Russia puts Fear in U.S.A.

Oh My!! what's this www.vialls.com...

[edit on 3-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Originally posted by ExD
Wow!!!!!! the best example how history can be rewritten for the West, I'm under impression. Well, we're at least know truth, you only know crap, it's just funny that you don't know anything about real powers of that time. Stay in your dreams, idiot, you are dumb enough to be proud american citizen, and such sites only help you. Wow, I'm still under impression from this crap, never saw so much lie in one place. And after that you called yourself free, yeah. US just not worth to be the part of civilized world, and you teach your children SUCH history, wow, great. Ok, I know that your educational system is crap, and produce only idiots, but now.., wow, lie about ww2, lie about history of other countries, oh, what now? Maybe US invented gunpowder, guns, wheel, and Roman Empire was actually american? Can your children count integral, differential or doesn't know what is it? Do you know what is Teory of Systems, Theory of Relativity? Yeah, I forget that your goverment only wants idiots, who can be easily controlled. And after that you pretend to be the best? New alliances are forming, new superpowers are creating, you are just not worth to exsist. Country, who prefer write lie for their history, country, who can't give proper education to it's children, country, who thinks that others are nothing must be annihilated. I don't want to argue with such idiot, which "knowledge" based on lie.

I know Russia, the KGB, the Communist party, and the increadable freedoms and truth within the Russian boarders have historically been of a superior nature compared to the rest of the world....NOT.

You seem to still have a more than few textbooks lying around your schools from the Soviet Union days, and seriously, they were filled with lies. Either that or you are Russian intelligence of some sort trying to disinform yourselves,,,again... And kidding yourselves is all you can do here.
Grow up and get a brain.

[edit on 3-1-2005 by Cowboy]

Next you are going to tell me Russia or china or india invented the internet, and that computer you are typing on. Communist brand?

America isn't likely to waste its time fighting a second world nation like Russia any time soon. You guys are limiting your own power in the world by letting Putin run around doing whatever he wants.

Cowboy can i point out a flaw in your theory here?
You say the USSR was comunist , right?
BUT infact it was a dictator ship since one leader ruled all , right?
And BTW if russians cant project power, then how can they invent the best current S2S/A2S/G2S missile on the planet?

I await your rebuttle.

BUT infact it was a dictator ship since one leader ruled all , right?

Communism is an economic system more than anything. This is like asking how could America be capitalist when it's also a democratic republic.

And BTW if russians cant project power, then how can they invent the best current S2S/A2S/G2S missile on the planet?

Best according to who?

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
Communism is an economic system more than anything. This is like asking how could America be capitalist when it's also a democratic republic.

Comunism is where the people control the government, in russia stalin controlled the people = dictatorship.
America country controlled by companies= capatilism.

Best according to who?

To the world even the US agree its the best, the fact is that it does a better job than ANY missile in the world.
The us tried to aquire it but failed, the russians wouldnt sell them it.

Comunism is where the people control the government, in russia stalin controlled the people = dictatorship.

In pure communism, people live for the community. I'm not sure if that's quite the same as a government by the people.

Either way, that's PURE communism. It's the final phase of communism. A dictatorship is how they go about trying to get it.

America country controlled by companies= capatilism.

America isn't controlled by companies. It's controlled by a democratic repubic.

To the world even the US agree its the best, the fact is that it does a better job than ANY missile in the world.
The us tried to aquire it but failed, the russians wouldnt sell them it.

Does a better job? Against who? Untested equipment isn't impressive.

America trying to buy a missile doesn't make it the best. It's hardly an acknowledgement as such. It's useful to know what your enemies can do.

