My generation didn't do the green thing.

Beautiful, and appreciated, thanks for sharing this.

The issue is not which generation is better or worse in terms of being green or lifestyle.

It's about those who controlled in your folks days, and my generations days, and the future generations.

I didn't ask for all this electricity crap. All this plastic to be made.. it's profit and control by those in control.

Same people have always been in control; that's why things are messed up, and the latter generations are being bred in ignorance and know it all mentality.

It actually sad to see how disconnected the youth and elders are in society, there is so much division and tension between us all..

I find it more engaging too converse with middle aged - more elder people's, then thise my age or younger.
It's like talking to some premade personality that has no experience but knows everything. Also, feels like they already know what they are going to say before you finish speaking.

It's annoying. If the elder generations bred today's generations, it's freaking scary to perceive the next generations. .

Greed breeds ignorance and more greed.

a reply to: Elementalist

Here's part of the problem:

A lot of the Greatest Generation survived the Great Depression and WWII. Most people have no idea what that did to them psychologically - the compromises they had to make in order to survive. I remember some talking to my grandmother about it; it was a bit easier for her coming from a farming family where they always made do.

But after coming through those times, they wanted to make sure their children never had to worry about that. And their children's children passed that mindset one - peace and plenty. It was perhaps inevitable that after a while of the peace and plenty mindset, people began to take it for granted and the children grew up spoiled.

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: Greathouse

The older generation gets the blame because it was easier. Yes, there were mistakes but that doesn't mean that mistakes aren't still being made now. I should point out that when we were younger the rain forests weren't as thin as they are now. People want to gripe about CO2 but the solution to that is planting trees. A lot of trees.

Of course , that would mean one more thing us unfeeling older people did to help the ecosystem. Ever heard of the law imposed when a company cuts a tree down they must replace it by planting more in its place ? Hmm where did that start ?

a reply to: Greathouse I think the woman in the article is older than my mother.

I have a very different memory of my childhood. We got our milk from a machine on the corner, it came in cartons. My mother never recycled and I don't think she started until a couple of years ago.

We had disposable pens and razors and my mother used pampers. I don't recall her ever hanging any laundry to dry.

I do remember using paper bags for book covers and newsapers for packing and such. There was a lot more biking. I remember a lot of hand pushed lawn mowers. We had just the 1 tv.

I am thinking that there was a decade or 2 where refillable milk bottles ceased to exist and there wasn't a deposit on plastic and cans...where it wasn't very green.

a reply to: ketsuko

I believe George W bush said it best when he said "fool me once, shame on...shame on you. You fool me you can't get fooled again"

Another delightful insight from an elder. Back in the day there were war bonds that helped people like my grandfather buy a home. Fast forward sixty years and people his age are running the economy while returning servicemen are sleeping on streets. That is not right.

a reply to: Gothmog

I actually was't putting down the older generation, as I'm from it. As for the law requiring that a tree be planted to replace one taken, I think it's a good law.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: Greathouse

This again? My grandmother sends me these 'back in my day' email on a regular basis.

How about us young whippersnappers that still use old jars and bottles to preserve food? How about us young punks who take a quick shower to conserve water? How about us juveniles who turn down the brightness on our TVs or install lower wattage lightbulbs to conserve power?

Should I personally be labeled a ne'er do well because I happen to be young? I don't blame every old person for the A bomb, thalidomide, The Tuskegee experiments, Conscription, Cigarettes...Respect is earned through deeds, not the amount of candles on your birthday cake. I respect those older than me who have earned it and I will give respect to the next generation who have earned it.

This again? My grandmother sends me these 'back in my day' email on a regular basis.

She must feel really really sorry for you. Because from your reply you seem to take it personally and not how the information is meant. Don't worry it has to do with maturity you will figure it out sooner or later.

But I can't take away your efforts from you if you truly do all that you said?

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
Already posted.

In 2011.

www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=

This place is getting to be like a bad rerun.

Yeah yeah.

Every generations's better. Every generation's worse.

How about let's just deal with now and quit being divided and fractured on every freaking line and topic imaginable?

