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Ayn Rand's Influence on the 21st Century

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posted on May, 26 2015 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs
I heard it sold a lot of copies more then Ayn Rands books. But who knows, lets hope it does not as well turn into a political ideology as well. I mean don't get me wrong, she was a good writer, a semi good philosopher, but nothing more, her philosophies coincided with a lot of things in America at that place and time. But there was a reason why all of them left Russia in those days in a hurry. Because they could not handle the heat so moved to greener pastures.

Place and time, you would not believe how much hinges on those two things.




posted on May, 26 2015 @ 09:54 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6
That's not a some mystery. That's what they call none to common, common sense. Tell me? If in all of history if any group or person or people got in power and if for all of history it has been shown that even the best among them eventually become tyrannical eventually.

Well what would you say all of that would mean? Old grim beard is right, and he should know, hes a god after all. In time everything falls, and power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, those lowly mortals should be glad the gods don't bother in there affairs or require burnt sacrifices anymore or all the other little pet peeves of theirs, or the human race would really be in the # then.

If this was a status chart which showed the probabilities of in any given person or group or thing in power. Well it would point out to one thing. That it should be avoided, because 100% of the time that it has happened, ever, in all of history, and prehistory, even in small things and large things and even among the best. Eventually it has turned out to be a nightmare.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: galadofwarthethird


But there was a reason why all of them left Russia in those days in a hurry. Because they could not handle the heat so moved to greener pastures.

Interestingly, my own paternal great-grandparents left Prussia (Poland) right about that time. They were Lutherans, very well educated, ethnically German, and well off. Intellectuals.

My dad used to tell us that his aunt told him, "If we lived in Russia we'd be royalty."
Which, of course, he 'paraphrased' to me, a little girl, that I would be "a princess."
I have no idea if it's true or not - but yeah, my dad's grandparents were part of the Prussian Emigration thing.
The Volhynians - from Odessa. German Lutheran Settlers in Poland. Prussians.


edit on 5/26/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 10:09 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs
Who knows, it could be but you would not be the only one that's for sure. When the Lenin and Stalin and company got into power they really cleaned house, if you know what I mean. Its like say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss. But you know, progress and all that.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 10:15 PM
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And if they stayed, they'd be dead royalty.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

# 442


edit on 26-5-2015 by TheWhiteKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 10:41 PM
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a reply to: TheWhiteKnight


And if they stayed, they'd be dead royalty.
Yeah.
Something like that.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 11:15 PM
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a reply to: TrappedPrincess

If someone hears Rand's message, "honestly", then I would like to think that they had critical thinking skills and came to the conclusion I and myself in this thread have come to.

Others, not so much. It happens.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs



I just wanted to bring it up for everyone to learn and discuss about the influence she had.

Personally, I think I would have despised her, although I agree with SOME of what she says.

Sorry I'm late to the party.

It wasn't too long after I had read Atlas Shrugged that Ayn Rand was a guest on Phil Donahue show, late 79/early80.

The hate being thrown her way was very appalling. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And Phil didn't even bother to try to moderate it. I never watched Donahue again.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 11:58 PM
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a reply to: pthena


Sorry I'm late to the party.

It wasn't too long after I had read Atlas Shrugged that Ayn Rand was a guest on Phil Donahue show, late 79/early80.

The hate being thrown her way was very appalling.

Interesting.

Do you notice the "hate" she throws toward others?
Or just the "hate" thrown towards her?

Like I said, some of her points I agree with totally - others I find reprehensible.
Taken overall, at this point in my 'acquaintace' with her views, I think she is not someone I would befriend or with whom I would sympathize.
Just really ugly. But - that's just me.



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:06 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko
Amen Ketsuko. You understand the lesson. And you tell it well.



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:12 AM
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FTR:

Personally I don't give two shakes about Ayn Rand the human being. I never met her and have no opinion on her as a person. For all I know she and I might have things in common that don't come up in casual interactions ( like a love of animals or appreciation for art ).

What I very much dislike is the message presented in Atlas Shrugged and the way it has been interpreted, idealized and turned into a political theology. And, yes, I say "theology" deliberately, as opposed to "ideology". That is to say that those who believe in that approach believe in it religiously and tend to combine it with a Christian spin.

