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EU nationals without UK passports should not have the vote in a UK referendum on EU membership

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posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978

"Taxes". You don't mean any old taxes, do you. Children pay tax, for example, if they buy a dvd or a football through VAT sales tax. You don't mean Income Tax either, because many millions of Britons don't pay Income Tax for whatever reason, they might be retired or a housewife. Similarly many millions don't pay National Insurance or Council Tax, they might be unemployed or looking after a disabled person.

Consider the cross referencing required for a tax based electoral registration scheme, between HMRC and the electoral authorities, trying to figure who would be entitled to vote.

I think your tax plan might need revising.
edit on 24-5-2015 by TheShippingForecast because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: babybunnies
I think you're right. Only UK citizens with full voting priviledges should be allowed to vote in the Referendum on the EU
I agree, but I will happily include any EU national who has gained a UK passport. I have a couple of Polish and Slovak friends who hold British passports and I support their right to vote.
The million+ EU nationals living here who hold foreign passports should not get the vote in my opinion.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: TheShippingForecast

Agreed, tax paying based voting rights are ridiculous.
When it comes down to a referendum on independence from the EU then it should be down to passports.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:23 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

What about Irish & British Commonwealth citizens living and registered to vote in the UK ? An Australian, a New Zealander and a dude from Dublin have more in common with our culture than your Polish and Slovakian mates, with respect.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I disagree.
So EU nationals who pay taxes in the UK and have not sought UK citizenship have the right to vote on issues such as independence from the EU in your opinion? All one million plus of them? Really?
...are you British?


Yes, I am British and I believe if you pay taxes in this country, you should have a say.

Are you happy that Tax Avoiders such as Phillip Green can influence a nation without paying any taxes on his multi-billion British (but not for tax purposes) business?

Really, writing on ATS isn't going to get you anywhere, you need to write to your M.P or at the very least, your local paper.

These things deserve to be included in the debate. We could argue all night, but it would be good to get some idea of how the U.K will vote.



edit on 24/5/15 by Cobaltic1978 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: TheShippingForecast

Nah, as much as I understand where you are coming from, if one does not hold a UK passport then I cannot see any justification for them to have any vote in questions about independence of the UK from the EU.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978

ATS is not my only avenue of protest regarding this referendum.
When the publicly funded yes/no camps are decided then I will be knocking on doors and exchanging my views.
I am not an online lame whinger.

...oh, and bitching about corporate tax evaders is off-topic. Start your own thread if that is important to you. This thread is about non UK nationals having a vote about solely UK national issues,



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

But the Tax Avoiders are pertinent to this thread, they are non nationals for tax purposes, yet have so much influence.

If you can't see this, you will be shot out of the water on any doorstep. Unless you ask them to start their own doorstep philosophy.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978

So you support non UK nationals having the vote on the UK's membership of the EU?
Really?
How do you justify that?
Over a million folk who benefit from the UK being part of the EU obviously voting 'Yes' and you support that?
...I don't actually believe you are British now.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:42 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

So you support non UK nationals having the vote on the UK's membership of the EU?
Really?
How do you justify that?
Over a million folk who benefit from the UK being part of the EU obviously voting 'Yes' and you support that?
...I don't actually believe you are British now.


I don't care what you think.

A million folk will not make any difference, a Billion Pounds will, but a million people won't.




edit on 24/5/15 by Cobaltic1978 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Who are you to assert that?
A million+ people is quite a lot. Do you not believe that the million plus EU citizens who have not applied for UK passports will vote for membership of the EU?
I think you are naive and speak from emotionally inspired silliness alone.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Mm. But that dude from Dublin. His Grandad was in the RAF and his Mum & Dad work in a hospital in Belfast. He's seeing an English girl and he spends most of his time in London, in fact they've got a child with another on the way.

Your Polish and Slovakian mates. They know this Pakistani girl, brought here for an arranged marriage against her will. She got a British passport by virtue of landing at Heathrow and being married to some Muslim guy from Bradford, nothing else, she doesn't even speak English.

Mm. Seems unfair to deny one yet allow the other ?

So I think the place of birth should come into this too, not just your nationality, do you not agree ?



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:48 PM
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originally posted by: TheShippingForecast
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

"Taxes". You don't mean any old taxes, do you. Children pay tax, for example, if they buy a dvd or a football through VAT sales tax. You don't mean Income Tax either, because many millions of Britons don't pay Income Tax for whatever reason, they might be retired or a housewife. Similarly many millions don't pay National Insurance or Council Tax, they might be unemployed or looking after a disabled person.

Consider the cross referencing required for a tax based electoral registration scheme, between HMRC and the electoral authorities, trying to figure who would be entitled to vote.

