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The Conservative "Meritocracy" Paradise As It Recently Existed

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posted on May, 23 2015 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: Hefficide

You might be right about what pleases the average worker. Personally, I feel far more appreciated by my employer when he gives me a raise or bonus than when he says 'good job.'

Talk is cheap. When someone tells me happy birthday, I know they care. When someone gives me a heartfelt birthday gift, I know they really care, and appreciate who I am.




posted on May, 23 2015 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: Edumakated

Utopian manner? You mean wanting laws to regulate employer abuses, provide a safe workplace, and have measures to ensure that our government is something more than a puppet for Corporate interests?

Your definition of utopia, Sir, is highly skewed.

[/quote

You cannot legislate stupidity, greed, or any manner of other moral failings away. No matter how many laws you write to try to prevent abuses there will always be someone who figures out how to flaunt said law.

The free market is very efficient. People vote with their wallets. When an issue becomes important enough, people will use competitors and the offending business will fail, lose their employees, etc.

Again, nothing is stopping any of you from picking a market and starting a company in that space and treating your employees in the manner that you see fit. If it works, you will be successful. If not, you will fail. Stop bitching and put up your own capital if it is so easy.

For example, I always see people complaining about hedge fund managers making a ton of money. If it is so easy and these people don't deserve their riches, start your own freaking hedge fund! Remember, businesses are greedy, so if you are able to produce out sized returns and charge lower than market management fees, capital will flock to your fund. But notice no one ever does this because all of you are full of shiz. Where is the great liberal progressive hedgefund producing outsized returns and only paying their managers $100k? Where is it? You are just jealous that others are more successful.

You all complain about living wages. Again, start your own business and pay your employees this mythical living wage while at the same time maintaining a profit margin to keep your business afloat. Do it!

But again, all we are going to hear are crickets... because at the end of the day, all you guys can do is just talk and complain. You won't risk your own capital and implement what you claim businesses are not doing because at the end of the day, you know deep down your proposed utopia will fail.



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: Hefficide

well said Heff.....the amount of time and information you put into this post should be a clarion call to all of our republican ATS members. I'm always amazed when the corporate and wealthy, talk about the benefits of "free markets", the dialogue about what happens to the poor and middle class is absent, or at best, a vague generic answer....a well-deserved star for you



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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What's also handy for the corporate and wealthy is that as well as owning the industry they own the media too, therefor they control the message being sent out to the society. The message is the workers should be happy to just have a job and not kick up a fuss about their working conditions. The workers believe this media and it justifies the whole chirade. It also establishes a narrative of deserving and un deserving poor which helps divide the society putting worker against worker and poor member against poor member. It also establishes the myth that the owners of business are to be lauded the workers to just be thankful for any employment

if the workers do protest their conditions they are portrayed as an angry mob led by rabble rousers who deserve a good kicking from the police
edit on 23-5-2015 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-5-2015 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


It's not about thinking the world will end. It's about trying to get people to draw a distinction about the types of people who rely on society to carry them.

At a certain point, I am forced to conclude that they simply refuse to see the point being made. It's more fun to pretend I'm evil. Then they don't have to really think about things.


This response from you is quite typical on any subject that pertains to the helping programs. When somebody is discussing the "needy" or the "deserving poor", you inevitably state that although the "deserving poor" should be assisted, you quickly launch in to the "fraudulent, lazy, idiots" whose only wish is to benefit from those who are working and paying taxes. Even though the discussion is about the truly needy, your posts quickly attempt to divert it to the "lazy" and undeserving.

Of course there are frauds and thieves in every station in life from the highest to the lowest. That is a given, and nobody argues that. We know that. Benefits to the poor and needy are not different, there will be people there to gain whatever they can, through whatever means they can. This is no big epiphany for any of us.

But do you see any threads being written about the "lazy, fraudulent slobs" who are ripping you off? I don't know, I'm asking you, or asking you to start your own thread about them, so you can blast them out of the water, (giving sources of course), and others who share your sentiments might participate with their experiences. Y'all could have a hell of time.

