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EU nationals without UK passports should not have the vote in a UK referendum on EU membership

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posted on May, 25 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
The UK can put that 8 Billion to far better use on our own people without the need for an EU 3rd party involved.


8 billion would pave a lot of roads and feed a lot of people. I understand the logic to create a super union to compete against the super powers, but I would have been more selective in membership.




posted on May, 25 2015 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: grainofsand
The UK can put that 8 Billion to far better use on our own people without the need for an EU 3rd party involved.


8 billion would pave a lot of roads and feed a lot of people. I understand the logic to create a super union to compete against the super powers, but I would have been more selective in membership.
Could just give it to the 300,000 people aged over 65 in residential care in the UK, works out £26,000 each per year, or even share it amongst the 1.6 million of pensioners living 'below the poverty line' as claimed by a national charity. That would be £5000 each.
I could think of a million different ways to spend that 8 Billion without funding a European super state.


edit on 25.5.2015 by grainofsand because: Typo



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
I could think of a million different ways to spend that 8 Billion without funding a European super state.


The UK contributes less to the EU than it gives in foreign aid. 8 billion is a lot of money, but for an economy the size of the UKs it's actually small change.



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 02:25 PM
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I can solve this angst. Just allow only people that are going to vote to leave the EU. Problem solved.



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

Agreed, but can you really deny that it is small change we need not really have to spend?
That 8 Billion isn't my only reason for wanting out of the EU though, let's not forget the 300,000+ (net) increase in the UK population as a direct result of EU membership last year. You know, population increase that we have zero control over, regardless of whether the people moving here are any benefit to the UK or not.

We can still welcome EU nationals in a points based need system. The rest of Europe will still trade with us.
I personally see no tangible benefit to the UK by being a member of the EU, and until sometime as I see a convincing argument to draw me towards thinking otherwise I shall be voting to leave.



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid
I can solve this angst. Just allow only people that are going to vote to leave the EU. Problem solved.
Lol, nope, I want a clear democratic vote, and I will accept the majority decision when it happens.
...unlike the Scots of course who will be voting to leave the UK again for sure in the next few years.



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 02:44 PM
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For anyone remotely interested I am happy for this thread to wither on the vine now that it has been established that the million plus EU nationals living in the UK will not have a vote in the upcoming EU referendum.

Just like any other topic, too many similar threads get tiresome, think ebola/crashed aircraft etc.
I am waiting for the Queen's speech on Wednesday to see the referendum formally announced and then an appropriate "EU in or out?" thread would be attractive to me so we can all share our thoughts on what will be a massive decision for all of us.

If anyone else wants to start such a thread then please do as I imagine it will be a passionate debate, but if not then yep, by Wednesday or Thursday (ish) I'll probably be tempted to initiate the discussion myself.

I look forward to the debate



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
let's not forget the 300,000+ (net) increase in the UK population as a direct result of EU membership last year.


Sorry, but over half of the net migration to the UK was from ouside the EU. The 300,000 were not all from the EU. My preference would be to stop migration from non EU countries. From a cultural perspective I would rather a Pole than a Somalian or a Pakistani. After all, a million UK nationals live and work elsewhere in Europe.

www.migrationwatchuk.org...



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 02:55 PM
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Double post


edit on 25/5/2015 by paraphi because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

Yep, fair one, but over 100,000 of those non EU nationals were students making a net contribution to the economy by paying to study here, not working unskilled jobs and/or claiming in-work benefits.
Shall we let this thread die though and instead throw ourselves into a full on debate about it in a dedicated "EU referendum in or out?" thread after Wednesdays Queen's speech?

Again though, it is good you corrected me publicly, but remember non-EU immigration is under the control of the UK government, while EU immigration is not.



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 03:19 PM
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I agree with the OP that non british passport holding/eligble people shouldnt have a say 100%

However, i dont think its as black and white as in/out, I'm as yet undecided how I will vote when the referedum happens, I look forward to wading through all the sensationalism both the in and out campaigns spurt and focus on the actual facts, theres pros and cons of both an in and out vote

Lets see whats announced on Wednesday
edit on 5/25/2015 by ukmicky1980 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: ukmicky1980

agreed...and the lies, claims, counter claims, fear mongering, doom, badly twisted stats, hidden agendas, anger, emotion, and general passionate debate.
I can't wait, bet the mods can though!

See you there



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 03:36 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: TheShippingForecast


Hold a UK passport then yep, I'll agree, but live here while remaining citizens of another country then no right to vote on UK wide issues in my opinion.