If Russia is a second rate nation like You Yanks like to beleive and lie to other nations then 80% of Rus's cruise Missle, would be destroyed 80% of MiG's, Sukoi's 80% Tanks would be rusting away but we are always having training, 80% of the tanks are being upgraded and we coming out not only with the "Black Eagle , but with the real T-95 which will be a radicly new tank, Rus could be doing this if Rus is colapsing hu yank I thought we're colapsing hu? but you yanks are always trining to tell everyone that Russia is collapsing Russia is collapsing well if that's the case by now 2005 ALL of the MiG's/Sukoi's ,Tanks Missles and Army would be completly gone, how come we still have 988,000 active duty troops and 20Million reservists. U.S.A. only has 600,000 active duty troops 200k reservist which 150k now are in Iraq if F-15 was so much more advanced than Sukoi/MiG then there would be no need for F-22 and also the F-22 is going to be built not for the officialy said reason but for war with Russia and our 5th Gen Sukoi is built and ready to roll but we won't show iyt untill NATO attacks Bosnia one more time we aint trippin that hard about U.S attackin Iran which U.S will for thier masters (Jews in Palistine) so kick back and watch the shhhhooowww Disturbed-Guy

[edit on 3-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

[edit on 3-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Really, the US doesn't plan on attacking Russia, and Russia most likely isn't planning to attack the US. Although Russia is suffering economic difficulties Russia is still to powerful to be taken lightly, the same goes for the US.

Anyhow as for A2A combat I don't really consider the current Migs much of a threat as our combat aircraft are a little more up to date. However the Sukuios are a threat, particuarly the Flanker. So I'd say in the air we are currently well matched, until both sides roll out the 5th gen. fighters. So far nobody knows what the 5th gen. fighters will bring so only time will tell.

Well, I read that link on this page regarding the USS Lincoln and the "suspected" ties to weather related disasters. I would have to say, having a fiancee that served abord the Lincoln for more than 4 years and having done a full tour during Desert Shield/Storm/Fox...this person's info is completely off the mark.

Quite laughable indeed.

The Villas guy is a nut, totally anti-american/Israel, and while has some information is otherwise delusional. Russia has some good aircraft, and missiles, but not significantly if at all superior. War between US/Russia would be suicide. Try to stick to reality, these conspiricy theories are making me dizzy.
I am going to be expecting to get abducted by aliens if I believe all this crap.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
In pure communism, people live for the community. I'm not sure if that's quite the same as a government by the people.

Well technically you live for yourself, people still need to get it from you but they have to give you something in return.
government bby the people would techincally be it since the people would look after the people so there fore the comunity!

Either way, that's PURE communism. It's the final phase of communism. A dictatorship is how they go about trying to get it.

No how they do it is by killing the rulers or removeing them and giveing all the money to the people is one way OR they just get rid of the rulers, stalin didnt do any of the above apart from kill the leaders and put himself in power.

America isn't controlled by companies. It's controlled by a democratic repubic.

So if say a couple of big oil companies wanted to go to war to get some oil which they couldnt get before and promised rewards to the government and the leader incharge's next election campagin ,would the government not do this?

Does a better job? Against who? Untested equipment isn't impressive.

It is better than exorcet , which that type of missile managed to sink a US aegis ship and 2 british ships.
The weapon has never been used in combat but has twice the range of the exercet,mach 2.1 (close to the F22's top speed i might add) and can carry 750 pounds of exsplosive or a 200 kiloton nuclear warhead.

In fact the close range weapon systems on the ships (phalanx) does not have enough time to destroy it even if the missile is detected.

America trying to buy a missile doesn't make it the best. It's hardly an acknowledgement as such. It's useful to know what your enemies can do.

No but i think they desperately want this weapon since it could of sunk the US fleet in the gulf.

The level of stupidity recahed by Yanks is truly UNBELEIVABLE, you mean to tell me you guys realy beleive this crap of Iraqs WMD's Hussein working with Ben-Laden, come on now even 3rd world citizens can tell when thier Gov is lying about somethin, oh well guess you'll have to find out the hardway.

I know Russia, the KGB, the Communist party, and the increadable freedoms and truth within the Russian boarders have historically been of a superior nature compared to the rest of the world....NOT.

