Texas On Brink Of Legalizing Concealed Carry At All Colleges

Okay, guns (and the freedom to carry and own them) are obviously a hotly debated topic, on here and everywhere. I'm a big fan of exercising our freedoms as individuals, but I'm a bigger fan of doing so only if you want to--if you are forced to exercise certain rights, what does that say about the factuality of individual freedoms?

Democrats, however, successfully attached an amendment that they hope will kill the bill. Rather than simply having the law apply to all public colleges, it will now apply to private ones as well. Some Democrats think this will cause Republicans to think twice before passage.

“Now that all colleges and universities are required to carry on campus, tomorrow morning there are going to be a number of very powerful people … who are going to say, ‘We better get sensible, practical and realistic about our gun policies,'” said Rep. Trey Martinez Fischer...

Now, I get that Democrats really, REALLY seem to dislike guns and the ability of individuals to have and carry them on their person, but I think this political tactic stinks to high heaven. The original bill, it seems, was only meant for this law to apply to public colleges and universities, and I would be perfectly okay with that. My opinion is that if you take state or federal money, you must do what daddy tells you.

But for the Democrats to tack on this amendment to force private colleges and universities to allow concealed carry on campus takes things too far. As an individual, I'm a huge advocate that, if you create a private company, you should be able to run it as you see fit. If you don't want people to swear in your establishment, that can be banned. If you don't want people talking during movies because it disturbs other people, you can throw them out. If you don't want to provide benefits such as health care to your employees, you shouldn't have to (although I don't think you'll get the best and brightest working for you...). The same goes with concealed carry--if Chipotle doesn't want me to carry a concealed weapon into their store, they should have that right, just as I have the right to eat somewhere else (which I do...not a fan of Chipotle).

The same should go for private colleges--if they don't want firearms on their campus, the state should not be allowed to force them to do so. While I think it's good policy to allow concealed carry, I just do not think that it should be a state-forced thing. If I were voting in Texas on this bill, I would have to vote it down based on this, and I hope that happens...the backhanded political tactic used this time by Dems should ensure this.

Many states already allow concealed carry on college campuses, but the Texas law will go further by enshrining it as an explicit right that must exist even if college administrators object.

I just can't support that--it's not in the true spirit of liberty and freedom.

The Daily Caller

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I think you are missing the point. The Democrats are doing this on purpose. They WANT you to object to the rider for whatever reasons so that the entire bill gets voted down. You are getting offended at the very point of the rider.

I, personally, think that enacting a slippery slope on purpose (instead of just whining about it as political rhetoric) is a bad idea, because you might just get what you are asking for. But hey, I don't live in Texas for a reason.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

But for the Democrats to tack on this amendment to force private colleges and universities to allow concealed carry on campus takes things too far.

Why is it a bad idea? Are the people going to private colleges and universities not citizens and so they do not have the right to carry? If people have the right to carry at one college or university then they have the right to carry at any college or university public or private.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Amazing and fantastic!

I don't see the problem with this, the second amendment has no qualifications.

If the Democrats want to enforce the second amendment for the wrong reasons, why complain?

a reply to: greencmp

This. I mean it's Texas we are talking about here. It's VERY likely that this plan is going to backfire on the Democrats and they are going to get EXACTLY what they are asking for. I'm actually kind of excited to watch this blow up in their faces.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes!

Personally I think this will backfire on the Dems. The law should be across the board. Private colleges should have no say if a law is passed that concealed carry is allowed in educational institutions statewide. Similar to how religious rights are affected via laws...this is no different.

Honestly, I don't understand why concealed carry is not allowed anywhere except places where alcohol is flowing and large gatherings that have a potential to get aggressive (sports events, concerts, etc....).

Anywho...not in TX so can't really say one way or the other. Sounds like it has passed already and I don't see the Republicans giving two craps over it being passed in private schools as well...

sounds good to me

What could possibly go wrong?

m.liveleak.com...

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Yes, concealed carry is legal everywhere.

There are just some uncontested unconstitutional restrictions that have yet to be removed.

originally posted by: Legman
sounds good to me

What could possibly go wrong?

m.liveleak.com...

Exactly, that sort of uncivilized behavior would disappear overnight.

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

-Robert A. Heinlein

originally posted by: Legman
sounds good to me

What could possibly go wrong?

m.liveleak.com...

Not worried about it....I am sure they will take care of themselves in the long run. Waste of air really, but I am sure they are all good kids.....mom fighting with her child in her arms was likely a valedictorian......

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: SlapMonkey

But for the Democrats to tack on this amendment to force private colleges and universities to allow concealed carry on campus takes things too far.

Why is it a bad idea? Are the people going to private colleges and universities not citizens and so they do not have the right to carry? If people have the right to carry at one college or university then they have the right to carry at any college or university public or private.

Just have to tip my hat to you buster, we have been in agreement on a couple of critical issues of paramount importance and I appreciate your contribution.