Already posted? Luc, that was FOUR years ago! Yeah, I know, time flies and all that happy junk. : )

a reply to: reldra

How are you doing? Believe it or not I am often relieved when you show up in a thread. You always seem to be an oasis of sound mind and logical thought.

Well I'm 52 and I remember it all.

Milk was available in a wax paper carton and reusable bottles but you could still get a milkman to come your house. They would bring your choice of milk, cottage cheese, eggs cream and then the winter yes ice cream among other items.


I think disposable pens have always been around. Lol

But disposable Razors started in 1974 with the Bic and in 1976 the good news razors came out. I occasionally use the disposable but I didn't give up my cartridge razor till the middle 80s. ( dad kept telling me they were knew and not worth a crap)

Clotheslines Yep I remembered them vividly. Milk deliveries originally started because not everyone had a refrigerator and keeping dairy products cool was a challenge. But there were places up until the 90s in our area that still delivered milk. Many small-town people kept their services because they did not want to see friends lose job Plus tradition.

I guess it's a kind of a where you live thing.

a reply to: Greathouse

Maturity and condescension goes hand in hand it seems.

"You can be whatever you want sweetie, as long as you become what we want you to be and pump out grandchildren then that's ok"

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I guess no one told you I can be a jerk sometimes sorry.

a reply to: Greathouse

No offense taken. I come from a complicated background and it drives me nuts, hence the nutty knee jerk reaction.

a reply to: Infinitis

It's a matter of perspective for sure but my perspective is
the green thing is BS. the green thing might do some good in some ways I'm sure.
the green thing makes people feel good and people feel it as a positive direction.
THere are a lot of things that people are ignorant to that make the green thing not so green
research it if you care. the last one I remember reading about was the parts china makes for the wind turbines.
that's pretty disgusting when you have green on your mind.

The green thing in my opinion is all about getting the population to think in a direction that allows big corporations and other big powers to make more money and have more power.

a reply to: kreator666

the green thing is about making the entire world change from wasting products to recycling products. The goal is 0 waste. Now obviously this isn't going to happen overnight. Also, a very obvious problem, the massive corporations are going to use "green marketing" to their advantage when the products are obviously not "green".

This is why it is the peoples problem to educate themselves about what products are truly green and what we can do to use less waste and more renewable, recyclable products.

The "green" movement will save the world when people learn to not buy into the propaganda of big corporations.

When i think of "going green" i think no trash cans, all recycling. Nothing powered by oil, all renewable recourses, even the hardware, (solar panels, wind turbines, anything man made) made from 100% recycled material, that is 100% recyclable in itself.

Nothing gets thrown in the trash, and everything is recyclable down to the q-tips and toilet paper. This is the ultimate goal of the "green thing" .

Corporations are obviously going to hijack the word "green" and use it as marketing but it is up to the people to see through that and make smart decisions.

I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with doing away with garbage, waste, and pollution.

Honestly? This whole "green thing" is BS? we want our garbage, waste, pollution and disease!!?? Lets not forget war to go a long with that, get real...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

You can also learn how to fix or repair.

There are a lot of things in a washer or dryer that you can repair or replace yourself with a little elbow grease and research. You can keep some things going for a long time that way when other people would have thrown them out for a new one a long time before.

Cars are similar. You may not have the easy time repairing them yourself, but if you pay attention to their maintenance needs, you can keep a car most people would have sold off long ago driving in good repair for a long time.

Agreed.

I have the same washer and dryer that came with my house when I bought it in 2002. They were already 10 years old then. I have fixed and repaired them as needed, and they work fine.

Best form of recycling IMO.

Maybe a newer pair would be slightly more energy efficient, or use less water, but does that offset the environmental cost of manufacturing them? I don't think it would. What if I went with a new pair every 5-7 years like they recommend? I'd have bought twice by now.

My Dad taught me how to be a Mr Fixit. I love the feeling of fixing something and getting more life out of it.

You know the old saying...Blame the Parents.

