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Why does Religious Conservatism Embrace Ignorance?

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posted on May, 30 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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Oh, and if you are taking a shot at me for questioning your libertarianism ...

Yeah, I kind of do.

I seldom see you in any thread discussing the subject directly. And in places where the libertarian response is something along the live and let live lines, you often tend to default toward the let government force one side or the other option. The only place you are in any sense libertarian is when it comes to drug legalization.

In my book, you are actually closer to libertine. You want all the vices with none of the actual personal liberties and responsibilities that ought to come along with them.




posted on May, 30 2015 @ 09:50 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: olaru12

You do know that Rev. Al claimed that God was judging Texas, so this kind of stuff isn't just a play made by those ig'nant country folks.

I remember when the left was busy circulating the meme about all the hurricanes hitting Florida back in the Bush days with the splashy question wondering if God was judging Florida for re-electing Bush.



And ISIS claimed it was because of the draw Mohammad contest.

I have a topic on how many people who vote democrat are more conservative than conservatives. These people are just using the democratic party as a means to an end.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 093131p://bSaturday2015 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2015 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777

Than for relating that about your kids. They learned from you.


I went to the school of hard knocks.

Me too, the academy of street wise.



posted on May, 30 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t



It's just that mainstream conservative beliefs have become so ludicrous and dumb that I can't relate to it anymore.


Heh. Not very "conservative," then, are they?



For one, why do I have to be religious to be a Conservative? Why do they HAVE to be linked?


Because that's how people get elected–I mean, because without Christianity, you cannot believe in common-sense ideas.




Naturally, some of you will tell me that they don't have to be, but all evidence shows that the modern conservative movement is intricately linked to religiousism, namely Christianity.


Just like the Progressive movement in the United States, which was started by Protestants.



Let's start with a history lesson. Where and when did religious conservatism start? Religious conversatism started with the creation of the "Christian Nation" myth. A myth that was created by big moneyed interests looking to combat Social ism from the New Deal. Ok let's stop for a second here and analyze the word "conservative". Conservative, as defined by Merrim-Webster, as "tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions". Therefore it reasons that Conservatives want things to go back to older ways. Well here is the FIRST inconsistency we come to. Socialism is an OLDER political idea than this religious political idea.


OK, here I will quibble a little. Conservatism isn't about age, it's about maintaining the status quo–that's what your definition says. And the status quo in the United States has never been socialism. The status quo in the US at the time of the New Deal *was* generally Christian social mores (as your link says, "It’s true that many Americans thought of their country as a “nation of Christians” from the start.") Even from the very beginning of our nation, people in the United States thought that political freedom was linked to the Christian religion (you can read Alexis de Tocqueville in Democracy in America describing people sending missionaries out to the frontier to make sure everyone was Christian so that democracy would be safe.) That's *different* from the idea that the United States was in some way an *officially* a Christian nation, but from the status quo perspective, Christian religion + politics is much more "conservative" than socialism, which has *never* been mainstream in the United States.



But here is where the ignorance comes in, Conservatives just rewrite history to say that it was always a Christian nation. This way they can pretend like their ideals are ACTUALLY conservative, when in reality, they are actually Progressive (since they are newer).


Just because something is *newer* doesn't mean it is Progressive. Progressivism is a specific ideology. Edmund Burke, who was one of the first conservatives, was also a classical liberal, which was a *newer* idea at the time. Burke was considered a conservative because he argued for the status quo against the Progressive ideology of the time (Reflections on the Revolution in France) not because he held old political views (which at the time would have been monarchy.) Or take Objectivism. It's very new, but definitely not Progressive.



Do you believe in Evolution? Do you believe in man made Climate Change? If you are a religious Conservative, chances are that the answer to both of those questions is no.


Yay. Liberals are more likely to oppose fracking, and nuclear power, which science has pretty much determined are good things. I'm not arguing with your point here (though I could) just point out that it is a bipartisan problem. Frankly, as much as I know you like talking about evolution, I think we can both agree that issues like fracking, nuclear power, and global warming are much more relevant to good governance.



Even Conservative rhetoric is just another example of people being proud to be uninformed and willing to express it loudly. What's the first thing a conservative says about the colleges or school system in this country? They call them liberal indoctrination centers. Do you ever stop to consider how effing stupid that label is? Colleges and schools teach information and facts. Yes there is political slant there, but facts are facts regardless of political affiliation.


So, according to your logic, a university that teaches creationism is teaching information and facts?

One of my friends was taught in community college that there was such a thing as news sources without any bias (and was willing to point them out, too.) Is that a fact?



