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Indian Defense Ministry clears $3.1 Billion deal with US for 15 Chinook, 22 Apache Helicopters

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posted on May, 26 2015 @ 03:47 AM
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Defence minister Manohar Parrikar has sent the proposals to buy 22 AH-64D Apache Longbow attack and 15 CH-47F Chinook heavy-lift copters — both platforms manufactured by US defence giant Boeing — to the finance ministry for clearance, a government official said on Monday.

The proposals have clauses to place follow-on orders for 11 more Apaches and four extra Chinooks. Both platforms have seen combat in Afghanistan and Iraq. Boeing had beaten off competition from Russia, which had offered its Mi-28N Night Hunter and Mi-26 heavy-lift copters to the IAF.

The US is currently the biggest supplier of weapons to the Indian military, having won deals worth over $10 billion during the last six years.



Well looks like more Defense deals are on the cards when Mr. Ashton Carter visits India. Though one must be careful to not look this as snubbing Russia but simply buying the best available weapons platforms out there. India's relationship with both the west and Russia allows India to purchase weapon platform from any country depending on the requirements. I strongly believe Apache and Chinooks got the deal due to the extensive combat experience these Helicopters had in Afghanistan and Iraq.




posted on May, 26 2015 @ 04:57 AM
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a reply to: maddy21

I'm guessing they will use these in Cashmere. Expect stories on the news about India and Pakistan having heated battles in the mountains.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 06:35 AM
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India is the most popular Belle-at-the-Ball in Asia right now. The three major players in Asia in the 21st Century are Russia, China and India. And None of them trust each other very much. India, widely considered the weakest of the three - yet still a force to be reckoned with - is constantly being courted.

For example, Russian company Sukhoi is developing it's 5th Generation fighter-jet with the Indians, the PAK-fa. There are numerous other arms deals between India and European arms-manufacturing countries to try and keep India from a too-cozy relationship with Russia or China. And India is more than willing to accept French, British and American help to try and maintain it's independence from it's Asian neighbours.

For every deal that India cuts with Russia, expect an American, French or British arms deal to follow. (And try not to think too much about what that means for the West's relationship with Pakistan, that will only confuse and anger you.)



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 06:38 AM
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a reply to: Leonidas

The FGFA is in trouble. Russia ran into issues with the T-50, which led to India slashing their order and being very unhappy with what they're getting.

India just dumped a lot of money into it, largely because at this point they almost have to go ahead with it as their options are limited.
edit on 5/26/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 06:50 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Leonidas

The FGFA is in trouble. Russia ran into issues with the T-50, which led to India slashing their order and being very unhappy with what they're getting.

India just dumped a lot of money into it, largely because at this point they almost have to go ahead with it as their options are limited.


That's incorrect, FGFA is in progress. Its the Rafael deal with France which is dead. The deal to buy 126 jets have been reduced to just 36 jets.
Majority of the news you get from Media about FGFA is BS...

in.rbth.com...

Russia has successfully sabotaged the French Rafeal deal and instead the money is being pumped to FGFA. That's - $20Billion for france


edit on 26-5-2015 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 07:27 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Why anyone would consider a Russian designed, Indian engineered elite fighter-jet a good idea was always beyond me.

I don't think it is any surprise - or a coincidence - that India just announced they are buying dozens of French built Dassault Rafales.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 07:29 AM
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originally posted by: Leonidas
a reply to: Zaphod58

Why anyone would consider a Russian designed, Indian engineered elite fighter-jet a good idea was always beyond me.

I don't think it is any surprise - or a coincidence - that India just announced they are buying dozens of French built Dassault Rafales.


The Number was reduced from 126 Rafael to just 36 and the money for the rest will most likely be transfered over to FGFA. The idea is to use part of the money intended for Rafael's for FGFA and the other part for Indigenously developed LCA.
edit on 26-5-2015 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 07:35 AM
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a reply to: maddy21

A slight correction there...Russia is making a very lucrative bribe to India to NOT kill the T-50/Pak-FA. If MIC loses the India deal, the company is in trouble.