The fact that Christ would have a mini-stroke over the association seems lost on so many and it boggles my mind. It's like starting a violent biker gang and then claiming that your club is actually based upon the teachings of Gandhi - just tweaked to apply to meth sales and killing people.

Ultimately my main nit to pick here is that even using the term "meritocracy" to describe the ideals presented is misleading. It implies ( as does the modern "prosperity Gospel or Doctrine" - which probably explains the Christianity tie-in ) that wealth is the natural result of talent, ability, ingenuity or plain old hard work.

Reality shows, over and over again that this is not necessarily the case at all. Steve Jobs, for example - never created anything in his entire life. His gift was for knowing which ideas, of others, were worth stealing. Same for Bill Gates.

The Hughes fortune? Created by a revolutionary drill bit design that the elder Hughes purchased from a genius who was too drunk or stupid to patent it and sold it for next to nothing.

So, if history is our indicator then the ideal of Capitalism is not any of the traits that they tout as being their belief system - but is actually the love and praise of opportunism.... the very insult they hurl at everyone who disagrees with them.

Irony. It's fun and real kids.



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: Hefficide


That is to say that those who believe in that approach believe in it religiously and tend to combine it with a Christian spin.

The fact that Christ would have a mini-stroke over the association seems lost on so many and it boggles my mind. It's like starting a violent biker gang and then claiming that your club is actually based upon the teachings of Gandhi - just tweaked to apply to meth sales and killing people.


Yes!!!!
And that's what I don't understand, either.
It's a huge disconnect.

But so far, it seems to be verboten to compare her views to the Christian-Moral-Majority-Right-Wingers who hold her up as a hero....when she was clearly as unChristian as people can be.

I am hoping that people who profess Christianity and a monopoly of the moral high ground will realize how disparate her views are from theirs.

She was NOT a 'nice' person.



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:18 AM
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Consider me guilty of not reading this entire thread. I'm confused about whether we're debating Ayn Rand, the beliefs (hypocrises of) Christians, Conservatives (many of the them Christians), Conservatives (fiscal or social), Socialists, Libertarians, etc. I can tell you as a social libertarian, conservative, non-sectarian business owner that her words speak to me. IS there some narcissism. Yes. Is it sometimes called upon by business leaders to be strong of spirit and resolute (others would say narcissistic), yes. Am i the product of someone that escaped a communist country and fought hard and taught me to work like a dog, because work is a privilege to establish myself. Yes. Was I taught to give, in charity...not because it was required (split your sandwich...it's only fair) but instead find ways to provide many sandwiches. In fact...even better teach someone to fish and be self-sufficient and they'll eat forever neither needing your sandwich, or someone else's next week, but they may build something bigger that could feed many. That's what I come from, and that's what I think of when I think of Ayn Rand.



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: Losonczy


Consider me guilty of not reading this entire thread. I'm confused about whether we're debating Ayn Rand, the beliefs (hypocrises of) Christians, Conservatives (many of the them Christians), Conservatives (fiscal or social), Socialists, Libertarians, etc. I can tell you as a social libertarian, conservative, non-sectarian business owner that her words speak to me.

We're talking about all of those things.

(She denounced "Conservatives", btw. She thought they were way off base.
It's worth reading and learning about, I think.)

She's more of a "Bankster" than she is a "Conservative."



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:22 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs


Like I said, some of her points I agree with totally - others I find reprehensible.

Ayn Rand is dead. She is not flinging hate at anyone.

If you had noticed, on religion threads I don't join in on bashing the "faith alone" crowd.

The reason being, Altruism cannot be forced. Which is what the "faith & works" crowd attempts to do.

Her views were her views. Anybody who wants to follow those views, well, that's on them.

Example: My older brother was complaining to me about a client of his being racist. The guy was a retired airline pilot. At that point, who should care if the guy is racist or not. He isn't setting policy for a government, renting agency, corporation, retail outlet, nothing. So why should it matter?

edit on 27-5-2015 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: pthena


why should it matter?

