too big to be anthromorphic and therefore even less understandable in personality, characteristics and psychology. If humans are capable of loving and hating at the same time, then why wouldn't God who is bigger?

Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For who has known the mind of the LORD, or who became his counselor 35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again?…

Even Paul couldn't fathom the very God that he spent a lifetime learning about. No Christian can ever say they know God fully or even that they understand anything God thinks or does.

In that way, we can only say that we have experienced love, mercy and grace, not that we can ever know or understand why or how.

Does God love atheists and agnostics? Yes. Does God also hate? Yes.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood. 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaks lies, and he that sows discord among brethren

You have probably met many Christians who are just like this, but then again there are a lot of people who also are.
These are actions that the Bible says God does not like, it says nothing about the person, only what they do.

Arrogance is a terrible trait, and it leads to all kinds of behaviors that are harmful. Perhaps that's how you perceive many Christians to be, and I say that there are many Christians just like this. They are arrogant and spiteful and do things to hurt other people.

So if a Christian does act arrogant and spiteful, saying and doing things that are harmful, then God hates what they are doing. It is that simple.

I can go on with the many verses about actions toward fellow humans, but it could be summed up in what Jesus said

Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Jesus knew this also

Proverbs 21:13 Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.

No Christian can ever truthfully say they know the mind of God, neither can they say they know God more than anyone else, but they are lying to themselves if they say they know God and then arrogantly presume that God loves them more than anyone else.

I am a Christian, you know that, but I would never, ever think or tell you that God doesn't love you less than me, and because I know God (even this little bit that I do know), the greater responsibility is on me to not be arrogant and do harmful things to others.

Sometimes though, some people presume that I think I know more. I know less than what I could ever think I do.

a reply to: ketsuko

Parental love is unconditional. That being said if our God or Gods do exist then from our perspective they seem to be an absentee parent at best and/or the reason for so much woe regarding our world at worst.

Organised religion has a hell of a lot to answer for if you ask me. As to Gods part in the matter? Well he seems to be rather distant if you ask me.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
Is it lazy to think that if such a creature did love everyone, it'd do everything it possibly could to help us?

For all we know, you may be right, as there's no proof of anything regarding what whomever and/or whatever exists in the unseen -- singular and/or plural -- thinks and feels about humanity. Perhaps it's all darker, MUCH darker than I for one want to believe. All I'm saying is, in absence of proof, at least to me, it's best to assume the responsibility on our own for real change and have enough DESIRE (overall) for more and better knowledge and experience than is allowed by the existing (secrecy-based) political world. Or the existing "alternative" of the same old around-and-around hasn't worked, and I would wager never will.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ketsuko

Parental love is unconditional. That being said if our God or Gods do exist then from our perspective they seem to be an absentee parent at best and/or the reason for so much woe regarding our world at worst.

Organised religion has a hell of a lot to answer for if you ask me. As to Gods part in the matter? Well he seem to be rather distant if you ask me.

There comes a point in every child's life when they have to go out on their own.

As for my parents ... or my husband's ... my parents are very limited in what they can do for me aside from offer my comfort. My husband's parents live states away. They really are voices on the phone and are in an even worse position to help us.

Are you claiming that God should be there to keep us from falling every time we stumble? How do we ever learn to walk?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ketsuko

Parental love is unconditional. That being said if our God or Gods do exist then from our perspective they seem to be an absentee parent at best and/or the reason for so much woe regarding our world at worst.

Organised religion has a hell of a lot to answer for if you ask me. As to Gods part in the matter? Well he seem to be rather distant if you ask me.

I am not a parent, so my parental understanding is quite limited here, but let me ask this (and I've seen it), if a parent loves unconditionally, then how does a parent treat a child that is quite rebellious, throws temper tantrums all the time and consistently wants to stick forks into electrical outlets?

Unconditional love also requires patience and punishment, doesn't it? After all, every good parent knows that they have to correct a child, but if that child runs away, then how is that parent going to do any correction?

Did you ever think that maybe it isn't God who is absent, but the person's rejection of correction makes them say they don't want God to intervene and be a parent to them?

