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The Right Wing is Very Afraid of Bernie Sanders

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posted on May, 31 2015 @ 01:50 AM
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originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon

Remember, society is the reason gays can't get married in the United States. So, I say society can rot.

You cannot physically remove me from the geography, and I will continue evading taxes.


Like I said, it's willful not forced. You don't want to participate then don't. See ya. Go live on your own and make everything from shoes to tools to toilet paper on your own without the help of anyone else then. Go find a spot and live there but you're on your own. Bye.




posted on May, 31 2015 @ 01:53 AM
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originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: mOjOm


Or a third option which is "willful participation". That is something we do already all the time which creates and sustains our society from which we all not only survive but thrive. With option three each of us pitches in according to our ability or means which keeps costs to a minimum and we all gain from it. Nobody is forced into slavery nor forced into anything.

Your two choices then are to join society or to live completely on your own.


No.

The word society is nothing more than empty rhetoric from despots bent on keeping power, like the Old Powers that lied to the people about bs like "the divine right to rule of kings" and God. There is no society, there are only individuals, and interactions between individuals. I cannot interact with "society."

It doesn't matter what you choose to call a playground bully--society, democracy, the third Reich, republican....theft is theft regardless as to who is doing the stealing.

If theft is not theft when the labor of others is demanded by society, then murder is not murder when society demands the death of just one or one million. That means that the nazis were doing societies' bidding when they killed 6 million Jews.

Remember, society is the reason gays can't get married in the United States. So, I say society can rot.

You cannot physically remove me from the geography, and I will continue evading taxes.



I have total sympathy for you evading taxes, believe me and wish you success in that endeavor


Though

“Society” is a valid scientific unit and entity of existential organic functioning. The animal kingdom is a manifestation and example of its integrity as a function of biological, sociological and psychological reality.


Of course there are always individual exceptions where a unit, a person, may become a recluse from their native born societal unit, sometimes freely and sometimes not freely.


This in itself still embodies such a unit to have an existential relationship with other organic entities or they will perish.


So your postulate of extreme individual reclusiveness as a literal biological, philosophical, sociological, or scientific possibility is untenable.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 02:00 AM
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originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
The word society is nothing more than empty rhetoric from despots bent on keeping power, like the Old Powers that lied to the people about bs like "the divine right to rule of kings" and God. There is no society, there are only individuals, and interactions between individuals. I cannot interact with "society."


There is a society although it's not an independent thing on it's own. It is the result of those individuals interacting to become something more than just it's parts.

Like the human body which we consider to be a single "thing or individual". However there are a whole host of other independent organisms within you that are acting together that without them you would not be alive. You are an individual yet without a combination of other organisms you would break down. Society is similar to that.


edit on 31-5-2015 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 02:04 AM
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nevermind
edit on 31-5-2015 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 02:11 AM
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a reply to: beezzer

That's probably for the best anyway because we are getting way off topic now.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 02:32 AM
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a reply to: Willtell


I think your forgetting your education, in which that hypothetical blog would be enhanced by such education. Such education required a vast amount of energy from others.


So you deduce that from the voluntary interactions between human beings, that means that we should have a government that uses violence to force people into the interactions that we want them to have?


Without that such a blog might be littered with illiteracy


So?


First, there is no statement in my post about “free” health care. I said right to health care. Nothing is free I understand.


Why do you have the right to steal from your neighbors? Or, why do you have the right to use government to steal from your neineighbors?

I mean, if I told my neighbor that I was going to regularly take money from him, and that if he didn't pay me I would put him in a cage, and if he resisted that I would use violence against him--I would morally be in the wrong, regardless as to my reasoning for doing it.

To be morally superior, though, one only needs to hire government to commit your crimes for you.


That is that your idea of “natural freedoms” doesn’t take into account the philosophical and sociological evolution of what science calls: complexity Indeed, complexity has evolved regarding human relationships where a human, mostly, is an integral part of a societal unit and there is the give and take of a relationship of mutual concern and a balance between the community and the individual that is the basic forming of this complexity.


