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We are more than just a body

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posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 06:53 PM
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So Im completely on your team, but I dont think this is a good arguing point. By this logic shouldnt I be able to crack open my hard drive and see the pictures I have stored? They have to come from somewhere if I can see them right? When you think of an image, or anything in your memory, you are accessing your brains data storage. A hard drive is 1s and 0s, the brain is something similar.




posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: doctorvannostren

This is my point. Information on a hard drive is not physical just as the information in our brain isn't. Information can be uploaded to a hard drive and deleted from a hard drive just as we are born and die.

Not sure where we're disagreeing to be honest.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 11:16 PM
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Cosmic cinema: astronomers make real-time, 3D movies of plasma tubes drifting overhead



I kind of think we're living souls with a portion of our consciousness inserted into one of these:


edit on 1-6-2015 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 05:32 AM
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I love threads like these, S&F. I'm thinking about this stuff constantly as well.

You can explain the known scientific mechanisms behind things, but that doesn't take anything away from the utter absurdity of existence, the mind-blowingness of the human experience, the indescribable awesomeness of the universe.

Science gives us the how but the real million dollar question is why. I've been searching for this answer my whole life and still do not have it. The hardest part is keeping yourself from believing b.s. just because you need the answer so bad. In my opinion both religion and atheism are both forms of that self medication and ego feeding, any mechanism people can use so that they can stop asking questions and pretend they have it figured out.
edit on 2-6-2015 by humanityrising because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Intuition? It was intuition that told us the earth stood still. Questions you do not know the answers to are not proof we are more than a body. This logic does not lead us to something called a soul. I asked what leads you to believe that we are more than a body, by that I meant evidence, reason, and so forth. It becomes apparent that only dogma could lead one to such a conclusion.

Brains are not the same before and after death. A brain does not get the oxygen, the blood, the metabolites, or is itself damaged, etc. depending on the malady. It is impeded in its operation, like throwing a wrench into gears. In between life and death is dying.

At no point has a soul come into play, and it takes a pre-existing belief to believe it does. Where did you get the idea of soul from if you yourself have not came across it? You didn't invent it as a hypothesis. You were likely told a soul was at play before you bothered looking, and now you are telling others the same. It is circular to assume something is there before reason or evidence hints that it is. It only leads to more questions.

Where does the body end and the soul meet?

Where does the physical body, and the non-physical body meet?

How does a physical body interact with its non-physical parts?

How much more than the physical body is not physical?



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: Aphorism




Intuition? It was intuition that told us the earth stood still.


You are mistaking intuition ... it was ignorance which made people believe the Earth stood still



Questions you do not know the answers to are not proof we are more than a body.


Intuition can give answers that we should not be able to know by logic

My point being ... You have misused the word intuition



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 11:40 AM
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a reply to: Aphorism

Would you answer my questions first? What are immaterial thoughts and emotions? What is intuition? Is it physical? If not then you have the answer to what the soul is, it's made up of many different things just as the body is made up of many different parts. The only difference is the material vs.immaterial.
edit on 6/2/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: artistpoet


You are mistaking intuition ... it was ignorance which made people believe the Earth stood still


Ignorance does not lead one to believe. They were indeed ignorant of the earth moving and planetary orbits, but using what they did know, the opposite of ignorance, they intuited their beliefs. What someone does not know does not lead one to making conclusions. I am not mistaking intuition, and anyone with an elementary grasp on psychology may see that it is you who mistaking both intuition and ignorance.



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Would you answer my questions first? What are immaterial thoughts and emotions? What is intuition? Is it physical? If not then you have the answer to what the soul is, it's made up of many different things just as the body is made up of many different parts. The only difference is the material vs.immaterial.


I cannot answer loaded questions. "What are immaterial thoughts and emotions" is a question that presupposes that thoughts and emotions are immaterial. In areas of reasoning, this logic is circular. It seems you've already concluded they are immaterial before asking the question. The conclusion cannot precede itself in the premises, I'm afraid.

Intuition is an ability to conclude and understand without much thinking. An ability is a capacity for something to perform an action. monkey has the ability to hang from branches with its feet. A chameleon has the ability to change the color of its skin and fire his tongue at food. This isn't because of any immaterial things and substances or souls, but because of the kinds and types of bodies they have. We do not think or intuit or love the way we do because we have souls, but because of the kinds and types of bodies we have.



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: Aphorism

It's not a loaded question at all, thoughts cannot be held in the hand or seen with the eyes, unless of course you're like a Sim with a thought bubble that pops up over your head for everyone to see. Somehow I doubt that.

You're describing intuition as an abstract concept, the abstract is not physical. Do you deny the abstract?



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 09:54 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Of course they cannot be held in the hands. They are not things. They have no being.