You seem to still have a more than few textbooks lying around your schools from the Soviet Union days, and seriously, they were filled with lies. Either that or you are Russian intelligence of some sort trying to disinform yourselves,,,again... And kidding yourselves is all you can do here.
Grow up and get a brain.

If you know KGB and Communist party doesn't mean that you know Russia. Your frauds on last 2 elections just shows what freedoms you have and what they mean to you, your media also shows your freedom of speech when shows Ukrainian elections, oh, it doesn't show that third elections has more frauds than second (about 12,000 frauds - most of them took place in Western Ukraine), it's also not shown that when people goes to vote, some of them "already voted" for Yuschenko, there's much more questions to this elections. Oh, I know what you tell now: "It's a communist propaganda!". It's your best argument through time, good excuse for your unwillingness to accept other point of view.


Back to the topic:

You seem to still have a more than few textbooks lying around your schools from the Soviet Union days, and seriously, they were filled with lies. Either that or you are Russian intelligence of some sort trying to disinform yourselves,,,again... And kidding yourselves is all you can do here.
Grow up and get a brain.

Before trying to give advices, try to grow up yourself, ok? If, you don't know what textbooks are in schools, it's better do not talk about that. If you interested, even when I studied at school (1991-2001) there are not a single book from Soviet times, history of XIX century isn't written in XX, facts are facts(BTW "Communsts" didn't manipulate facts(numbers, actions), but sometimes give them different interprteations, the funny thing - my parents grow up in respect to countries with different political system, not like childrens in some democratic countries who feared Ruskies to death), all books are based on documents, books of the past. History of Russia written in Russian, just don't pretend to "know" Russian history if you see several sites with short questionable info.

Now, although you don't know russian or consider our information as lie, you can try to get some facts from Brittanica(well, our interests crossed sometimes and some numbers are different), Wikipedia, or other respectable source, about OnWar site, in XIX russian army do not exceed 900,000, and are not concentrated in one place, in asian wars took part from 100,000 to 200,000 soldiers(vary from war to war), not 1,400,000. About situation in Europe in XIX century you can read here(just shows you what was world in that years and what powers exists):

www.mymacedonia.net...

And now, you claim that eastern/western front=50/50, well, here link:
Timeline for 1944 for Eastern front

Timeline for 1944 for Western front

22/06/1944 The Russian summer offensive, operation 'Bagration' begins against Army Group Centre in Byelorussia with assaults by the Soviet 1st Baltic, 3rd Belorussian 2nd and 1st Belorussian Fronts against Army Group Centre on a 450 mile front between Polotsk and Bobruysk. Soviet forces amount to 124 divisions, 1,200,000 men, 5,200 tanks, 30,000 guns and 6,000 aircraft. Against this, the German can field just 63 divisions, including 900 tanks and 10,000 guns. The Luftwaffe launches a surprise night raid (60 aircraft) on the US 8th Air Force's shuttle base at Poltava in the Ukraine, destroying 44 B-17s and 500,000 gallons of fuel.

19/06/1944 A violent storm in the English Channel wrecks the U.S. Mulberry Harbour at St. Laurent (Omaha Beach). 20 allied divisions now oppose 16 German in Normandy.

63 german divisions on East/16 german divisions on West=~4/1

Operation 'Bagration' was quickly prepared to help allies on Churchill request.

Korean war statistics published on ats somewhere, declassified sources said that there are 6,000 russian were in conflict area(military advisors, pilots, civilian services, medics), only 16 died(3 from diseases), you've talked about hundreds of killed russian pilots - provide your sources to ensure that they are reliable, maybe I wrong, but I don't think so.

Well, I guess my previous statements are backed enough.

Now about weapons, we are both have outstanding toys, just sometimes we are both underestimate them, well, on this forum russian weapons are understimated more, and american ones are overestimated - well it's ok - still this is english-speaking forum.

Direct actions are highly improbable, at least now, but indirect actions are always took place, sometimes they goes to local military conflicts.