Just because some teachers and professors may bring their politics into the classroom doesn't mean that they are teaching lies. In fact, why even bastardize learning institutions? Is being smart bad? Do you HONESTLY think that it is due to indoctrination that many people who go to college end up understanding evolution, climate change, the true origins of this nation, etc? Or is it MORE likely that these are just the facts, and you who are decrying the institutions are just extending a war between the dumb and the smart.


I actually don't think it's evolution/climate change/history that bugs conservatives as much as it is loose social mores and the perceived tendency of colleges to undermine religious belief. (I say perceived because you can check the demographics and see that's when people tend to drop out of church. I blame it more on the parents, not the college, but that's just me.)



To sum up here, I really WOULD like to be conservative, but this unilateral war the right pitches behind the (relatively) new idea of Religious Conservatism against intellectua is just absurd.


Agreed, the anti-intellectualism on the right is horrible. But, let's be honest, there's a *lot* of stupidity in colleges and universities these days. Don't be reflexively pro-college. Be pro-knowledge. There are good colleges, and bad colleges, and some of the good colleges are politically biased to the right, and some of them are biased to the left.



I'm sorry, but as long as the right embraces ignorance I can't support these things. The right needs to grow up and join the 21st century. Wallowing in ignorance and attacking people smarter than you is just a waste of time. Just go get educated so that we can refocus the political debate to REAL political issues again, instead of this mock battles between facts and lies.


Both the left and right embrace ignorance. What you're doing is the smart thing: weeding out the junk and embracing the truth.

edit on 30-5-2015 by StalkerSolent because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-5-2015 by StalkerSolent because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Krazy Krazy Krazy... I think you're confusing a few things, so I'll delightfully explain
But first I'll agree on one thing. The only technical "conservatives" in America are the Amish, Mennonites, & some Native American Tribes (though many of them also teach newer technologies, languages, etc). Everyone else is progressive to different extents, including the American right wing. Otherwise they'd cling to old gun technologies, old home appliances, would hand make their clothing, etc. Now for the misunderstandings:

1. You're confusing Christian fundamentalism with the American Christian right wing. They're not the same. In fact, most Christian nations in Europe & Latin America follow something called the "Social Gospel" or its offshoot, "Christian Socialism". They work to put Christianity and the Prophet Jesus' teachings into practice through policies and social norms. In fact, If I'm not mistaken, Germany's Leader Angela Merkel's party is called the Christian Democratic Party lol And they're "conservative" in Germany, though they'd be "progressives" in America. Even the Muslim Arab countries use something called "Arab Socialism".

2. America is the capitalism capital of the world. If you want to learn more about political policies & Christianity, you'd do much better learning about them in other countries. Because everything taught here is going to be from a right wing & capitalist point of view.

People here don't talk about it, but the Cold War was really about the former Empires from the Imperialism period fighting off rebellions from their former subjects. The major communist (left wing) powers aided the colored people of Africa, East Asia, the Middle East, and Latin America against the capitalist central bankers (right wing) from the West. So communism and its offshoot "socialism" will always be demonized in America, because America was always against it. In fact, if you look at our military interventions in Latin America during the Cold War, you'll see that we always funded right wing militant groups which always attacked the left wing communism/socialism groups. Just look into "The School of the Americas". So even though nearly all people in Latin America are Christians, you're seeing two vastly different political interpretations of Christianity.

Hope this helps.



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 11:24 PM
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Do you believe in Evolution? Do you believe in man made Climate Change?


LOL

Whose embracing ignorance eh ?

Climate change is EVOLUTION.

As the Earth's climate has been in a constant state of motion since 'in the beginning'.

Along comes critic's of the 'dumb' right, and their so called 'intellectual' superiority while boldly pointing they don't have such a thing.


edit on 31-5-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2015 @ 11:50 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Now this is just my opinion from everything I've understood from the whole spectrum of things.

It seems to me that there are different factions that have joined up either knowingly or unknowingly or a little of both. Those factions include but may not be limited to Big Business, Religious Fundamentalism, and Conservatism. I know that the Religious aspect started a while back and is often labeled as Dominion-ism or Reconstruction-ism. I think it was them who decided that their best chance of gaining control was by co-opting the Conservative party.

How Bug Business is related I think might be just because they infected every major group possible but especially the political arena for obvious reasons but mainly so they could gain more power and control over profit. They have found a particular groove with the conservatives as far as Military Spending and Energy however. Those areas I think are typically less profitable when the left are in charge because they tax the energy more, explore alternatives, etc.

