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Russia puts Fear in U.S.A.

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posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 05:45 AM
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In ww2 on D-Day(6 June, 1944), we rushing through Europe and four-fifths of the German forces were in the East. In France, the Allies faced only about 20% of the German army. The second front, however, certainly diverted German resources, and shortened the war. Allies just feared that we take entire Europe after war. And after your landings you get hard times because Germans shortly started offence on your front and Cherchill asked us for large attack on Eastern front to save your a$$es, and we saved lifes of your soldiers.


In 1944, only 57% of the German troops were on the Eastern front.

Source - www.world-war-2.info...

And the only real offensive by the Germans was the Battle of the Bulge, in which we beat the Germans badly.


In 1964-1968 USA lost more than 3400+ aircrafts(including 31 B-52), you killed only 345 MIG's, and only 16 russians died in this war(3 from diseases), where the hundreds you've talked about? You lost more than 58000 soldiers, yeah, you are just great.


Your time frame is off big time. I don't see why you're talking about Russians, though. You weren't even at war with anyone, especially not us.

The Vietcong were an experienced fighting force, and American troops were restricted to basically patrol duty. I've said all of this before. It's not a real measure of American strength.

We can find plenty of recent examples of Russia losing to lesser enemies in similiar types of combat situations. Afghanistan and Chechnya.


About "latest" russian equipment in Iraq - yeah, I laugh a lot, you consider those AK-47 as latest equipment? Maybe you name what latest and best Russian toys they have? As for russian tanks, well, every idiot says that without air support, tanks - easy targets.


I've already explained this.

I'll go over it again just for you, though:

SAM's
"By the summer of 1990, Iraq possessed 16,000 radar-guided and heatseeking surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), including the Soviet SA-2, SA-3, SA-6, SA-7, SA-8, SA-9, SA-13, SA-14, and SA-16, and the Franco-German Roland. Additional air defense was provided by Air Force interceptors and organic Army assets, including the SA-7/14, SA-8, SA-9/13, SA-16 missile systems, and the ZSU-23/4 self-propelled AAA system. In addition, the Iraqi air defense had more than 7,500 AAA pieces protecting all targets of value, some deployed on the roofs of numerous buildings in Baghdad housing government facilities. These weapons -- 57-mm and 37-mm AAA pieces, ZSU-23/4 and ZSU-57/2 self-propelled AAA systems, and hundreds of 14.5-mm and 23-mm light antiaircraft weapons -- formed the backbone of the integrated air defense network. In major high value target areas (such as Baghdad, airfields, chemical agent production complexes, and nuclear facilities) the combined arms air defense could prove lethal to aircraft operating below 10,000 feet."

Source - globalsecurity.org...

Airforce
Mig-23 - 90, Su-20/22 - 70, Su-25 - 60, Su-24 - 25, Mig-21 - 150, Mig-25 - 25, Mig-29 - 30

Tanks
T-72 - 1000, T-62 - 1500, T-55 - 1500, plus a few thousand more ripoffs of the T-55

The Iraqis also had an impressive amount of artillery which they bought from Russia.


1804-1813 - war with Persia - Persian army outnumbers Russian army in that region, we crushed them, Russia gains Dagestan, North Azerbaijan


Outnumbered? Hardly. The Russians had 1.2 million men to "Persia's" (I use that term very losely) had 100,000. It took the Russians 10 years to gain a rather small amount of land. It was a defensive war, as well.

Source - www.onwar.com...


1806-1812 - war with Turkey(started by them) - we capture fortresses: Isakcha, Tulcha, Badabag, Machin, Ismail, Brailov, Silstria, annexation of Besarabia. We almost destroyd their fleet in Afon battle, not a single russian ship was demaged.


This was a successful offensive campaign. At the same time, the numbers easily went to the Russians, and they were fighting against a crumbling Ottoman Empire. 1.2 million Russians fought against 400,000 Ottoman's. The Russians still took 70,000 casualties to 100,000 kills. That's a pretty tough fight, and much wasn't really achieved until the second war with Turkey.