Now, although you don't know russian or consider our information as lie, you can try to get some facts from Brittanica(well, our interests crossed sometimes and some numbers are different), Wikipedia, or other respectable source, about OnWar site, in XIX russian army do not exceed 900,000, and are not concentrated in one place, in asian wars took part from 100,000 to 200,000 soldiers(vary from war to war), not 1,400,000. About situation in Europe in XIX century you can read here(just shows you what was world in that years and what powers exists):

There were 1.3 million Russians at Kursk alone. There were some 4-5 million Russians there to stop Barbosa.

en.wikipedia.org...

There weren't wars in Asia, either. Russia kept troops on the eastern border because they were paranoid of Japan.

And now, you claim that eastern/western front=50/50, well, here link:

That's not quite what I claim. I said the Russians were facing just half the German troops by D-Day. Troops were directly taken from the Eastern front to defend France.

The numbers are misleading, as well. A big reason the Russians could overwhelm the Germans is because their forces were spread out across Russia. The term Eastern Front is very vague. Meanwhile, most troops in France were built up along the coastline.

Korean war statistics published on ats somewhere, declassified sources said that there are 6,000 russian were in conflict area(military advisors, pilots, civilian services, medics), only 16 died(3 from diseases), you've talked about hundreds of killed russian pilots - provide your sources to ensure that they are reliable, maybe I wrong, but I don't think so.

The key word here is adivors. The Russians, besides pilots, had no combat troops. To count casualties besides in the air is pointless.

Tallying a final death toll in the clandestine Soviet-American air war is difficult. The Russian public was told that deaths were due to �strange diseases.� Concealment was paramount, as burial in a remote Port Arthur cemetery attests to.

In Alien Wars, authors Gen. Oleg Sarin and Col. Lev Dvoretsky cite 110 planes lost and 319 pilots killed. Other sources say 345 aircraft were downed with 200 pilots dead. Still other accounts claim total Soviet casualties of 299, including non-pilots (AAA gunners were killed in raids). B-29 gunners claim credit for 16 MiG-15s shot down while F-86s destroyed 792 MiGs. How many had Soviet pilots in the cockpit is anyone�s guess.

On the American side, the count is even more controversial. During the Korean War, the U.S. Air Force sustained 1,198 deaths in combat. Of these, 968, or 80%, were fighter pilots. Some 112 of them were F-86 pilots, the most likely to engage the Soviets in MiG Alley. Sixteen B-29 bombers were downed by enemy fighters and four by anti-aircraft fire.

Historian Jon Halliday, who has conducted extensive research into this matter, asserts that virtually all the American airmen perished as a result of Soviet action.

Whatever the case, no one can any longer deny the identity of the adversary. Lt. Gen. Otto P. Weyland, head of FEAF after June 1951, boasted that he was the only U.S. Air Force commander who ever fought the Russians.

Indeed, President Harry Truman wrote in an April 1954 memo: �In Korea, we whipped the Russian air force.�

In this war, America emerged with the upper hand. Lt. Gen. Georgi A. Lobov, commander of the Soviet 64th Air Defense Corps, conceded defeat. �We could not overcome the Americans in the air,� he said. �We had only fighters and AAA.�

A postscript to this hidden conflict further confirms the deadly aerial duels in MiG Alley. In September 1998, the U.S.-Russia Joint Commission on POW/MIA Affairs brought together five American pilots and six Russian representatives to help locate the remains of 45 Soviet pilots lost over North Korea.

Meeting in Virginia, one of the U.S. pilots, former F-86 Sabre jet wingman 2nd Lt. William E. Brown Jr., of the 4th FIG, remarked: �I found it eerie. I spent 34 years in the Air Force preparing to fight these people. Then I found myself sitting across the table from them.�

Source - www.koreanwar-educator.org...

America had a 10:1 kill ratio in the air during Korea.

Now about weapons, we are both have outstanding toys, just sometimes we are both underestimate them, well, on this forum russian weapons are understimated more, and american ones are overestimated - well it's ok - still this is english-speaking forum.