People with no UK passport can vote in deciding whether we stay in political integration with Europe? That's mental, is that what the government are proposing? No passport = no vote in my opinion



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter

No, it's been confirmed that the million plus EU nationals living in the UK will not get the vote.
Sort of a thread killer line in relation to my OP, but I am very pleased though.



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 06:23 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
...more than a million people who are not from the UK having the vote ,but enjoying the benefits of the UK being in the EU is something I find difficult to support or justify as reasonable.
All thoughts welcome.


In principle I agree but it's not always that straightforward.

I am a UK citizen and my wife is from an EU country. In fact, when we were married, her home country wasn't in the EU so we had to go through the whole process of obtaining indefinite leave to remain (making the UK's exit from the EU irrelevant in terms of her staying here). Other than the name on the passport and an annual visit to a relative, she has no connection to that country at all. Her reason for retaining her old passport is pragmatic and relates to property in other (non-EU) countries.

In contrast, we own property, work, pay taxes, and raise our children, all in the UK. The impact on the UK leaving the EU will impact her as well or as badly as any UK citizen. It will also impact on our children (as UK citizens) - should she, as a parent, be denied a voice in relation to their future?

As I said, in principle I agree with you. The difficulty is that the situation is not, and should not be considered, as clear-cut as you say. There are people who have as much "skin in the game" as anybody with a passport.

Also, in relation to Scottish Independence - I believe that only the Scottish should be allowed to vote in their referendum, but that there should have been a parallel English referendum to see if we wanted to continue with the arrangement as well. It should take two to tango, after all.



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: EvillerBob
Also, in relation to Scottish Independence - I believe that only the Scottish should be allowed to vote in their referendum
Not trying to be a prick but that sort of contradicts all the rest of your post don't ya think?
I'm with you though, and I get your situation, but lets let this thread die now we know that EU nationals will not have the vote.
I look forward to bumping into each other in the "EU referendum, UK in or out?" thread now.
One of us will start it this week after the Queen's speech for sure, although I'm kinda thinking right now I'd rather it be someone else because tending threads does involve a bit of effort sometimes lol

I look forward to the debate and your contributions from your EU wife perspective




posted on May, 25 2015 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
Not trying to be a prick but that sort of contradicts all the rest of your post don't ya think?


You're not being a prick at all, you're perfectly correct.

I'm not always consistent, and sometimes you'll hit on a subject where my response is more emotive than logical. I'm only human, after all.

Now, whether it's my response to the EU question or the Scottish question that is being more skewed by logic or emotion... that's something that I'll keep to myself




...your contributions from your EU wife perspective


I can tell you that now. She thinks the UK should get out of the EU - or at least severely curtail immigration. When some of the recent new additions joined the EU, her first comment was "Oh my god, you have no idea what's coming".

Contradictory? Again, yes, to an extent, but when we went through the process it was a strictly regulated and exhausting examination of our ability to survive without being a burden on society, not the current rubber stamp because they come from a country on the right list.



posted on May, 25 2015 @ 07:00 PM
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originally posted by: EvillerBob
She thinks the UK should get out of the EU - or at least severely curtail immigration. When some of the recent new additions joined the EU, her first comment was "Oh my god, you have no idea what's coming"
Respect, and totally understand.
My many years living in the UK, Slovak and Polish, British passport holding mates say the same.
It isn't black or white, it's grey all over.
I look forward to the debate here.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 01:34 PM
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This may have been covered.

In the UK you don't need a passport to demonstrate citizenship.

Therefore the OP is wrong. For clarity, this would be "you cannot vote unless you are a British citizen", conceding that there are exceptions by tradition e.g. with Commonwealth and Irish nationals. Granted, most Britons have a passport, but some don't and it would be wrong to exclude them.



posted on May, 26 2015 @ 01:52 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi
This may have been covered.

In the UK you don't need a passport to demonstrate citizenship.

Therefore the OP is wrong. For clarity, this would be "you cannot vote unless you are a British citizen", conceding that there are exceptions by tradition e.g. with Commonwealth and Irish nationals. Granted, most Britons have a passport, but some don't and it would be wrong to exclude them.
I'll accept that technical detail and it is good that you pointed it out to avoid any confusion by readers of this thread. I did not explain my position as clearly as I could have.
My focus on the British passport was to identify EU nationals who have not become citizens and entered the UK with their home nation's passport which they continue to hold.
I have a Polish friend who holds a British passport after gaining citizenship. He has the right to vote in the referendum.

Of course there is no requirement to hold a passport to vote, just citizenship. It would have been better had I just stated citizenship, but hey, the point remains that EU nationals will not get the vote now, and I am pleased about that.



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