"No, Lews, kings have the divine right to rule over you, I mean...crap, uh, society is scientific so we can abuse you.

There's soooo much complexity, said the feudal lord to his serf. You just can't have property rights because people work together and stuff."

It is extremely interesting to me how human beings will continue to willingly perpetuate their own slavery.

Feudalism is still alive and strong in today's world, it's just that the Emporer has switched clothes.

We don't have a king, we have our new ruler, "society." The government is very good at legitimising it's own existence.

And look at you, shamefully defending the boot stamping your face.



So we have evolved to respect the freedom, or as you might say natural freedoms of the individual only to a point: one can’t yell fire in movie theater.


A person being able to yell fire in a movie theatre is not a curb on freedom. There are no curbs on freedom.

You see, human beings have propety rights. If you were to yell fire in a crowded theatre, you would be committing a crime because you would be harming the property of others.

If the owner of the theater yelled fire when there wasn't one, he would be guilty of fraud. His patrons exchanged their property in return for the promise for the use of the theater. In this case the theater owner would be trying shirk his end of the bargain. Your example doesn't represent a limit on freedom--in fact, it does the opposite, the theater owner committed a crime because he infringed the property rights of his patrons by defrauding them.

It is because of the freedom of owning property that yelling fire in a movie theater is morally wrong.

If a patron yelled fire when there was no fire, the logic is the same--said patron had infringed on the property rights of both the owner and the other patrons.


One can’t not educate their children


The human being owns his body, you cannot say on one hand that a woman can get an abortion on the basis of self-ownership, but on the other hand claim that the individual does not have the right to refuse to be educated.

Either the individual fully owns his body or he does not. In which case he is a slave, and that is exactly what forced education is--slavery. Forced labor is slavery.

The existence of a law does not validate your position on human freedom. If it did, then forced racial segregation was moral because the laws said so.


One can’t refuse their children medical care even if one's religious precepts forbid it.


Parents don't own their children, but, neither should the state.


So understood is that freedom, like anything, is NOT an absolute


Yes, actually, it is.


Finally, in a society of complex interrelationships the society has arrogated certain rights to the whole and reserved relative and reasonable rights for the individual as long as they don’t infringe on the vital interests of the whole or other individuals.


When did I do this?? Can I take it back? Did someone drug me and force my signature?


Consequently, for instance, we have to have auto insurance


Well, you do, some of us just don't pay for it.


Therefore, I contend that in a modern complex society every human being should have access to adequate health care.


So, you are going to use violence to make sure everyone has healthcare, I know, I know.

I mean, god forbid we build a society on the basis of voluntary interaction. Instead, we'll build it out of involuntary interactions, but tell people that they chose this. Then we'll use the modern equivalent of superstitious drivel to claim some vague complexity that only "the group" can guide us through--we'll use double-speak to package it as freedom, and the human race will never realize that the Old Oder never actually left.

*snickers diabolically*


If the market can’t provide that and modern health care infrastructures obviously cannot, then the society has an obligation to provide the means for the whole and the individual
by the very constitution


Well, you go right ahead. I'll continue on trying to help the state collapse in on itself.
edit on 31-5-2015 by LewsTherinThelamon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 02:37 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm


Like I said, it's willful not forced. You don't want to participate then don't. See ya. Go live on your own and make everything from shoes to tools to toilet paper on your own without the help of anyone else then. Go find a spot and live there but you're on your own. Bye.


Ah, I see, so your phantom society not only claims ownership over me, but you also presume to claim ownership over everyone else, too?

So, do you only own people in the US, or do you own all human beings the world over?

What if the toilet paper maker came with me, so that he could produce toilet paper without having to pay taxes?

I mean, honestly, it would be beneficial for both of us....

But, yeah, I'm not leaving. I was born on this planet, you have no authority to force me to go anywhere.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 03:06 AM
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a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

No, my phantom society all chose to enjoy the combined effort and reward of society. I don't own anyone. I also chose to be part of something larger than myself along with others.

If the guy who makes toilet paper leaves too that's fine. He'll be on his own too.