There's a lot more people on here who prefer Su-27's to F-15's. American weapons are underestimate a whole lot more on here by the many Europeans, Chinese, and Russians.

Wrong this is not correct this is more Yank propaganda U.S.A claimed a 10:1 over Russia is ABSOLUTLY RIDICULOS. U.S.A. claimed to have shot down 976 MiGs and they lost only 114 F-80/84/86's Russia said that it shot down 1106 F-80/84/86's and that only335 MiG15's were shot down and an additional 10 MiG-15 were lost to mechanical Failures now Russia said China and Korea lost 231 MiG before Russia got involved add 335 VVS MiG 15's and thats only 566 MiG's totally shot down by U.S.A. but VVS shot down 1106, now YANKS spread more lies in thier 1977 edition of"Aviation Encyclopedia" by now stating they shot down 2300 communist Planes hahahahaah you yanks you realy get your pride hurt when you lose a war don't you. NOW Robert Futrell (AN American) not only did extensive reaserch for his book "The United States Air Force 1950-1953" but he also interviewd Pentagon pfficials with the declassified U.S. Airforce reports on the Korean war The Pentagon officials addmited to him U.S.Airforce lost 1035 and that 945 F-80/84/86's were lost to mechanical failures "A TESTAMONY TO Yank supiriourity hu Disturbed Diliverer?" hahahahah now heres more YANK If you don't believe me go read his book you'll see with your own eyes ALL the Pentagon Officials and U.S. AirForce officials he talked with and got thier permission to quote them the book is "The United States Air Force In Korea 1950-1053" by Robert Futrell. The 5th SAR group of the U.S.A. Army reported to have rescued OVER 1000 USAF pilots from N.Korean territory HEY Disturbed Diliverer how can 1000 pilots jump from 114 F-80/84/86 planes? You don't beleive me?! forget that Yank Propaganda site you just posted here's a real yank site by U.S. AIR FORCE pilot Veterans of the Korean war www.korean-war.com...


[edit on 3-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

[edit on 3-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Cyclone Zoe
Jan 3, 2003
Link from BBC via About
Pics look the same as Viall's site, village of Anatu virtually untouched. Other village- white sand up to roofs on huts with roofs still intact.

Leading Solomon opposition politician Alfred Sasako described the AusAid remarks as "insensitive and deeply insulting".
"How can you be so sure when you are flying at an altitude of between 500 feet (150 metres) and 1,000 feet?" he said referring to the height of the Australian surveillance aircraft.
-and-
It blasted the islands with winds estimated to have reached 350 kilometres per hour (220 mph).

while Vialls claims 300 mph
-further-
Accoding to Vialls:

Obeying her new orders with alacrity, the USS Abraham Lincoln slipped her mooring in Gage Roads off Fremantle on 28th December, and headed ponderously out to sea. When well clear of the local shipping lanes, she changed course and headed directly towards the Persian Gulf. And while CVN72 sailed steadily north through the Indian Ocean on her deadly mission for Zion, Cyclone Zoe started to go completely berserk in the Pacific, increasing spin velocity to impossible figures, and changing course for the small Solomon island of Tikopia.

O.K., so let's see where this is:
Cyclone in the Solomons- O.K.
Fantastic wind speeds- O.K.
Lincoln? What does the Lincoln do?
-end part 1-

-part 2
Zedd says NOT what Viall claims, so let's see what others say.

US Navy web site��In June 1998, Abraham Lincoln commenced her fourth deployment, spending three months in the Arabian Gulf during the hottest summer on record.