The deal just announced for the French built Rafales is for IMMEDIATE "fly away" delivery. They paid to jump to the front of the order-book because the Suhkoi deal is not working.

That is not to say that 5th Gen fighters dont have development problems. The F-35/JSF has serious problems. The F-22 has deployment issues. But Russia cannot deliver and it's problems with the India partnership are not being helped by it's current economic problems.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 08:21 AM
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originally posted by: Leonidas
a reply to: maddy21

A slight correction there...Russia is making a very lucrative bribe to India to NOT kill the T-50/Pak-FA. If MIC loses the India deal, the company is in trouble.


India isn't going to kill the FGFA deal, FGFA is a joint Indo-Russian project. The project was never in trouble as opposed too what western Media wanted to project.


originally posted by: Leonidas
The deal just announced for the French built Rafales is for IMMEDIATE "fly away" delivery. They paid to jump to the front of the order-book because the Suhkoi deal is not working.


Yes, It was the deal for 126 Rafael's which is canceled entirely and that deal converted to 36 Rafael's in fly away condition.
French lost the plot in this deal and they lost around $15-20 Billion.


originally posted by: Leonidas
That is not to say that 5th Gen fighters don't have development problems. The F-35/JSF has serious problems. The F-22 has deployment issues. But Russia cannot deliver and it's problems with the India partnership are not being helped by it's current economic problems.


The PAK-FA and FGFA project is a joint Indo-Russian Project, it is not a Russian project alone. India will be putting in more than $20 Billion on the project. India will be receiving the first FGFA around 2018. It doesn't make sense for India to purchase large quantities of Rafael at the moment other than a stop gap measure.
edit on 26-5-2015 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: maddy21

You need to back and re-read what was written.

The panic purchase of the Rafales is in response to a desperate need that the FGFA *cannot* fulfill. The only reason the Russo-Indian partnership is still ongoing is because of the amount of sunk resources both have poured down it. It survives more as a result of bureaucratic inertia than anything else. And since you seem to be aware of the realities of the Indian economy I am sure you are more than well aware of the Leviathan that is the Indian Bureaucracy.

The FGFA partnership may continue to exist, but that is about the best thing that can be said about it. For reasons grander than the PAK-fa, the Russian/Indian relationship will continue with Rupees and Rubles being poured down it's throat.

India is very conscious of not becoming a slave to their relationship with Russia and will continue to buy from Western arms manufacturers as a result. It would please Russia no end if India would turn away from the West, but India is far to wise to do so.

India will not put all it's eggs in one basket.
edit on 26-5-2015 by Leonidas because: spelling



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: maddy21

If it wasn't in trouble why were the numbers cut so drastically and all the two seat versions canceled? Why are there verifiable quotes about how unhappy India is with both progress and performance at this point?

The Russians found out the hard way that stealth is hard to work with, and found out after making unrealistic promises about the aircraft.

Considering the FGFA cut was announced LONG before the deal with France, no, I don't have them confused.

thediplomat.com...
edit on 5/26/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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And so it begins......



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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India has been unhappy with what it has been getting from the Russians for awhile. Late shipments, never arriving shipments and defective systems were overlooked for awhile to keep ties good with Russia. However, as Russia's as a great power continues its decline India has made its move to diversify its weapons buying. This of course with mostly China in mind. Now with the new surge in activity among the Japanese, Indian, US trilateral, you have 3 powers working with the same goal. Get China to chill out and if China does not to be ready to deal with her. The US, India and Japan have been actively working with the other states in region as well.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 06:55 PM
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a reply to: MrSpad

Things are getting interesting in Asia. We have the US putting together a design group to help India build an aircraft carrier, which could include nuclear power, and EMALS, Japan and the Philippines holding a joint exercise, and Japan giving Vietnam patrol craft to bolster their navy.