Funny that you think he'll go with you though, aren't you independent??? If it's you and him then you're now making your own little society aren't you??? Imagine that. Apparently, you do understand the idea behind joining together for the benefit of all. But you want to be special too. Well, I guess you're not as special and capable as you might think after all. You just want your own society all to yourself I guess. Just you and the toilet paper guy. Have fun building all the equipment with just the two of you. Maybe you should take a engineer with you too. Maybe someone to wipe your butt for you too once it's all done.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 03:26 AM
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Bernie makes me smile... I hope he keeps railing against the ensconced pigs at the trough and all the rancid corruption, economic elitism, militarism, authoritarianism and rank hypocrisy in the halls of power.

Sadly, there aren't many more like him... both parties have tired, elitist policies... as both are bought and working for their corporate masters... but really, anyone voting GOP has a heart and mind three sizes too small.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 04:30 AM
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originally posted by: Baddogma
Bernie makes me smile... I hope he keeps railing against the ensconced pigs at the trough and all the rancid corruption, economic elitism, militarism, authoritarianism and rank hypocrisy in the halls of power.

Sadly, there aren't many more like him... both parties have tired, elitist policies... as both are bought and working for their corporate masters... but really, anyone voting GOP has a heart and mind three sizes too small.



Don't say that (not many like him) there is a whole generation coming up that's not retarded, there aren't "many" in the current generation in political power and every hand fighting against them is a help.

The brain looses plasticity in many people of a certain age most of our leaders are "stuck" they were built pre internet age and I honestly think they are just stupid, I was just watching the Michelle Bachman vs Sanders vid and god damn she's a moron, she said "jobs" 73 times and yeah so many people listen to that stuff and get hypnotized, sadly it works.. But Bernie has the ultimate point and needs to win or create a movement on one thing only "Education" if that reform comes over time humanity wins because people who are too stupid, literally too stupid to realize her kind of argumentation and her ideas are simply VANQUISHED by the proof positive that the nations who ARE giving good medical care, education NOT punishing their people constantly and being progressive and paying people like humans not farm animals are wonderful places to live and our lives get stinkier ever year... But they can't understand because they are dumb as a muffin.

Sanders is the man, just being out there speaking he IS getting through to the generation of kids facing this kind of hell and they will rise and vote at some point.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 05:34 AM
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Anyone who is in their right mind is very afraid of Bernie Sanders.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 07:21 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Sounds like you are locked into the MSM defense BS.

You have it all backwards.



No, I actually base my views on evidence and actual definitions globally of various political structures, not myopic American fallacies. Democrats aren't even true left. Ask any serious communist or real socialist. Bernie is closer to that, and admits it. He usually runs as an independent but is running as Democrat just to have a chance. Most of the Democrats consider him too left too. Most Democrats ARE NOT real leftists by any means.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 07:26 AM
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originally posted by: beezzer
Progressives are elitists who want to determine what is best for everyone.

They have no regard for the Constitution, Bill of Rights or freedoms in general.

At least Communists and Socialists are honest.

Progressives dress the worst parts of communism and socialism and call it "a new way of looking at freedom".

Progressives are liars.


True to form, just as I have been saying, many conservatives lack the critical thinking to be able to avoid many logical fallacies, such as over-generalization.

Not only that, but it was conservatives who hoorahed Bush in violating the human rights of people with no trials and torture abroad. It was conservatives who started the Patriot Act... It was a conservative Bush regime that violated "freedoms" in Afghanistan and Iraq, including violating the freedom of national sovereignty in Iraq.

And, of course, people like you forget how many conservatives want to determine "what is best for the rest of us," from defining marriage to banning gays to forcing religious monuments in public places....

You guys don't actually want real freedom for all, you just don't like the progressives chipping away at your historical DOMINANCE and control. You are losing your elite freedoms from ancient times, and you resent it.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 07:32 AM
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edit on 31-5-2015 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 07:33 AM
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originally posted by: Lgbtlivesmatter
What I can't fathom is how the democrats and indeed people on this thread are defending this writing , however accuse conservatives of being discriminatory to women.