Source - www.onwar.com...

Source - users.erols.com...


1817-1864 - Caucasian wars - Russia gains Chechnya, Mountain Dagestan, North-West Caucasus, also we gain Gilan, Mazenderan, Astrabad, Karlym Kaheti we fight against Turkey and Iran, they were supported by England, France and other European countries


This one I won't bother to look anything up for. They weren't even fighting competent armies.


1826-1826 - another war with Persia(Iran) - they outnumbered us again(in 3 times) and again they lost, we gain Echmidizin, Abbasabad, Nahichevan, Tebriz, Urmin, Ardebil, after peace treaty we gets Erivan and Nahichevan khanate, East Armenia. Persian yoke over Kaukasian people eliminated.


The Russians had over 1 million troops to a hundred thousand Iranians.

Source - www.onwar.com...


1828-1829 - war with Turkey - well, actually we fight with european nations for control over dying Osman Empire. Greece request Russia for help to gain independence. After blitzkrieg Russian forces surround Constantinople. Turkey signed peace treaty: Russia gains Caucasian coast of Black Sea and Aholcid. Greece gained independence, Serbia, Moldova, Valahia gained autonomy from Turkey


The casualties were about even, even though the Russians had a massive force.

Source - www.onwar.com...


1853-1856 - war with Osman Empire for domination in Middle East, after we destroy their fleet, England, France, Sardinia, Sweden, Austria declare war to Russia to prevent us from full domination in that region. After peace treaty Russia withdraw Black Sea fleet, only in 1870 we quit from this treaty.


This is the Crimean War, in which Russia got its asses kicked by the more modern European powers. This is when people stopped looking at Russia as a superpower.


1877-1878 - Russia declare war to Turkey, after this war Balkan nations granted independence from Turkey: Bulgaria freed, full independence for Romania, Serbia, Monte-Negro


Russia suffered huge casualties once again, and like always, had their huge number advantage.

Source - www.onwar.com...


That's just a small part of our wars and only in that region, we always fought with powerful enemies, not with a poor nations like you. Our military prove it's power for years.


You never fought with any powerful nations but the European powers once, and you lost badly.

The "Persians" were nothing, and still inflicted heavy casualties. The Ottoman Empire was crumbling, and ever European power was making grabs at their land.

Russia lost horribly in the Crimean War, the Japanese Russian War, and of course, WW1.

I've yet to see anything impressive from Russia's military.




posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
And what, the Romans were loved? It doesn't matter who people like. It matters who had the most impact, and who was the most powerful.
America has changed the world. The nations that want to rival us can only do so by becoming us. Russia and China has been forced to make a slow switch to capitalism, and ultimately democracy. Europe has been forced to join together to form a united Europe, just like our states.
America wouldn't even have had to become an "empire", and we'd still have been remember throughout history more then a nation like the Soviet Union. We've been changing the political landscape of the world since we won our independence.


Well the thing is during the roman times history was written by only the victorious..thats what I was saying before...now its different...There will be loads of documentation on the imperialistic attitude of the americans.

Also do not be so pompous to market democracy as an "american" product.
Countries which were anti-US in the cold war(India for example) were and still are democratic. Infact India is the largest democracy in the world. Nonetheless anti-americanism is at its all time high here. Same with the French.

The US as of now survives the very destability of its major opponents. Any alliance between major powers like Russia, China, and India would topple the whole unipolar nature of this planet. Even Brazil wants in on this anti-american alliance. Russia and China have been improving relations ever since the fall of USSR. India and Russia have always been allies. And recently India and China have begun t omakes confidence building moves by conducting joint anti terror exercises and sorting out border disputes.
The only "loose link" in this new axis is Pakistan. India si sour about
Pak-China relations and the US keeps boosting Pak ally status to try and complicate issues further. The US is playing the Pak trump to the fullest.Also by trying to improve relations with India the US is trying to keep the India-Russia-China axis from materialising..


