Senate votes down USA Freedom Act, putting bulk surveillance powers in jeopardy

a reply to: neo96

Ha, that is when is going to be legal to target you base on your health history, see now is laws protecting your for "religion" "gender" and "race", but hell is nothing to get you off from insurance of any kind basing their soon to be a new score system on your health.

What we are moving to is a world in which there are no personal boundaries. Boundaries are dissolving due to our technology. Eventually we won't be able to hide anything about ourselves from anyone. We will know anything and everything about someone if we want to.

Heck, in the distant future we may become telepathic and not even be able to hide our thoughts from each other. This is just a progression in that direction.

Kids that are 8 today will have a vastly different picture of what "privacy" means when they are of adult age.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Kids that are 8 today will have a vastly different picture of what "privacy" means when they are of adult age.

Yep like right now that's setting the Facebook profile to 'private'.

LOL.

Nothing is private from 'big brother'.

Voting records,dmv,telephone,internet usages,financial records,healthcare records, and if a person ever committed a crime with the gun background check. Cameras on the street, smart meters, and smart appliances, etc.

They will think it's normal.

We are well past Orwell.

a reply to: Maxmars

I love how the USA gives #ty laws names like patriot and freedom, the opposite of what the laws stand for.

Come on grow a brain people.

Least in the UK we call a turd a turd even if it is thrust on us still,

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Maxmars

Really, I don't know what the big fuss is all about...I don't care if they read my emails or eavesdrop on my conversations. I do not have anything to hide. Hell, they may even learn something useful. the only people that have a real problem with this are the ones trying to hide stuff. I say eavesdrop away and maybe catch some crooks or pedophiles or whatever!

And its all great.... until you get a really #ty or really corrupt goverment come into office that then abuses those powers.

The more powers a goverment has the more power that can be abused.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Maxmars

I love how the USA gives #ty laws names like patriot and freedom, the opposite of what the laws stand for.

Come on grow a brain people.

Least in the UK we call a turd a turd even if it is thrust on us still,

I know. We need a "freedom act" from our "patriot act".

The debate is going on now, they're saying probably something after 6pm et, but after this vote which needs 60 to break the filibuster there's still another 60 good hours of debate before a final vote.

CNN reported that the NSA is already shutting things down, they don't think the vote will pass.

I would worry that "something bad" happens and then they will say, see what happens when we cant watch what everyone is doing?? We could have stopped this horrible act if only we could of scanned all email and all other forms of communications...Then people will scream, please spy all you want, just don't let bad things happen to us....

originally posted by: Wiz4769
I would worry that "something bad" happens and then they will say, see what happens when we cant watch what everyone is doing?? We could have stopped this horrible act if only we could of scanned all email and all other forms of communications...Then people will scream, please spy all you want, just don't let bad things happen to us....

And opponents can point to the fact that not only did the Patriot Act by their own admission not catch anyone, but one they should have (Boston Marathon bombing) they completely missed. The spying has been used more or less just for drug enforcement.

No one was caught, and they misused their authority.

a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

I do not have anything to hide.

Hey, thats my song! I always sing out loud when I leave the house naked to take my daily shower at the busstation, as the koolaid-rain is really getting warmer these days. "Its raining again... I do not have anyhing to hide!"

Anyway... there may be no Patriot Act anymore to harass US-citizens with, but the NSA is still spying on the rest of the world. It's a scam, don't let this Rand Corp fool you with semantics.

a reply to: Maxmars

Perfect opportunity to watch who orchestrates the next false flag- Keep your eyes peeled...they will be silent and wait a whole lot longer this time because they know we are watching.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

everyone generally plays along to get along when they get into positions of power....you absolutely right

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: JHumm

Not a bad idea...where do I sign up for such a tag? I would rather they were able to keep an eye on the people that need eye keeping...like I said, I have nothing to hide, they can look all they want... I will leave the light on and whatever I have lying around will not be anything they will care about in the interest of National security.

The fact of the matter is that their bulk spying program is extremely ineffective, they've even admitted that not one act of terr0r has been prevented. www.nbcnews.com...