It is myopic and singularly blind to history for the current generation (what *IS* the current generation. Born in 1990? 2000's?) to blame those who came before for all the problems of the world today on previous generations. Especially when you consider what the generations immediately previous to you did to improve the world AND the environment.

When I was a wee lad, it was a totally accepted and civic-supported practice to BURN your garbage in a barrel. Just like the row of Blue and Black (and Green) bins line up in front of YOUR family home is considered the norm, we all had a giant barrel full of burning garbage. An entire city doing their civic duty keeping trash out of the landfill!

A generation before yours put a stop to that. My generation. I am old enough to be a, uh...very old uncle, even grandparent to *THIS* generation.

WE raised the alarm about Clear-cut practices. MY generation started the Green Movement (sorry for Greenpeace, we had no idea what they would turn into). WE started the marches, WE spent our summers replanting forests, WE got our parents to stop littering as a matter-of-course.

Not to mention all the technical innovations that THIS generation take for granted that were developed by people born in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

To criticize the world today from within the cocoon that the previous generation's sacrifice provided exposes the naive and ungrateful.

We have a long way to go, but today's generation needs to stop pretending they invented caring about the earth. It is a process. And the hardest part is ahead of us. We - the developed world - need to find a way to control economic expansion in the developing economies from destroying the world while not appearing to be holding them back.

As MY grandfather once said, "A critic is a volunteer as far as I am concerned...or they can shut up".

So how are we going to raise up the human and civic rights of the NEXT generation of Africa and Asia while protecting their rights to all the things you take for granted?

Be careful what you wish for...

I don't care for the rant shared in the OP. Most of it is the result of having no other choice. It's not like having no electricity or the technology that came with it was a conscious decision. I do agree that things were built to last in the past, but it was also the older generations who developed planned obsolescence. It was the older generation who raised entitled children. This is the society you designed.

originally posted by: mahatche
I don't care for the rant shared in the OP. Most of it is the result of having no other choice. It's not like having no electricity or the technology that came with it was a conscious decision. I do agree that things were built to last in the past, but it was also the older generations who developed planned obsolescence. It was the older generation who raised entitled children. This is the society you designed.

So, where is the responsbility for self-correction in the upcoming/newest generations? Where is the desire for change and the gumption to get up and make those changes for not only the young, but for all?

All generations who have contributed to a system of culture that fails to balance ALL of its production with its consumption are equally at fault. The challenge for the current generation, and many to follow, is to do this very thing without sacrificing the ability we have currently to create and invent complex ideas, technologies and toys. It must be admitted that we cannot be fully human if we forsake these things in an attempt return to a system of living that is, on every level and stage, essentially trashless. But, I argue that we are equally suppressing our birthright when our inputs and outputs do not equal out. This is indeed our birthright because we have been born into a complex system of life and energy that perpetually seeks balance in all categories. (interesting to me is that nature seeks this balance in all its ways but also attempts to do this while simultaneously evolving its own expression within the system - in other words "balance in the midst of eternal change"). The sight/wisdom required to really, with brutal honesty, evaluate every spec of energy and material that flows through your daily life and ensure its sustainability is a process better suited for a supercomputer or God (in whatever form I can imagine in my ignorance he/she/it/us/all takes).

So then, what do we do in the face of this apparent dichotomous quandary that pits our inventiveness and play against our need to achieve sustainability? I suppose we just do what we've always done, we strive for perfection knowing we may never achieve it. We most certainly shouldn't lose focus and attempt to place blame. There is also the arduous process of rectifying the rape of the idea of sustainability into something more holistic, science-based and less fad-y. A species that doesn't occupy its niche and can't balance all its needs and products will eventually perish. That puts this whole issue above just about any other I can think of and there is evidence that tending to this problem will fix many of the other problems that frequently distract us from focusing on it in the first place. Until a system of balance that respects both our basic needs and our need to invent is established, acts of less (in terms of consumption) and acts of more (in terms of local production) are important. The individuals from all generations who are participating in developing systems (Permaculture) and technologies (solar, wind, biogas and the like) are people that make recyclers look like Exxon Mobil and it's upon these actions that I believe our focus should be.