And even youve got to agree that a Russia-China-Indioa alliance would be more than a match for any other alliance on the planet...militarily, technological ,resource wise, manpower....etc. etc.



posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 09:32 AM
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Well the thing is during the roman times history was written by only the victorious..thats what I was saying before...now its different...There will be loads of documentation on the imperialistic attitude of the americans.


There were more historical records then those left by the Romans.

And it goes beyond that. We remember the Romans so much today, more then other cultures because they gave the world so much.


Also do not be so pompous to market democracy as an "american" product.
Countries which were anti-US in the cold war(India for example) were and still are democratic. Infact India is the largest democracy in the world. Nonetheless anti-americanism is at its all time high here. Same with the French.


Democracy isn't an American product, but America inspired many nations to incorporate democracy.

India may not like to admit it, but when they were making their choice of government America came to mind. The French revolution was inspired by the American. Even the Russian revolution had its roots back to America.


The US as of now survives the very destability of its major opponents. Any alliance between major powers like Russia, China, and India would topple the whole unipolar nature of this planet. Even Brazil wants in on this anti-american alliance. Russia and China have been improving relations ever since the fall of USSR. India and Russia have always been allies. And recently India and China have begun t omakes confidence building moves by conducting joint anti terror exercises and sorting out border disputes.
The only "loose link" in this new axis is Pakistan. India si sour about


From what I've heard, India just doesn't like China.

I also know China and Russia don't trust each other. There was just as much tension between all three of them as there was between America.


Pak-China relations and the US keeps boosting Pak ally status to try and complicate issues further. The US is playing the Pak trump to the fullest.Also by trying to improve relations with India the US is trying to keep the India-Russia-China axis from materialising..


America works with India because they're developing into a strong nation. There's little chance India would start some alliance with China or Russia.


And even youve got to agree that a Russia-China-Indioa alliance would be more than a match for any other alliance on the planet...militarily, technological ,resource wise, manpower....etc. etc.


They'd have manpower, but they wouldn't have much else except potential.

All three of those nations are far behind America. Joining together won't suddenly put them ahead of us.



posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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Yes indeed america was chosen as an idol when Idnia deceide its form of governance, we have much to look up to w.r.t america..but that was pre WWII..ever since then and more so now post 9/11 that is the american popularity has dropped exponentially even amongst the populations of its allies.
Also indivisually the China, India and Russia maybe be inferior to the US but in what sense is the US 'ahead' of this 'dream alliance' of mine? Plz elaborate..

And the tensions between India china and russia are at their lowest ever..Russia and China have improved relations greatly in the last decade or so..don't write off the allince so easily.


ExD

posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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Wow!!!!!! the best example how history can be rewritten for the West, I'm under impression. Well, we're at least know truth, you only know crap, it's just funny that you don't know anything about real powers of that time. Stay in your dreams, idiot, you are dumb enough to be proud american citizen, and such sites only help you. Wow, I'm still under impression from this crap, never saw so much lie in one place. And after that you called yourself free, yeah. US just not worth to be the part of civilized world, and you teach your children SUCH history, wow, great. Ok, I know that your educational system is crap, and produce only idiots, but now.., wow, lie about ww2, lie about history of other countries, oh, what now? Maybe US invented gunpowder, guns, wheel, and Roman Empire was actually american? Can your children count integral, differential or doesn't know what is it? Do you know what is Teory of Systems, Theory of Relativity? Yeah, I forget that your goverment only wants idiots, who can be easily controlled. And after that you pretend to be the best? New alliances are forming, new superpowers are creating, you are just not worth to exsist. Country, who prefer write lie for their history, country, who can't give proper education to it's children, country, who thinks that others are nothing must be annihilated. I don't want to argue with such idiot, which "knowledge" based on lie.



posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by ExD
Wow!!!!!! the best example how history can be rewritten for the West, I'm under impression. Well, we're at least know truth, you only know crap, it's just funny that you don't know anything about real powers of that time. Stay in your dreams, idiot, you are dumb enough to be proud american citizen, and such sites only help you. Wow, I'm still under impression from this crap, never saw so much lie in one place. And after that you called yourself free, yeah. US just not worth to be the part of civilized world, and you teach your children SUCH history, wow, great. Ok, I know that your educational system is crap, and produce only idiots, but now.., wow, lie about ww2, lie about history of other countries, oh, what now? Maybe US invented gunpowder, guns, wheel, and Roman Empire was actually american? Can your children count integral, differential or doesn't know what is it? Do you know what is Teory of Systems, Theory of Relativity? Yeah, I forget that your goverment only wants idiots, who can be easily controlled. And after that you pretend to be the best? New alliances are forming, new superpowers are creating, you are just not worth to exsist. Country, who prefer write lie for their history, country, who can't give proper education to it's children, country, who thinks that others are nothing must be annihilated. I don't want to argue with such idiot, which "knowledge" based on lie.



One thing is absolutely true:

There is barely American-born and American educated great scientist. Almost none.

If we check all those famous physicist , chemists, most of them are from Europe.

If we check those "born in America" great (not super great) scientist, they are mostly second generations American.

Most original American (more then 3 generations) are born idiots. Most elegant American are from outside and other countries and move to USA and live around the coasts and northern cities. Basically, the second generation of these elegant American still okay, but third generations become a crap. Why? they will be surrounded by a bunch of idiots like this "disturbed" in the website.






[edit on 2-1-2005 by proteinx]

[edit on 2-1-2005 by proteinx]



posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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If yall can not debate this subject without calling each other names I suggest you dont post.



posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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And the tensions between India china and russia are at their lowest ever..Russia and China have improved relations greatly in the last decade or so..don't write off the allince so easily


It wouldn't change that all three want to be top dog, and China feels it doesn't need the help.

China could surpass America on its own if it plays its cards right, so why make a useless alliance with India or Russia? To create two future rivals for no reason?


Also indivisually the China, India and Russia maybe be inferior to the US but in what sense is the US 'ahead' of this 'dream alliance' of mine? Plz elaborate


The technology isn't suddenly going to increase. None of them really know much the others don't.


Yes indeed america was chosen as an idol when Idnia deceide its form of governance, we have much to look up to w.r.t america..but that was pre WWII..ever since then and more so now post 9/11 that is the american popularity has dropped exponentially even amongst the populations of its allies.


America has been wildly unpopular before. People hated Reagan as much as they do Bush. America didn't collapse then.

And could all of the varius Russians out there speaking in broken English try real arguments for a change, instead of calling all Americans dumb, ignorant and brainwashed? You know, real facts might be useful. How about a few sources to back up your claims for once?



posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 04:54 PM
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Whats wrong with broken english, aint thier language so dont start there.
Secondly do you trust no one?
Is your world full of liars backstabbers and cutthroats?



posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 05:58 PM
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Secondly do you trust no one?
Is your world full of liars backstabbers and cutthroats?


This whole alliance is just improbable.

Those great relations between China and Brazil everyone talks about are imaginary. I don't think allies rip each other off like Brazil is doing to China with oil.

China is a large threat to Russia, and plenty of tension remains between India and China.

The ONLY strong connection between these nations is weapons, and that won't last long. India and China are looking for domestic alternatives in the future, as Russia can no longer provide them with the weapons they need.



posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 08:26 PM
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A MOST fascinating thread. I give Siberian a 'way above'

What a web site (original link). Other than the constant Zionist/Satanist stuff almost any noun would suffice= NWO, CIA, Illuminati, World Bank and many more.

The web site was truly entertaining. This thread has been entertaining to the extreme! A few of the non-english posters may want to edit their word processors and mark *stupid* and *idiot* as no-no words. Just a suggestion.

I want to thank the MODs for NOT closing this thread. I am sure most of them (MODs) are Americans and much of what they read on threads like this has to get them. Such is the burden of power- eh?