I am not a parent, but I've seen good and bad parents...the good parents tend to spend a lot of time interacting with children who love their parents. I've seen bad parents and children, both of whom do not want to take the time to correct nor want correction.

God isn't forcing Himself because God isn't neurotic, God knows that as long as you wish to remain outside in the rain, God can only stand looking at you through the window because He knows that as soon as He brings you inside, you'll run out the door again. And then you get sick but still want to stay out in the rain.

God doesn't hogtie you to the "time out chair". That would be cruel and unusual punishment and then any parent who does that, people would say that is abusive. God isn't being neglectful, God is merely watching you through the window, waiting for you to willingly come back inside, then God will give you dry pajamas and hot cocoa.

Really, God is like that. But the child who refuses to come inside, that's the child's problem.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Oh yes.

That's why I maintain that sometimes the most loving thing you can say is "No."

a reply to: WarminIndy

"but let me ask this (and I've seen it), if a parent loves unconditionally, then how does a parent treat a child that is quite rebellious, throws temper tantrums all the time and consistently wants to stick forks into electrical outlets? "

It depends on the child and the social circumstances i imagine. I will however say this, spare the rod and spoil the child. Love and attention are all that most children desire. Just like anything else in life you do the best that you can and hope for the best.

a reply to: WarminIndy
You know Indy, as one who spent decades as a Christian, and many more observing our species, one thing that still fascinates me is our penchant and capacity for faith.

If you ask me , God will accept a good person, who lived his/her life doing good things for others regardlrss of religious branding before he accepts a cold hearted person who labels themselves a Christian.

a reply to: BeyondBlessed
I don't believe that's correct. IMHO, everything we perceive is based on LOVE. Look around, everything is exactly crafted so that you and I may survive and flourish. Our CREATOR is LOVE. Therefore you are LOVE. But, you are no more LOVE than the worst (seeming) person on the planet. You both would get the same treatment - Unconditional LOVE. There is nothing else. All things that humans view as "evil" are created by humans, not our CREATOR.

If He/She/It exists, does God love the atheists/agnostics?

do you take time to consider and admire the ants you happen across on the way to the grocery store? or maybe you have a cup of tea with the spider you found in the corner of your bathroom. i see our regard for such creatures as being analogous to how a "supreme being" would look at us. we are ants on its apple, bugs in its lunch. if there be any interaction at all, i recommend it be staying out of "his/her/its" way.

I purposely did not read the other responses so as to not color my response.

God does love everyone.

Yes he has a "prime directive" in order to give humans free will
If he/she/it interfered regularly,
then humans would have no free will and simply be slaves or pets to God

God loves us so much he gives us the ability to choose
right from wrong and let's our choices stand,
most of the misery on the earth is caused by earthlings making wrong choices

The "natural disasters" are simply a part of the ecosystem
that has been set in motion and if interfered with
could possibly cause massively more problems than non-interference.
That has been the case so far when earthlings attempted
to "control" natural disasters, greater natural disasters.
(ie HARP and too deep or prolonged fracking)

God loves
and wants in his/her/it fold
the unlovely, the unwanted, the dejected, the heartbroken,
the people who choose badly, the people who make mistakes,
the hurting, the people who know they are imperfect

God said that
he did not come for the healthy (ie the perfect people)
he came for the sick who need him (ie see above)

I am a Christian and most of my friends are Christians
and we are all imperfect and we all know it
because that is what a real Christian is
someone who knows they are imperfect
someone who knows they make mistakes
someone who knows the best they can do is strive to do better
but knows they will fail but is willing to pick themselves up
and try harder to do better next time

If you know a Christian who claims to be perfect
and who "judges" others,
call them on it,
to their face,
in person,
that is what the Bible says to do.
Tell them to to their face and in person
that Jesus did not come for perfect people,
to look it up in the Bible,
that they don't belong to Jesus at all if they
act "holier than thou" or "like they think they are perfect"
and those who harshly and unjustly judge others,
that the Bible says that Jesus actually rejects them.
Jesus loves them,
but he does throw the self-righteous out of his house,
that is what the Bible says.