���The crew then began a nine-month Interdeployment Training Cycle (IDTC) before participating in RIMPAC 2000, a multinational exercise conducted off the Hawaiian Islands. RIMPAC completed the IDTC and prepared the ship for deployment to the Arabian Gulf. During deployment, the ship spent more than 100 days on station supporting Operation Southern Watch and maritime interception operations.
In April 2001, the ship moved to the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard for a scheduled Planned Incremental Availability period. Completing PIA in October, Abraham Lincoln began workups for its next operational cycle. In July 2002, the ship and air wing deployed to support Operations Enduring Freedom and Southern Watch. On the way, Abe visited Sasebo, Japan; Hong Kong, China; Singapore, and Bahrain.
���The deployment turned out to be anything but routine, as the normal six month rotation became a record-setting, extended 10 months. After providing support to OEF and OSW, the Abraham Lincoln paid a much deserved port visit to Perth, Australia. It was then that the determination was made to return to the northern stretches of the Arabian Gulf where the entire carrier battle group and airwing helped deliver the opening salvos and air strikes in Operation Iraqi Freedom. A total of 16,500 sorties were flown during that 10 months, and 1.6 million pounds of ordnance were used during OIF, on top of 265.118 pounds expended during support of OSW and OEF.
���Upon arrival in Pearl Harbor, the ship had logged 102,816 nautical miles. Before steaming into San Diego, the deployment was culminated by a visit by the Commander-in-Chief, President George W. Bush, who welcomed the crew home for a job well done.

The US Navy site does refer to Zedd's remarks but ten years earlier

On May 28, 1991, Abraham Lincoln made its maiden deployment nearly four months ahead of schedule in response to Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm

As to timeliness, it appears to me that Zedd has missed the mark by a wide margin.

Viall missed the speed of the Cyclone as well- he claimed 300 mph while the BBC claimed 220.

Viall also claimed Freemantle and US Navy claimed Perth and Hobart, so let's look at Australia.
Perth, SW edge, Hobart SE edge of Tasmania. Something around 3,500 miles apart.
From maps Fremantle appears to be the Perth's favourite port city
So, score one for Viall as to location over the US Navy?

Kind of like Jacksonville, Florida being a Navy port. In a way it is BUT the ships use Mayport!
-end part 2

4) quote

Wrong this is not correct this is more Yank propaganda U.S.A claimed a 10:1 over Russia is ABSOLUTLY RIDICULOS. U.S.A. claimed to have shot down 976 MiGs and they lost only 114 F-80/84/86's Russia said that it shot down 1106 F-80/84/86's and that only335 MiG15's were shot down and an additional 10 MiG-15 were lost to mechanical Failures now Russia said China and Korea lost 231 MiG before Russia got involved add 335 VVS MiG 15's and thats only 566 MiG's totally shot down by U.S.A. but VVS shot down 1106, now YANKS spread more lies in thier 1977 edition of"Aviation Encyclopedia" by now stating they shot down 2300 communist Planes hahahahaah you yanks you realy get your pride hurt when you lose a war don't you. NOW Robert Futrell (AN American) not only did extensive reaserch for his book "The United States Air Force 1950-1953" but he also interviewd Pentagon pfficials with the declassified U.S. Airforce reports on the Korean war The Pentagon officials addmited to him U.S.Airforce lost 1035 and that 945 F-80/84/86's were lost to mechanical failures "A TESTAMONY TO Yank supiriourity hu Disturbed Diliverer?" hahahahah now heres more YANK If you don't believe me go read his book you'll see with your own eyes ALL the Pentagon Officials and U.S. AirForce officials he talked with and got thier permission to quote them the book is "The United States Air Force In Korea 1950-1053" by Robert Futrell. The 5th SAR group of the U.S.A. Army reported to have rescued OVER 1000 USAF pilots from N.Korean territory HEY Disturbed Diliverer how can 1000 pilots jump from 114 F-80/84/86 planes? You don't beleive me?! forget that Yank Propaganda site you just posted here's a real yank site by U.S. AIR FORCE pilot Veterans of the Korean war www.korean-war.com...

You can believe whatever you want about kill ratios. It is unarguable who had air superiority in the Korean War once the F-86's came in.

Even if you went based on the number of Mig-15's lost according to the Soviets, Sabre's still achieved a 3:1 kill ratio against the Soviets in the Sabres, which were equal, if not inferior to the Mig-15. The Sabres in Korea were also outnumbered.