I will mark this thread 'favorite' and do some searching for MIGs, Venezuela and such. The movie at www.vialls.com... is fascinating. Could underwater explosions have triggered the quake?(recent tsunami one)

I don't buy (Mr.)Vialls' conclusions but his presentation is more than entertaining. Having a US Nuclear AirCraft carrier involved as he (Vialls) suggests is more stretch than I am willing to make at the moment. However, he hopefully will come up with some more information on the oil rigs located near the epicenter of the recent quake/tsunami.
Also, HAARP should really interest him as it could tie in to this same event. Interesting perspective. Not unlike some on this board (ATS threads) have postulated.

One of my favorites:

Banshee
Do you know that one significant quake can set off a "chain reaction" in other areas of the world? It happens all the time. You might want to give the World Wide Seismic Event thread a look from the beginning for almost 9 months of research on both earthquakes (in swarms and singularly) and HAARP.


I also like his (Viall) treatment of the North Korean 'explosion' (recently) vis-a-vis tactical nuke.

On 3 August 2004, Reuters quoted Jane's as follows:
"North Korea is deploying new land- and sea-based ballistic missiles that can carry nuclear warheads and may have sufficient range to hit the United States, according to the authoritative Jane's Defense Weekly.
"In an article due to appear Wednesday, Jane's said the two new systems appeared to be based on a decommissioned Soviet submarine-launched ballistic missile, the R-27. It said communist North Korea had acquired the know-how during the 1990s from Russian missile specialists and by buying 12 former Soviet submarines which had been sold for scrap metal but retained key elements of their missile launch systems."

Like I said, very interesting. As an aside- why do Americans and Russians still argue about WW II?



posted on Jan, 2 2005 @ 10:52 PM
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Like I said, very interesting. As an aside- why do Americans and Russians still argue about WW II?



I can answer this question:

Because in "disturbed" heads:
American alone in WWII defeated all the "monster". Russian, Chinese and the whole Europe was sitting there saved by the "hero".
You see, some taiwanese people can find "LP" friends in USA too.








posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 12:02 AM
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(what is LP?)

I can't imagine America staying hooked if it had suffered the casualties any of the 'front line' countries suffered in WW II.

Americans don't deal with massive death of their own military very well-



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 12:04 AM
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I guess this is also figment of our imagination right? www.joevialls.co.uk...

[edit on 3-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 12:14 AM
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It's funny. He doesn't give a single example of what sites were removed. It's strange. If they removed those sites, why not remove his? Why is the American government allowing me to access this site?



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 12:24 AM
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Off topic for one second.
Prewyet ja nie gavariet po rusku...I butchered that
I was thinking about learning russian and its easier if you know polish right? I try to practice online but you ruskies use the intimidating alphabet.

Now for my stereotypes(researched from my russian and pure american friends):
The problem is russians and americans will always argue. They are two very different peoples.

Americans- well-mannered, higher standard of living, hard working, freindly, ambitous

Russians- tough, very festive, hard working, think with their hearts, strong family bonds

I compare both and see opposites. When the americans came into the russian club there was always fights. Russians and Americans don't mix and never will, they are total opposites.

Zdrowie

[edit on 3-1-2005 by Tomek_the_Terrible]



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 12:54 AM
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Oh man!
This has got to be one of the most hilarious threads ever started on ATS!


I haven't been on to many times since President Bush got re-elected, but I will be now(started a new job and not had the opportunity)!

Russia? China? Iran? Attack us?
Oh boy! My side is about to bust!


I needed a good laugh!



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 01:42 AM
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Keep thinkin everything is going well yank keeep thinkin, and you'll get a heart stoppin reality check verysoon very soon.



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 01:44 AM
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If America has the capability you seem to think, then I don't think Russia or China would stand much of a chance in a war.



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 01:48 AM
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KEEP THINKIN YANK your finish is acommin! and that stat of 12 million Russian soilders KIA is TOTALY wrong only 8.6 Million died. and we ain't gonna need China or India when we meet on the Battle field yank but you'll need plenty of your NATO buddies AND I ASSURE YOU THAT!!

[edit on 3-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

[edit on 3-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]




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