Intuition is an abstract idea, yes. Abstract ideas are created by humans, kind of like a myth in a sense, an explanatory fiction. We cannot single out every process in the body that leads to the sensations that intuition is. So a word suffices to symbolize what it entails. But it is not really an object or substance, material or immaterial.



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: Aphorism

The abstract is where the soul comes into play. If intuition is "nothing" then how does it have a word attached to it? Even nothing is something, even if just as an abstract idea.

Do you deny the abstract? If not then you should see what I mean by the soul. If don't see what I mean, you are being willfully ignorant to it in the fear of somehow believing in "dogma" and nothing I say will change your mind.
edit on 6/2/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 10:30 PM
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Oddly he will find a balloon in the brain through stained cross section, but it will be blue, the colour of the stain.
Believe it or not it is true and been demonstrated. It must be a part of the brain that processes images and memory.
However, the balloon neither exists nor does not exist since a balloon is not an intellectual object but veil that cannot be penetrated at thelevel of intellect but only in the level of wisdom. Of course you could just pop it and no balloon!
What happens to the stained cross section then?
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


edit on 2-6-2015 by starswift because: fuller



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 10:41 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Information on a hard drive is not physical just as the information in our brain isn't.

Oh, it's physical all right. It resides in the physical states of the objects in which it is encoded.

The write head on an HDD physically reorients the magnetic particles that coat the disk into patterns that carry the information. The analogous process for the animal brain is not known but we should not assume it isn't there; on the contrary, what we know about the formation and retrieval of memories concerns physical processes.



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: Aphorism


Abstract ideas are created by humans, kind of like a myth in a sense, an explanatory fiction.

Yet natural objects and processes have definable structures and functions. This suggests that our 'abstract ideas' are really conceptualizations of relationships between real, physical things. Structuralism



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: Astyanax

I addressed this in the OP, these things have physical processes associated with them but the effect is not the same as the cause. Those patterns on the disk are not the same thing as the image on the screen. The image is the effect, the patterns on the disc are the cause.

I never denied the physical counterparts. Electrical impulses in the brain are not an image of a red balloon, they are the physical process that leads to the image of the balloon.
edit on 6/2/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2015 @ 11:39 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I addressed this in the OP, these things have physical processes associated with them but the effect is not the same as the cause. Those patterns on the disk are not the same thing as the image on the screen. The image is the effect, the patterns on the disc are the cause.

Come on, you're smarter than that. It's pretty simpleminded to assume that the memory of a red balloon is stored as a little red balloon in a box somewhere inside your head. Why should it be? Nothing in the universe works like that, except a photograph. Did you know that the police in Victorian London photographed the retinas of Jack the Ripper's victims to see whether an image of their murderer had been retained on them at the time of death?

Obviously, they found nothing, because that isn't how a retina works. The red balloon stops being an image of a red balloon long before it reaches the brain. What reaches your brain are changes in electrical activity in the nerves linking rods and cones in the retina to the visual cortex. In other words, the red balloon is broken down into 'bits' of data at the sensory stage.

Besides, even physical reality isn't the same as it appears to be. Your red balloon is actually mostly empty space, in which myriads of specks of something or the other are swirling about, their paths delineated by energy gradients. The 'red balloon' you see is an element of Einstein's 'convenient illusion'.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:12 AM
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a reply to: Aphorism




Ignorance does not lead one to believe. They were indeed ignorant of the earth moving and planetary orbits, but using what they did know, the opposite of ignorance, they intuited their beliefs.


Again you misuse the word intuition ... intuition is a knowing ...
When you speak of "They" they would use logic to inform them based on their observations that the Earth stood still and the stars and planets moved around them ... being ignorant of the bigger picture ... in this way their use of logic would be ignorant ... Ignorant of the full picture ...
Intuition is a short cut in many cases that defies logic



I am not mistaking intuition, and anyone with an elementary grasp on psychology may see that it is you who mistaking both intuition and ignorance.


Sorry but you are misusing the word intuition ... and your back handed insult does not hold water
What you have described is logic only ... which can as in this case/example be ignorance.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:13 AM
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The object that you had opted to describe your theme was quite interesting. I am impressed after reading your introductory paragraph and the techniques used to point out the qualities and personality of a person. We are not just a body. We are the one who possess great thinking capacity. I have read an article displayed in the webpage of UK essay writing service and that article highlights the same theme.



posted on Jun, 3 2015 @ 02:26 AM
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a reply to: Astyanax



Yet natural objects and processes have definable structures and functions. This suggests that our 'abstract ideas' are really conceptualizations of relationships between real, physical things.


Relationships are also abstract ideas. There are no natural objects and processes called 'relationships' with definable structures and functions. We also don't perceive any concrete relationship qua relationship. We conceive them. But they do have use in furthering understanding.

I'm not sure structuralism is taken seriously nowadays.



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