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:24 AM
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originally posted by: Leonidas
a reply to: maddy21

The panic purchase of the Rafales is in response to a desperate need that the FGFA *cannot* fulfill. The only reason the Russo-Indian partnership is still ongoing is because of the amount of sunk resources both have poured down it. It survives more as a result of bureaucratic inertia than anything else. And since you seem to be aware of the realities of the Indian economy I am sure you are more than well aware of the Leviathan that is the Indian Bureaucracy.


Incorrect, the Rafael's was supposed to fill the platform of the MIg-21 Bison and FGFA is supposed to fill the Sukhoi's and the Mig29s . The Delay in deals and Acquisition of the Rafael for years and years has lead to the cancellation of the deal. Indigenously developed LCA will replace the Mig 21 and the FGFA will replace the Sukhoi's and the Migs.


originally posted by: Leonidas
The FGFA partnership may continue to exist, but that is about the best thing that can be said about it. For reasons grander than the PAK-fa, the Russian/Indian relationship will continue with Rupees and Rubles being poured down it's throat.


As apposed to western propaganda, the FGFA is running on schedule and Russia is due to get its first squadron of PAK-FA in 2017 and FGFA squadron will arrive by 2018. The sudden purchase of Rafeals in ready condition by India is as a stop gap measure.


originally posted by: Leonidas
India is very conscious of not becoming a slave to their relationship with Russia and will continue to buy from Western arms manufacturers as a result. It would please Russia no end if India would turn away from the West, but India is far to wise to do so.


On the contrary India will purchase its own products. India has been developing many defense systems on its own. From Astra Air to air missile
Artillery, Guns, fighter planes, cruise missiles , Helicopters, SAMs , BMD's etc.. Within a few years imports from all nations will most likely decrease drastically.


originally posted by: Leonidas
India will not put all it's eggs in one basket.


They aren't
edit on 27-5-2015 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:35 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: maddy21
If it wasn't in trouble why were the numbers cut so drastically and all the two seat versions canceled? Why are there verifiable quotes about how unhappy India is with both progress and performance at this point?

The Russians found out the hard way that stealth is hard to work with, and found out after making unrealistic promises about the aircraft.

Considering the FGFA cut was announced LONG before the deal with France, no, I don't have them confused.

thediplomat.com...


Rafael is not a replacement for the FGFA, India needs a 5th generation fighter and it is most certainly going to be T-50 PAk-FA . Yes, it isn't easy to build an 5th generation fighter but there is really not as big as a problem between India and Russia.

rt.com...


India is now ready to invest $25 billion in the development and purchase of 127 fifth-generation stealth fighter aircraft (FGFA). It will also make concessions to speed up the delivery of fighters and have the first ones available in 36 months instead of the previously envisaged 94 months, sources told


The Nature of the deal changed, thats why the numbers were cut. Not because India was unhappy with the quality of the fighters.


The initial contract signed with Moscow implied a 50:50 design and production agreement to develop an Indian version of Russia’s Sukhoi T-50 (PAK-FA) 5G fighter jet. The $295-million preliminary design contract signed in December 2010 envisaged the creation of a two-seat version of the PAK-FA and preconditioned that all single-pilot fighters must be assembled in India at the Ozar facility owned by India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) aerospace and defense company


Both single seat and the double seat fighters will begin production in Russia for faster Delivery. The rest of the Aircrafts will be built in India. India will purchase double seater version. India is absolutely in love with it at the moment.



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 12:45 AM
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originally posted by: MrSpad
India has been unhappy with what it has been getting from the Russians for awhile. Late shipments, never arriving shipments and defective systems were overlooked for awhile to keep ties good with Russia. However, as Russia's as a great power continues its decline India has made its move to diversify its weapons buying. This of course with mostly China in mind. Now with the new surge in activity among the Japanese, Indian, US trilateral, you have 3 powers working with the same goal. Get China to chill out and if China does not to be ready to deal with her. The US, India and Japan have been actively working with the other states in region as well.


India is simply buying the best equipment out there. The Aircraft carrier purchase from Russia was a problem with both India and Russia. India did not make a proper analysis of that ship before purchase and hence after the deal was signed they found out the entire internal wiring and components had to be replaced, Adding another few years into refurbishment. Neither did Russia nor did India want the delay.