God loves everyone and wants everyone, no matter how evil,
no matter what, to turn around,
give up their evil or unlovely ways and try to do what is right
God does not expect anyone to be perfect,
only to strive to do what is right.
God wants everyone in heaven.

People who know about God and choose
to keep doing "evil", "bad", also are making
the choice to not live with god in heaven.
They are making the choice, not God,
and God lets them make the choice
because earthlings are not his slaves or puppets
out of compassion.

If one rejects God on earth, (the atheist, agnostic)
then God doesn't force them to live
with him for eternity, he/she/it respects their choice
and lets them live in separation
from God for eternity.

People who have never been exposed to God,
well that is God's choice,
it is for God to judge, not me, and I think
he shows mercy to those who strive to do their best,
and strive to be "good" within
their society.

I also think that anyone who beheads or
tortures or rapes or hurts children (etc)
in the name of God,
has condemned themselves to something
beyond separation from God,
those people condemn themselves
to an eternity of pain and suffering.
Because God is just and in the afterlife
when the justice is served.
I think nothing makes God angrier than using his name
to justify evil or unjust condemnation of others
or pompous judgmentalism that hurts others.

a reply to: ketsuko

"Are you claiming that God should be there to keep us from falling every time we stumble? How do we ever learn to walk?"

To be perfectly frank i im calling he/shes/it whole existence in to question or at least our interpretation, given the lack of evidence to suggest such.

Consider this if we should stumble and fall regarding nuclear war its rather different than tripping over your own feet and scraping a knee while learning to walk. One would imagine i little advice is in order given humanity's penchant for destruction and the level of technological sophistication we are approaching. Thing is if our God or Gods don't turn up soon i imagine Humanity will simply build our own.

Lets just say if God does exist i dont imagine he/she/it will conform to our judeo-christian interpretation.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: WarminIndy
You know Indy, as one who spent decades as a Christian, and many more observing our species, one thing that still fascinates me is our penchant and capacity for faith.

Sadly, some people don't spend time observing our species. Some people live in their own little world.

That's sad but true.

Stay fascinated, because the more you are, the more you will look at that will fascinate you even more. I just replied on another forum about crop circles, and maybe it can apply here as well...

And that is why it is so unbelievable to some people...because it seems to fantastical. Sometimes though, the mundane was once so fantastical that people scoffed at the very idea of....these things....

Sending pictures over the air (television and radio signals)
Communicating in real time over the world (internet, phone and texting)
Cooking food without fire (stoves, ovens, microwaves)
Flying (planes) Replacing body parts to make humans live (think Frankenstein, now think of organ transplants)
A bomb so big it destroys whole cities at once (My God, what have we done? Said the pilots of the Enola Gay when dropping the Atomic bomb on Nagasaki).
There were many things too fantastical to believe, but now we take them for granted.

When the mundane are no longer fascinating, then perhaps we have become too complacent?

I do get fascinated every time I think about the real time communication over the planet. Amazing it is to me.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ketsuko

"Are you claiming that God should be there to keep us from falling every time we stumble? How do we ever learn to walk?"

To be perfectly frank i im calling he/shes/it whole existence in to question given the lack of evidence to suggest such.

Consider this if we should stumble and fall regarding nuclear war its rather different than tripping over your own feet and scraping a knee. One would imagine i little advice is in order given humanity's penchant for destruction and the level of technological sophistication we are approaching. Thing is if our God or Gods dont turn up soon i imagine Humanity will simply build our own.

It wasn't Christians who invented the nuclear bomb.
Exactly who is working on all of this destructive technology?

a reply to: WarminIndy

"It wasn't Christians who invented the nuclear bomb."

No it was Humanity that's responsible for the current atomic age. Christianity simply happens to be one colour of the rainbow.

"Exactly who is working on all of this destructive technology?"

Unfortunately that seems to be us, hence the need for guidance should our creator actually exist and/or care as to our future.