Ex-army chief urges PM to consider 'boots on the ground' to fight Isis

originally posted by: biggilo
Basic rate tax payers scarcely cover themselves in the UK.

Well personally I reckon I've covered everything I have ever received from the state in my taxes over the years, just done some quick sums, I've paid about £95,000 in income tax, not including Council Tax, claimed a total of about four grand in Housing Benefit and JSA during periods of unemployment, and I've been stitched back together by the NHS four times.
Just Googled who 'white dee' is and I understand what you say to an extent, but you have to ask yourself how many of our young soldiers are the sons and daughters of similar folk.
The British army got in trouble in Wales a few years ago because they were only recruiting at schools from areas of relative poverty and joblessness.
news.bbc.co.uk...

The army is targeting schools in some of the poorest areas of Wales to find new recruits, Plaid Cymru has claimed.
It said figures show regional variations in recruitment officers' visits and has asked the Welsh Assembly Government to ban them from schools.

Do their parents have no say because they are living off benefits?

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell

a reply to: grainofsand

I didn't know about the Wales thing but must admit I don't have a problem with it. I would rather force them into the army than pay them benefits. Tbh I don't have issues with basic rate tax payers, but our country is screwed because we are too soft, feel sorry and make excuse after excuse for the layabouts who don't try or blame their ills on society, culture or whatever. The 14yo girl who got locked up this week is a good example, using Jamaican street slang for goodness sake! When she hits 16 put her in the army and drop her over ISIS territory. But what's gonna happen is you and I and our kids are going to have to pay to fund her lifestyle. Bet her parents are long term unemployed layabouts.

a reply to: biggilo

I'd maybe meet you half way by having newly created separate regiments of national service unemployed who refuse other forms of community service for their benefits, but to be honest the thought troubles me.
Regular service folk will not consider them of equal status, and then there is the question of which regiments do we send out to conflict. Do we send the unproductive national service guys as fodder because they would otherwise be milking benefits, or do we send those who have joined as volunteers.
It's a difficult one, but on-topic, I don't think any British troops should risk death in the ME any more, let the countries involved and on the sidelines sort their own problems out now.
It is a solely Wahabi/Sunni/Shia Muslim issue, not a UK concern.

a reply to: grainofsand

I agree with you in all you just said except I fully believe we should intervene. Besides the fact we actually caused this problem this time there genuinely is a national security threat. Otherwise I would say let them all tear away at it.

ISIS is finally the real thing. The boy that cried wolf has finally spoken

The communist weren’t ever as bad as the said, and of course the original reason for the Iraq disaster was a big lie in the Hitler mode: Bush and Cheney.

But ISIS is the real deal a group of zombie mass murderers who are suicidal, homicidal, and genocidal


And the reality that the world stands by and watches these people do what they do and do nothing is a commentary on the moral condition of the human race.

If the West does do boots on the ground it should be a world-wide effort with a lot of boots from a lot of countries (not another cowboys and Indians war like Afghanistan) so it could be a swift routing of ISIS, not another long drawn out blood bath.

But the leaders of this world are so devoid of fundamental decency and morality that I'm afraid nothing will get done until many more human beings will needlessly suffer.


ISIS is another black mark on mankind like the genocides of the recent pass that the world stood by and did nothing.

The problem is the Middle East is divided along sectarian and old tribal lines. People there have more allegiance to their Tribe or religious sect than to their nation. We are the ones who put the lines into the sands creating these nations, which are not nations in the sense we understand them in the west. Tribal and sectarian allegiances are stronger than nations. This is why we can't support certain countries and oppose others, because national boundaries arnt important there. I think this makes it more difficult for us in the west to appreciate the difficulties in intervention in the region

Dannatt must be worried about his investments in the Military/Industrial Complex.We are gonna see more former Chiefs of Staff from both sides of the pond beating the war drums.

a reply to: Willtell

You are right, this is the real deal this time, we have to do something. Too many muppets with voices though, read posts in this thread alone harping on about Industrial complexes etc as if they even understand what they are actually talking about. If we let this go we WILL regret it.

originally posted by: biggilo
a reply to: grainofsand


When I see some goat with a Scottish Saltaire speaking up I am afraid I can't bite my tongue,

There ye go, Changed it, Just for little ol you...Happy Now?

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Who is the new face solo?
Thought I'd ask as this is probably the first thread we've ever agreed with each other about something lol
...I may get my Union flag face back now

Let someone else like some gog-magog RuChinese do something right? They think the world will be better without a strong America.
Isn't it the message sent by the democrat? You wanna screw the dollar and faq with uncle Sam so let's see how it will work. Pretending weakness was always a good strategy. It's an evil game and they all have their evil plans like bankers playing poker. Everyone suddenly loves peace and hate war as long as muslims and christians keep dying;
while UN is in a coma and no one wants it to wake up.
I won't play someone else's games in my well polished boots. Will you? Once you are there doing a good job you'll be used to something you haven't ordered. Let's beat them all with a tongue instead.

originally posted by: PapagiorgioCZ
Let's beat them all with a tongue instead.

Do whatever you like, but I will campaign and protest against any British troops going back to the ME.
It is a Wahabi/Sunni/Shia Muslim dispute, so let those nations sort it out themselves.
They will still sell us their oil, whoever finally comes out in overall control.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Who is the new face solo?
)

Why, That's one of the local inhabitants up here..and at least one in this thread.....dont worry, he'll expose himself in 3...2..1...

a reply to: Soloprotocol

WTF? I always assumed you would be a Celtic man?!

What really grinds my gears is the people, not only in this forum, but world wide, who sit in front of there PC's and TV's and demand that we send someone else's son to War.

Here's a # Suggestion, You first...Go on. Join up, You dont need your governments permission. you can go fight ISIS right now.....

No Doubt all the fantasy warriors would be the first on a plane or a boat out of here if a call to arms were ever needed.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Again, agreed.
I will say though at least one reply here seems to be from a serving soldier who is chomping at the bit to go and fight there.
It is good that they must wait until their elected civilian masters make the decision.
...or if they feel so strongly about it then go AWOL and join up in someone else's conflict. Ain't my war, it is a solely Wahabi/Sunni/Shia Muslim dispute, let those rabid religious dogs fight it out themselves. Tragic for the innocents involved of course, so I support humanitarian aid, but Western interference has never fixed the religious wars of the Muslims, and never will.

a reply to: biggilo

So you'll obviously be signing up to go then since your very much in support of this? Or just other people's kids need to die?

On the thread topic, I think that the area players are better suited to handle this. It's their yard, clean it up. Why the hell are western countries required when there are places like Jordan, Turkey and Egypt that are in the direct line of fire? They have infantry, they have air forces, they have tonnes of both western and eastern weapons. Use the freaking things and put down these animals. I've lost enough friends already. Hell, turn Israel lose on them. They can bloody well have Syria for all I care. Start building settlements there too.

It's their land. Fight for it.

The reality is if the west goes in for ISIS, they are staying for Assad. And then that's a brand new set of problems.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Again, agreed.
I will say though at least one reply here seems to be from a serving soldier who is chomping at the bit to go and fight there.

What sort of Idiot "chomps at the bit" to go to War...My guess is someone who has never been to or experienced war.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Again, agreed.
I will say though at least one reply here seems to be from a serving soldier who is chomping at the bit to go and fight there.

What sort of Idiot "chomps at the bit" to go to War...My guess is someone who has never been to or experienced war.

...or someone who has, and enjoyed it. I know a couple in my real life circles.