Funny thing is India,China and Russia are the largest share holders of AIIB. India has been playing both sides of the coin for a while now. Its only going to go so far before we are forced to choose a side.

India's dealing with Russia on all the sphere's other than defense has been increasing

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 05:41 AM
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a reply to: maddy21

Do you even read anything anyone else posts? It's not Western Propaganda. I posted an article using INDIAN sources. The two seat version is canceled, the order was cut by 1/3rd, and the Russian version was cut to 12. It had nothing to do with the nature of the deal changing, and everything to do with India being unhappy with delays and overruns.

I never said Rafale was a replacement.

Let me make it easier for you.


Fresh tensions in Indo-Russian
bilateral ties are bound to surface
soon as India is set to cut its Fifth
Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA)
order by one-third. India will now
be inducting only 144 FGFA instead
of the originally scheduled 214.
The reduced purchase size could be
to accommodate potential interest
in the Lockheed Martin F-35A
aircraft, which had earlier been
rejected by both the Indian Air
Force and the Defense Ministry.
Both of these organizations have
denied the F-35 rumors.
Significantly, all of the 144 FGFA
India now intends to purchase will
be single-seater jets. Earlier, the
Indian Air Force planned to
procure 214 units– 166 single-
seaters and 48 twin-seaters.
According to sources, India’s
decision to reduce the number of
jets it will purchase was driven
primarily by two overarching
concerns: production delays and
cost over-runs, both of which have
been major irritants in Indo-
Russian defense ties.

indiandefence.com...


All the 127 single-seat fighters that India hopes to induct are to be built at the Ozar facility of Hindustan Aeronautics in Nashik. In fact, the first Indian FGFA prototype was earlier slated to reach Ozar by 2014, with the second and third following in 2017 and 2019.

"But this obviously cannot happen now. The project's full R&D phase will also be pushed back to 2021-2022, only after which HAL will begin manufacturing the fighters," said the source.

India has repeatedly rebuffed overtures made by the US for joining its Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) or the F-35 'Lightning-II' programme. Now, having sunk in a lot of time and money into the FGFA project with Russia, it has no option but to pursue it.

But it has reduced the required numbers from an earlier 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat 5th Gen fighters to just 127 single-seat ones. It was felt that the twin-seat option would reduce the stealth features and add weight as well as make the fighter much more expensive.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

I supposed the Times of India is a Western Propaganda source too, right? India is not "absolutely in love with it" at the moment. They're upset because Russia isn't giving them the access they want, it's way over budget, and it's well behind schedule, as India won't get their first aircraft until the mid-2020s.

How about Sputnik? Is that Western Propaganda too?


India is cutting its order for a fifth-generation stealth fighter being developed jointly with Russia by a third, India's Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne told India Strategic.
India is cutting its order for a fifth-generation stealth fighter being developed jointly with Russia by a third, India's Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne told India Strategic.

India's Hindustan Aeronatics Limited (HAL) is to build the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), a derivative of the Sukhoi T-50, in India. The two nations signed a 50/50 joint venture to build the aircraft in December 2011.

sputniknews.com...


As for Russia, they just cut their initial order to 12 aircraft. The T-50 won't be entering service until 2020 or beyond, if they even buy any past the initial 12.


The military may buy a smaller number of fifth generation T-50 fighter jets (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation – PAK FA) than earlier planned, Deputy Defence Minister in charge of Armaments, Yuri Borisov, has said.
According to Kommersant, the military will buy only 12 fighters initially and, after their operational testing and commissioning, will decide on how many more aircraft of this type it can afford. They had previously made commitments to acquire 52 aircraft according to the State Armament Program until 2020.

Borisov announced the likely reduction in the total purchases during a visit to the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Plant, adding, “the company is ready to start mass production of the fifth generation fighter starting in 2016”.
However, the Deputy Minister added, the Ministry of Defence reserves the right to revise the number of units purchased. “Given the new economic conditions, the original plans may have to be adjusted,” he explained. “It is better to have the PAK FA kept as a reserve, and later move forward, while squeezing everything possible for now out of the 4+ generation fighters (Su-30 and Su-35 – Kommersant).

in.rbth.com...