Yes, she is dead.
She's gone.
But her 'books' continue to sell upwards of 1 million copies annually, and MANY Conservative factions that are very much into religion hold her up as a superhero. Also, of course, the secular money-hoarders and Wall-Street scum.

But the big issue I saw (and by which I was prompted to start this thread) was that many who ride beneath her banner don't know what she was all about. I wanted to bring it all to light. To try to ensure that everyone understands what she was really talking about, and not just parroting something they thought they heard or read.
She was NOT a nice person. She was NOT, in any way, shape or form, a "Christian." She was a ruthless, selfish, eccentric person who spoke and wrote eloquently.



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: Hefficide

Again, you're running things to the far end of the spectrum, Heff. (Which is ironic because you have criticized me in the past for focusing on the truly lazy scammers living off the system and there are a damn sight more of them than there are Billionaires.)

When you look at the bread and butter of middle to upper middle class America, you've got people who bust their asses, take risks, invest in themselves, and haven't screwed anybody over to get what they have. Those folks are seeing more and more of what they have taken away from them by the government and it often goes straight to those below them on the ladder. The extremely wealthy will eventually leave America (Lord knows I'd have checked out years ago if I had the means) and when they do, it won't be the poor that feel the sting... It will be the middle class as the feds turn to us and say "you've given before, but you surely have more in you."

"Keep working, millions on welfare depend on you" yet we can't list those dependents on our yearly taxes. Boo! Hiss! God I hate the IRS.



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:40 AM
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a reply to: Hefficide

This verse is always present in my head the last few years:
5"For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. 6"You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.…

Prosperity doctrine is a doctrine of man Christ never preached this message and what of all the poor who have toiled throughout history Since his resurrection? false doctrine deceiving many

The fear in America since 9/11 gladly giving away liberty for security from the group told not to fear.

Ayn Rand and her message is against the teachings of Christ yet so many believe like its the new religion, scary stuff for sure.

Fox news is well known for telling outright lies upto 60% of the time, yet so many are so deceived, but Fox isn't the only one telling lies you can trust all media is lying to you.

If humans would have embraced her mad theology before the stone age we would have gone extinct before creating civilization.
edit on 27-5-2015 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:52 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs



But the big issue I saw (and by which I was prompted to start this thread) was that many who ride beneath her banner don't know what she was all about. I wanted to bring it all to light. To try to ensure that everyone understands what she was really talking about, and not just parroting something they thought they heard or read.

Kudos for you. And kudos for taking the coarse. I vaguely remember at least checking off Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology on an order form. I don't remember ever getting the book. So I'm one of the people unfamiliar with her non-fiction writings.

Perhaps I will at least read a summary somewhere.

Can you tie her in with Neo-Liberalism? Is Libertarianism tied in with Neo-Liberalism? Or is it the "Conservatives" that you're mostly focused on?

Here's a little something:

But the progress of Randian scholarship has by no means been a straight line of ascent. The Old Guard who knew Rand looks with unconcealed horror at the new scholarship exploring the genesis and structure of objectivist theory. Nor would the grande dame herself have been pleased by all this academic attention: She once threatened to sue a professor for writing a critical study of her work.

And yet Rand's very status as an intellectual outsider has won her work admission into the countercultural canon. The news will not have reached undergraduates, still giddy at seeing the world from the heights of Atlas Shrugged. But Ayn Rand--already a perennial, even a classic, of American popular culture--has entered the academic marketplace, big time.

THE HEIRS OF AYN RAND: HAS OBJECTIVISM GONE SUBJECTIVE?, Scott McLemee


ETA

I guess that wasn't a bad find. She ran that Collective of hers with all the charisma and totalitarianism of any religious cult leader. All of her serious work ended in the late 60s and she pretty much coasted on her laurels from then, while maintaining a harsh proprietary ownership of Orthodox Objectivism, complete with shunning the heretics.
edit on 27-5-2015 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 03:00 AM
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I think the philosophy of how we should live and behave toward each other should not be chosen by thinking, but instead it should be more pragmatic - it should be determined by results through observation.

If we observe that a particular culture or philosophy is producing ill results, (the opposite of well-being) then we should not pursue that way of life or philosophy.



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