Writing about someone having rape fantasies is one thing. It doesn't affect other people. It's just words. Like 50 Shades of Gray. It's about sex, but just words.

Making laws that deny women's right to abortion and access to birth control through insurance is QUITE another. It affects many other people.

And you don't see the difference between the two?



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 07:42 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

No, my phantom society all chose to enjoy the combined effort and reward of society. I don't own anyone. I also chose to be part of something larger than myself along with others.

If the guy who makes toilet paper leaves too that's fine. He'll be on his own too.

Funny that you think he'll go with you though, aren't you independent??? If it's you and him then you're now making your own little society aren't you??? Imagine that. Apparently, you do understand the idea behind joining together for the benefit of all. But you want to be special too. Well, I guess you're not as special and capable as you might think after all. You just want your own society all to yourself I guess. Just you and the toilet paper guy. Have fun building all the equipment with just the two of you. Maybe you should take a engineer with you too. Maybe someone to wipe your butt for you too once it's all done.


Most of the true "government isn't necessary" or "these statists have no right to compel anyone to do anything" or "taxes are violence," etc, are incredibly naive about the nature of economics, society, and what would happen if we had absolutely no umbrella organization (large or small) to work for common benefit and to protect our rights.

They make the classical mistake of "because I think a certain way and perhaps am even quite self-disciplined," therefore an entire society of me will work. This is the logical fallacy of projecting one's own state of being unto the macro and all people, which is often a requisite for a philosophy to work.

This has been said of many communists as well. That they think because they are willing to and able to give it all up for the common good, and work not for profit or status but for all people, that therefore all people will do that and such as system will work.

Countless people, from thugs to corporations, have proven that without someone to stop them (whether by force or regulation), they often will do self-serving things that harm the commons or other people's rights.


edit on 31-5-2015 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 07:44 AM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Lgbtlivesmatter
What I can't fathom is how the democrats and indeed people on this thread are defending this writing , however accuse conservatives of being discriminatory to women.


Writing about someone having rape fantasies is one thing. It doesn't affect other people. It's just words. Like 50 Shades of Gray. It's about sex, but just words.

Making laws that deny women's right to abortion and access to birth control through insurance is QUITE another. It affects many other people.

And you don't see the difference between the two?


Exactly, look at my posts on this thread. I too was describing how many on the right level shaky claims against the left, while some of the claims about excesses of the right in policy are very real, like them not passing equal pay laws for women, and so on.

I'm all about REAL issues, that are supported by evidence. There are some on the left too, but those actually from my view are mostly about supporting the neo-cons in voting for Iraq, intervening abroad, and such things as NSA spying/Patriot Act.
edit on 31-5-2015 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yes, you have it backwards.




posted on May, 31 2015 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: mOjOm


Like I said, it's willful not forced. You don't want to participate then don't. See ya. Go live on your own and make everything from shoes to tools to toilet paper on your own without the help of anyone else then. Go find a spot and live there but you're on your own. Bye.


Ah, I see, so your phantom society not only claims ownership over me, but you also presume to claim ownership over everyone else, too?

So, do you only own people in the US, or do you own all human beings the world over?

What if the toilet paper maker came with me, so that he could produce toilet paper without having to pay taxes?

I mean, honestly, it would be beneficial for both of us....

But, yeah, I'm not leaving. I was born on this planet, you have no authority to force me to go anywhere.



Your not on your own and doing it all by yourself if you need to grab some slaves to take with you.
I'm guessing you'll be taking the lions share of the wealth from their work.
You'll be king of your society you created where all work for you.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 11:16 AM
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originally posted by: BrianFlanders
Anyone who is in their right mind is very afraid of Bernie Sanders.


being afraid of Bernie sanders, is like the democrats telling the republicans to be very afraid of Donald trump. the phrase,..."not going to happen"... comes to mind. this country is bought and paid for by the wealthy and corporate, don't think so?....the 2008 bailout of the US financial system is proof.....in simple language, the large financial corporations at that time told the US government to give them 700 billion of government money, and put it on the taxpayers credit card, or they will take the country down.




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