Im all for the right to have a concealed gun, I even have my own concealed permit. But I think may be a bit to much, for anyone, to carry on campus in Texas. There should be a seperate type of permit if your going to carry a gun on a campus, one that makes it a little harder to get, maybe some actual training for people who do decide this is what they want to do. I know that when I went for my Concealed permit, there was a 6 hour lecture and a 15 minute actual shooting course, to show you know how to handle a gun. So really as long as your background is clean and you can pull the trigger, your were able to get a concealed permit. This is asking for trouble.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I have a CHL here in TX, and there is still room in the law for private businesses / schools, etc. to restrict concealed carry as long as they post their ordinance (called a 30-06 sign, ironically enough). There is also debate about private property owners giving you notice that they don't want concealed carry on their property (i.e. they can tell you verbally, or post a sign) however if the sign doesn't state the exact 30-06 code in a certain font, a certain size, in English and Spanish it is debatable if it can be considered legal notice.

I personally prefer Constitutional carry (why should I have to pay the State for a natural right to self-defense), but in terms of this specific law, I think the amendment highlights either the democrats ignorance of current laws on the books, or as y'all have mentioned a political tactic to get this bill voted down.

A similar issue is going on with the open carry bill in TX - someone added an amendment to specify that cops can't stop and question someone just for open carrying to check their license (this is already clearly covered by the 4th amendment, they would stop after enough lawsuits), but the amendment being in there is now forcing a committee and possible down votes, and could kill the bill...

originally posted by: Glassbender777 But I think may be a bit to much, for anyone, to carry on campus in Texas.

Can you please clarify what you mean by this? Are you saying Texas in particular, or what?

The same laws as off campus would still apply, i.e. no concealed carry in places that earn 51% or more from alcohol sales, etc. How is a college campus any different than say Billy Bob's honkey tonk in Fort Worth? I know plenty of folks who are old enough to drink, who drink A LOT, and who have CHLs but adhere to the laws and don't carry when they're out to party.

If I'm off to hit the bars, the Sig stays home kind of thing.

originally posted by: Vasa CroeHonestly, I don't understand why concealed carry is not allowed anywhere except places where alcohol is flowing and large gatherings that have a potential to get aggressive (sports events, concerts, etc....).

Ever been to a modern lecture hall or campus? They always have a potential to get aggressive these days.

And I never said that private colleges should have a say in if a law is passed, I said that a private entity should be able to choose if they want to allow concealed carry. If I owned my own business, I wouldn't want the government telling me what I must allow on my premises--would you?

originally posted by: Glassbender777
Im all for the right to have a concealed gun, I even have my own concealed permit. But I think may be a bit to much, for anyone, to carry on campus in Texas. There should be a seperate type of permit if your going to carry a gun on a campus, one that makes it a little harder to get, maybe some actual training for people who do decide this is what they want to do. I know that when I went for my Concealed permit, there was a 6 hour lecture and a 15 minute actual shooting course, to show you know how to handle a gun. So really as long as your background is clean and you can pull the trigger, your were able to get a concealed permit. This is asking for trouble.

I think that this is the oft-used argument that just doesn't work. The vast majority of college kids will not want a weapon, let alone to carry it concealed. Those who do, though, should have that right, and I don't think that those responsible enough to go through what it takes to get a permit will create a situation that "is asking for trouble," as you put it.

That said, I fully agree that an educational course must be a part of the permit process--if for no other reason, as a reminder not to carry when under the influence of alcohol, as long as discussing proper storage of firearms in a (possibly) shared dorm room environment.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I somehow think I would be able to control myself if I was carrying concealed and debating the finer points of Plato or Socrates...

To be serious, some of my best friends and my wife were at VA Tech when the shooting happened. Imagine if Liviu Librescu who survived the holocaust and blocked the door to the classroom for a while to let his students escape had a concealed handgun and could have returned fire? Imagine if anyone in those classrooms had had a concealed license? I don't think we would have lost 32 souls that day.

All logic goes back to the basic premise that criminals will not obey the laws, period. I mean, VA Tech didn't allow guns on campus but somehow the law didn't stop tragedy.

originally posted by: [post=19394362]buster2010[/postWhy is it a bad idea? Are the people going to private colleges and universities not citizens and so they do not have the right to carry? If people have the right to carry at one college or university then they have the right to carry at any college or university public or private.

I explained it in my original post--I don't agree with the state forcing a private entity to do something that it doesn't want to do.

Like SonOfThor posted after your reply to me, a law already exist in TX that allow private entities to post a sign that tells people that they do not allow concealed firearms, and I am in agreement with that. If this law passes as amended by the Dems, it will force a private entity to allow concealed firearms, even if they owners/board members/whomever assert their position that they do not.

I'm not okay with government mandates on private businesses like that. THAT's why I consider this a bad thing. If it's voluntary, I'm 100% for it...but as written, it is not voluntary.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: Vasa CroeHonestly, I don't understand why concealed carry is not allowed anywhere except places where alcohol is flowing and large gatherings that have a potential to get aggressive (sports events, concerts, etc....).

Ever been to a modern lecture hall or campus? They always have a potential to get aggressive these days.

And I never said that private colleges should have a say in if a law is passed, I said that a private entity should be able to choose if they want to allow concealed carry. If I owned my own business, I wouldn't want the government telling me what I must allow on my premises--would you?

Well....that is where you get into the sticky situation of if you do business with the public. If patrons that do carry want to come to your business and buy your goods/services/etc, then as a business serving the public you are infringing on their rights as a citizen with the right to carry.

So it seems this fight is being done in order for the dems to raise the same issues as are being raised with gay/religious rights at restaurants and whatnot.....I would bet you a dollar that is why they are going this route. I will bet you another dollar we will start seeing lawsuits and allegations popping up the same as gay/religious ones have been lately.