That covers the basics though in a general summary.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 05:45 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Krazysh0t


It seems to me that there are different factions that have joined up either knowingly or unknowingly or a little of both. Those factions include but may not be limited to Big Business, Religious Fundamentalism, and Conservatism. I know that the Religious aspect started a while back and is often labeled as Dominion-ism or Reconstruction-ism. I think it was them who decided that their best chance of gaining control was by co-opting the Conservative party.

They have found a particular groove with the conservatives as far as Military Spending and Energy however.


I have come to the same conclusion as when it comes to different fractions pushing their agendas. I think that the backslash to conservatives is direct result of years and years of psychological warfare against anything that the CIA and big money thought could be seen as a gateway drug to sosialistic ideas during the cold war. US people have been victims to large scale opinion manipulation, but of course very few of the victims are ready to admit it. When the right have felt the need to rally against democrats it has always been easiest way to use those pre-installed buttons that have been implanted to fight the godless communists.
The problem is that you are maybe getting more voters, but also you have to be responsible to the very voters you have attracted. By reinforcing unrealistic beliefs and religious mumbojumbo in order to get more votes has a side effect of dumber policies. If, like OP suggests, much of the time in politics is spent in pointles arguing about secondary things TPTB can be sure that status quo will remain. This has maybe worked well in the past cause the questions in politics have effected only people, but now when human action can and will have dramatic effects on our planets ecosystems it would be good to have governments that can and will make quick decisions based on best scientific knowledge mankind has at the time.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 06:31 AM
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fands OP

I realize that some christians have a great difficulty with the facts I have presented re the real working celtic cross and its history changing discovery.
To be clear I am not anti christian, I am PRO fact...the arguments against my view point in reality have been so far, NON starters all.

honestly, after discovering the working celtic cross, and the math and phonetic systems that goes with it
( see my siggy thread ), it has become very difficult to subscribe to anything in anyway "christian".

when christianity says that the US is a "christian nation" they are just stealing it the way they stole pretty much everything in that "religion": like easter, christmas, and even all the attributes of their "savior", which all are attributed to previous "saviors", like Mithra..( why the pope wears a "miter" for example)

meanwhile using this working cross or ANKH you can actually measure angles, and with the math of 666 you can convert pretty much any number base system to any other so trade is possible with various cultures. this allows for measuring stuff like real estate, and star angles for navigation, and standardizing weights/metal currency ( turning lead into gold)...etc

this is why the cross is a sacred symbol of life: its USEFULNESS in REALITY
the religious connotations are just pure mumbo jumbo designed to HIDE the real uses of this gear from the unwashed masses.

also
if you want to see one manifestation of this gigantic COHN
see the illegality of the money sent to ISISrael from THE CHRISTIAN NATION of the US of A
illegal because of the NNPR ( nuclear non proliferation treaty )
really, would jesus to this type stuff?
edit on Monam6b20156America/Chicago27 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 06:48 AM
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It always made me wonder what kind of person could believe BS promoted by right wing conservatives. IMHO they and their supported in many ways remind me of religious fanatics of middle east, where religion is used to mass mindless together and constant fear is supposed to make them quiet and ignorant, just as topic suggests.

It is interesting, but not big surprise that denial of science, evolution and history found ground among those extremes and that their agenda is not much different then any other religious sect.

IMHO, many are and with good reason thinking of recent wars we fought as religious war... even out president with mind of little kid (no offense kids) stated that in his references to bible while trying to sell Iraq war to France. (apparently this has worked with England
)


Bush had then said that when he looked at the Middle East, he saw "Gog and Magog at work" and the biblical prophecies unfolding. But who the hell were Gog and Magog? Neither Chirac nor his office had any idea. But they knew Bush was an evangelical Christian, so they asked the French Federation of Protestants, who in turn asked Professor Römer.

He explained that Gog and Magog were, to use theological jargon, crazy talk. They appear twice in the Old Testament, once as a name, and once in a truly strange prophecy in the book of Ezekiel:

And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.


Source - Guardian

All those agendas of changing history, anti science, stupefying people will have major impact in our future... and let's hope they will not get everywhere... because we are already failing behind... and this will place us where Islam was 1K years ago... and just check from history how good for them was their religious nonsense. We will not have any different future if we allow this...

Also I think that Bush Jr. and his counterpart, Blair should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Who knows, this might happen in our life time, if not, it might go down in history and might be something else we might try to change in history books...

www.cnn.com...
edit on 1-6-2015 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 08:35 AM
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The answer is kinda in the question.. take a harder look ""religious" conservatisim"!



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 08:52 AM
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This thread topic has been done on ATS 100x over. I'm glad all the regulars have somewhere to come and share their Christian bashing opinions.