So because you don't mind that g0vernment workers are being paid with our tax dollars to waste time, you justify their actions?

Sorry but that is very disappointing to hear. Today it's looking at your emails/phone conversations. 5 years from now it's "inspections" at your household, where, again I'm sure you have nothing to hide and you are all for it. Correct?

Don't you realize this program essentially makes every single U.S. citizen a potential suspect? Does privacy mean nothing to you? C'mon...

This just got passed by the way.

a reply to: superluminal11

everyone generally plays along to get along when they get into positions of power...

Not everyone, but the little number of exceptions validate your point anyway - generally spoken. Either way, the Patriot Act was even redundant before this Rand-Corp 'filibustered' enough votes against an extension, you still have your Freedom Act and lot's of spy-planes ahead.
In other words: did it make any difference at all?

originally posted by: JAK
a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

It has been understood for many years that when people feel they are being observed they alter their behaviour.

Panoptican

The Panopticon is a type of institutional building designed by the English philosopher and social theorist Jeremy Bentham in the late 18th century. The concept of the design is to allow a single watchman to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) inmates of an institution without the inmates being able to tell whether or not they are being watched. Although it is physically impossible for the single watchman to observe all cells at once, the fact that the inmates cannot know when they are being watched means that all inmates must act as though they are watched at all times, effectively controlling their own behaviour constantly.

This reaction is not limited to those partaking in criminal activities.

Are there no moments in your life where although you are not breaking any laws you enjoy privacy, privacy being the freedom to go about your business without oversight? Free expression in a love letter, honest words from either direction between you and a relation in their last moments... Aren't there are numerous examples of moments where privacy is the parent of freedom?

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. ~ Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900)

Privacy is an essential part of freedom and in the context of this issue the word privacy exists as representative of the freedom to communicate unmolested, without fear or restraint from any quarter. To communicate the exchange of ideas without restraint requires at least the belief that the exchange is truly free from any restrictions and certainly not something which the very existence of is down due to the generous disposition of even the most benevolent dictator. Even the considered position of refusing to be kowtowed by an overseer is itself a move away from free communication.

Whether real or imaginary it is fear which is bowed to in a willingness to trade freedom for security. At best this resulting freedom exists as a malformed incarnation - a change of heart from authority and the machinery is already in place for that freedom to mutate further, into something entirely illusory.

'I have nothing to hide' is perhaps the weakest defence for the position of acceptance of such an invasion of privacy through granting another the authority to impinge upon your freedom of communication. Certainly it seems that only the short-sighted or parties with a vested interest would try to smear the whole discussion by reaching to the bottom of the barrel and dragging up such an (albeit weak) insultingly dismissive statement as ' the only people that have a real problem with this are the ones trying to hide stuff'. (Chucking about bogeymen 'crooks and paedophiles' a la 'won't sumbody fink of da children!' doesn't add weight either.

You are accepting because you believe you have nothing to hide: gifting your authority here to another is a move taken because of your believe you have nothing to hide. Yet it is not even you who is in the position to decide whether you have anything to hide. That argument stands weakened even before tagged onto the sentence 'I have nothing to hide from government' is the word 'today'.

Acquiescence here may be a position you are happy to adopt but, for my money, the simplistic justification offered for such a stance fails to present even a reasonably arguable point of substance to weigh when considering an actual loss of freedom (lets use that word instead of the more easily malleable term privacy) for everyone.

Then I guess they had better remove all video cameras from public then, because what I do on my coffee break is my business. Remove all those traffic cameras that show people running stop lights, because if I want to run one that is my business. Get rid of all holidays because I don't celebrate them. Do away with all laws because it is no ones right to tell me I can not go get a drink and drive. Our freedom is constantly being monitored every day. You can not tell me other countries are not spying on us. You can not tell me we are not spying on other countries in the name of national security. Too many hypocrites want to use this freedom thing as a way to bellyache.

a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

Too many hypocrites want to use this freedom thing as a way to bellyache.

Paranoia is no excuse either. Too many hypocrites want us to use this security-thing as a way to bellyache.