I think your tax plan might need revising.


What I actually mean is:-

If you are a British citizen you have an automatic right to vote. It's your birthright.

If you are a non national and pay Income tax and national Insurance, you have a right to vote.

You jump on ideas without giving an alternative. You pick apart the words that are said, without actually contributing yourself. Are you a Tory?



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: TheShippingForecast

Nope, I think you are looking to be difficult and I do enjoy the challenge so go for it.
If someone does not hold a UK passport then I see no way to argue that they should have any vote regarding the future of the country they hold no passport to enter.
Independence referendums included

edit on 24.5.2015 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:53 PM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Who are you to assert that?
A million+ people is quite a lot. Do you not believe that the million plus EU citizens who have not applied for UK passports will vote for membership of the EU?
I think you are naive and speak from emotionally inspired silliness alone.


I'm sorry, but where did you come to that conclusion?

How many people live in the U.K? How many people have a right to vote?

If you feel a million votes will swing things, then whatever you are hoping for is very much in the balance. So much in the balance that people do not care for your UKIP scare tactics enough, to tip the balance.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Are you a Tory?
No. I just don't think that any foreign national should have a vote in any referendum on the UK being independent or not from the EU.
I am actually shocked that you do. Perhaps you do not consider your nation as something important.
Such a pity. The word traitor comes to mind.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I think you have a little distance to travel before you reach the right position (mine).

Cobalt - I don't mean to upset you. I just don't think a taxed based electoral registration scheme is in any way workable. It also discriminates directly against women and disabled people, two groups which still tend to earn less than able bodied men, meaning they either pay less tax or none at all. It'd be thrown out by the courts under equality/human rights legislation, unless of course you're going to abolish that legislation too.

My position remains. British citizens born and resident within it's territorial limits (with the normal exceptions) should form the electorate of an in/out EU referendum. That's my alternative. No, I'm not a Tory, although you'll find it's Labour which haven't got the answers to anything, not the Tories.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I would definitely go one further, our country is a mixed nation and we are the island who gave the world the saying "a girl in every port", there are those from outside the EU such as jamaicans who do have an ethical right to be here as they are actually mostly partially native british by ancestry were historically it was the practive for attractive african girls to be raped by the white servants and there owners in order to create house slaves with lighter skin.

Then there are our children in America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand who should have the right to come back and forth with no time limit but with appropriate check's and it has alway's seemed lunacy to me that we open up our border to Europe who are and have always been them not us.

The French will resist our referendum at any rate, not for economic reason's as we can always hammer out state by state deal's but because they currently offload so many illegal immigrant into our country who they do not want in theres and that will then become an impossible situation for them as there camps will grow without the steam valve they see us as, I mean god help the majority of those people as they are no less worthy members of the human race than you or I but a country should have democratic right's over it's border's and that is really what the referendum is about, though there are extreme right wing element's who will try to turn it to there own use.

The biggest social problem we have today is not from the EU but from Asian immigrant's of the Islamic persuasion (not all of them) who have become militant and who vocally march up and down in the like's of Luton that is no longer recognizable to anyone that lived there 30 years ago calling for a jihad against our soldiers and spouting filth against our country and people, yet who is asking for a referendum on them, it is not the EU that is the problem therefore (though many of them who saw there own ethnic group growing are unhappy about more white europeans coming to britain and putting them back to square one as they can then not take over the country in a couple of generations) but the old and now outdated invitation which Mountbatten made to them during the partition of INDIA when he as the last viceroy suggested they come and live with us which of course they then did in drove's and with his high ranking status in the Elite masonic heirarchy of the country his word was law so what happened then is what we see today.

He was bloody hardfaced too in my opinion at they are a bunch of foreigners themselves from the House of Hannover who really have no rightful historic claim to our throne but that is another matter.

But as for the EU I agree we should have a vote that is as purely British as possible with only those who were born here valid to vote.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 07:18 PM
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originally posted by: TheShippingForecast
My position remains. British citizens born and resident within it's territorial limits (with the normal exceptions) should form the electorate of an in/out EU referendum.
That's kinda the exact thing my OP is about, nice one.



posted on May, 24 2015 @ 07:20 PM
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Decision has been made.

www.telegraph.co.uk...


EU referendum: Foreigners barred from historic vote
Only British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens who are resident in the UK will be allowed to vote in the referendum on Britain's membership of the European Union

More than 1million foreigners living in Britain will be banned from voting in the EU referendum, the Conservatives have announced, in a significant boost to Eurosceptic campaigners.

David Cameron believes that the British people must decide the future of the nation's membership of the European Union in the first referendum for more than 40 years.



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