I suppose the the Deputy Defense Minister in charge of Armaments is Western Propaganda too, right?

You're wrong, and won't admit it.

edit on 5/27/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2015 @ 07:01 AM
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a reply to: maddy21

More:


Aviation Week spoke to three senior officers at IAF headquarters in New Delhi days after service chief Arup Raha publicly bemoaned delays in negotiations with Russia and the overall program itself. The picture they presented is a dire one. Effectively, the IAF believes it has lost control over a program it had sought to guide from the start when the first agreement was signed in 2008. Military planners within the IAF are unhappy on three fronts:

One, the work share split between India and Russia, initially proposed to be equal, now stands at a highly skewed 75-25, with India’s share of the work in danger of slipping even further. The reasons: with the IAF already whittling down its projected requirement in 2012 from 214 aircraft (a mix of 166 single seaters and 48 twin-seat) to 144 single seaters, Indian state-run manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.’s (HAL) role has already evaporated considerably.

Two, the IAF is nearly convinced that the FGFA will turn out to be another Su-30MKI-type arrangement between the two countries, in which India contributes a few avionics and computers to a fully Russian-built platform. The IAF already believes the T-50/PAK FA program is too far down the development road for India to contribute in any great measure anymore.

"It’s simple," said one of the three officers Aviation Week spoke to. "India’s role in the airplane and customization will be directly proportional to possible delays. If flight testing is to be in full swing this decade on at least three prototype vehicles, there’s going to be big cost to what India has to give up doing on the aircraft." He indicated that within the IAF, many were already referring to it as the "Su-50MKI."

Third, the IAF has raised serious concerns with the Indian defense ministry on the technical characteristics of the proposed FGFA, which India officially calls Prospective Multirole Fighter (PMF). A senior acquisitions manager at the ministry says the IAF is worried about stealth performance, timelines over the promised "new" engine that would power the FGFA, and cost-of-ownership issues.

Despite the IAF’s lingering concerns, there’s no backing out, and the service knows it.

m.aviationweek.com...


India is apparently unhappy with its share of work in the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project with Russia and will take up the issue at the highest levels, PTI said on Thursday. Defence Minister A K Antony will flag the issue when he visits Moscow next month, the news agency said.
India’s work share in the research and development and other aspects of the project at the moment is only around 15 percent, even though New Delhi is investing 50 percent of the cost, the news agency cited officials from the Indian Air Force (IAF) as saying.
This will have an impact on India's indigenous capabilities to develop such an advanced fighter aircraft, the officials told the news agency. The IAF objections were raised at a CII event on energising aerospace sector in India, according to the report

m.in.rbth.com...

Sure sounds like they're in love with it.



posted on May, 29 2015 @ 02:02 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Are you reading what I wrote earlier ?

I will not admit some thing which is not wrong just to pander to the anti Russian bias. If india wasn't happy with the project. Why do you think india is investing 25 billion dollars on this ?

There are problems with the project just like f22 and f35. But so far the project is going as per requirements of the Airforce.

Besides I said india is in live with twin seater version of Russian jets. Which is a fact as india already has 200 plus su 30mki. which will be produced till 272 and it is entirely likely that su 30mki may replace the dead Rafael deal. One thing to hate russia. It's something else to loose your common sense over it.

thediplomat.com...

Read the entire article completly and not just the topics which you prefer. As I earlier said india prefers the two seater version. Second they also claim majority of the problems have been delt with.

sputniknews.com...

airheadsfly.com...

theaviationist.com...


Priliminary agreement has all ready been signed

thesentinel.ca...


The problems you talked about in happened in early 2014 When russia did not share the details. Since then most of the problems have been solved and from the above link the engine will also be replaced. Indian version of t-50 is the fgfa which in itself is a twin seater jet. Any link claiming otherwise needs to have their writers fired.





edit on 29-5-2015 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)




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