So many false assumptions. But why bother, it's clear with post after post no one's opinion is going to change. Christianity isn't fear based. No more than Islam is terrorist based. With 2 billion Christians on the planet it will be easy to find ones that fit whatever model you want to paint them in. Rich, poor, smart, uneducated, hypocrites, fakes, violent, non-violent, etc. Also factor in that 0% of human beings are perfect and Voila! You will always have an excuse to blame people instead of looking at the actual teachings of Jesus. If you took that same approach towards politicians, scientists, or any group of people there will always be frauds, cheats, and fakers. Might as well write off every group.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t
The question is: Why are atheists so obsessed with religion?



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 09:33 AM
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Same reason far left liberals embrace ignorance against anyone who doesn't think exactly like them.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: jjkenobi



have somewhere to come and share their Christian bashing opinions.


We cannot deny that there are some that come on these threads just to bash religion, but there are also people such as myself that respect religion, yet are completely tired of one particular ideology that tries to validate their political actions and beliefs by invoking the name of god.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: MoreBeer
Same reason far left liberals embrace ignorance against anyone who doesn't think exactly like them.


That's an interesting statement.

Could you be more specific and provide an example/instance in which that is the case?

People on the left are not any different than people on the right, in that they do not like people to disagree with them, but I'm confused as to what you actually mean when you say "embrace ignorance against anyone who doesn't think exactly like them".

A clarification is in order because, to me, that comment doesn't make sense.



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: MoreBeer
Same reason far left liberals embrace ignorance against anyone who doesn't think exactly like them.


That's an interesting statement.

Could you be more specific and provide an example/instance in which that is the case?

People on the left are not any different than people on the right, in that they do not like people to disagree with them, but I'm confused as to what you actually mean when you say "embrace ignorance against anyone who doesn't think exactly like them".

A clarification is in order because, to me, that comment doesn't make sense.


Well liberals are thought of as excepting and tolerant individuals by some.

A lot are but there are a great many who not excepting of anyone who doesn't see eye to eye on gay marriage or religion for example. Then the are just as hateful and bigoted against the people they disagree with.

They display the exact same behaviors and spew the exact same rhetoric as right wing haters just at the opposite end of the spectrum. Yet they somehow think they are morally superior and correct in their stance.

It's hard to ignore all the hate directed towards Christians and whites in the US these days. But this hate is some how excepting and tolerant behavior because it is displayed by the left?

I would like to state I am neither right wing or religious. I notice the hypocrisy spewed from both sides and will not hesitate to point it out.

All extremists whether right wing or left wing are just opposite ends of the same turd.
edit on 1-6-2015 by MoreBeer because: Spelling errors



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 10:29 AM
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On social issues, Americans are more liberal than ever before. What's behind the sudden shift?


I think some liberals are stuck on the old school mentality, not willing to see that the conservatives are not the villains you want them to be, and BTW there was a times that liberal democrats were the same when it cam to social issues, but making it seem like conservatives are bigots keeps the voters in line.

On this forum I really don't see that much bigotry.



Some 63 percent of Americans now say gay or lesbian relations are "morally acceptable." That's a 23-point jump since 2001, when only 40 percent felt that way, according to Gallup. That jump reflects the greatest shift in opinion to the left of any issue Gallup measured in its survey.

Recommended: How is money reshaping American politics? Take our quiz.
Americans today are also more accepting of having a child out of wedlock: 61 percent said it's OK, compared with 45 percent in 2001. And some 68 percent of Americans now say sex outside of marriage is acceptable, compared with 53 percent in 2001.




These results reflect the same type of shift evident in the public's self-reported ideology on "social issues." More Americans now rate themselves as socially liberal than at any point in Gallup's 16-year trend, and for the first time, as many say they are liberal on social issues as say they are conservative.

www.gallup.com...



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 10:49 AM
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I'm not able to adopt the conservative or liberal label because I have been placed in the "people like you" [what ever that is] classification, but I have noticed that at least the liberals don't continually whine about being picked on like the right wing and Christians. If ATS is any example; there are a lot more threads anti progressives/libs and Obama from my perspective. And that's the way it should be!!! Always question the party in power!!!
edit on 1-6-2015 by olaru12 because: %^EJ



posted on Jun, 1 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
Q: Why does Religious Conservatism Embrace Ignorance?

A: The simplest answer: control. Especially in male-dominated patriarchal societies, from which the strictest form of religious control comes from, it's most effective upon the ignorant.


IMO, this is absolutely the best and most simply put answer to the question posed in the OP and more than worthy of repeating.

That's why I quoted it.

50 stars to the Blackmarketeer!




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