But for the most part in threads, such as here, the diverted topic you choose is not being discussed. It's the genuinely needy who are being discussed, so to continually rant about the "rip-outs" on a thread concerning the truly needy, is actually off-topic. Do you see that?

And do stop saying that people "don't get the point" or "don't think about things". It's condescending, and extraordinarily presumptuous and falsely so, I might add. If you believe no one here "gets the point", other than you, than why bother to post? You honestly believe you are the only one with an intelligence clear enough to understand that you believe the needy are all dishonest all the way from food stamps, to Medicaid, to SSI-D?

So please just consider this. The next time you come across a thread discussing benefits to the poor, try to notice if the conversation pertains to the needy, or if it's about criminal behavior.



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: woodwardjnr
What's also handy for the corporate and wealthy is that as well as owning the industry they own the media too, therefor they control the message being sent out to the society. The message is the workers should be happy to just have a job and not kick up a fuss about their working conditions. The workers believe this media and it justifies the whole chirade. It also establishes a narrative of deserving and un deserving poor which helps divide the society putting worker against worker and poor member against poor member. It also establishes the myth that the owners of business are to be lauded the workers to just be thankful for any employment

if the workers do protest their conditions they are portrayed as an angry mob led by rabble rousers who deserve a good kicking from the police


I have noticed that now when ever a "panel" and/or "guest" is brought on one of the many media outlets to discuss financial inequality, the lack of job or wage increases, or the general malaise of the poor/middle class population, the "panel" or "guest" are those people highly educated and/or well-off financially...when will we see regular people discussing AT LENGTH their everyday lives, and how they get by on wages that the vast majority of workers actually live on?



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 02:08 PM
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Recently Walmart posted smaller profits than expected then blamed the recent wage hikes in April on the shortfall, it was like a 2% difference from what they expected, what wasn't release or stated in the article was the closing of 5 stores in the same month, I guess closing 5 store wouldn't effect there bottom line, but I bet it would.



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I don't think you understand how much money is wasted through fraud and abuse of welfare programs. Money that will never make it to those truly in need.



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: LDragonFire

Think about it like this:

Everything I make is 100%, obviously. But, if my costs break down like this:

50% Labor
25% Cost of Goods
25% Gross Profits

Then any shift of additional funding into Labor will come at a cost of one of the other 2. Since Im not likely to twist my vendors arm into giving me a better deal, my only chance to improve my COG% is to reduce shrinkage or raise prices.

So that leaves Gross Profits. If i increase my labor, the only logical place the funding can come from is either increased efficiency, or or gross profits. It would seem reasonable that a labor cost increase would be the causative factor of less GPM.

Besides....the number of stores closed doesn't have anything to do with %. % is a relative number.



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I don't think you understand how much money is wasted through fraud and abuse of welfare programs. Money that will never make it to those truly in need.


Since you and others seem to have such a verifiable knowledge of these folks, please report them. You may use this:


How Can I Report SNAP Fraud?

If you see or hear about SNAP fraud, tell us. Help us protect your tax dollars.

FNS takes aggressive measures to fight all fraud. We appreciate the help of concerned citizens.

Fraud reports of any kind may be filed with the USDA Office of Inspector General.
◾Call ◾(800) 424-9121
◾(202) 690-1622
◾(202) 690-1202 (TDD)


And in the event you are unable to report fraud, because you are personally unaware of any person, then your point is rather moot. However, they claim all reports are investigated. Get busy then!








edit on 5/23/2015 by angeldoll because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I don't think you understand how much money is wasted through fraud and abuse of welfare programs. Money that will never make it to those truly in need.


Ah, I was going to suggest you file a complaint, but I see someone beat me to it. By all means, report these folks you are obviously aware of. I think the people who take applications do the best they can to determine eligibility, but of course some sneak through. In fact, if they hired enough people to thoroughly investigate each applicant, it would take.... guess what? More of your tax dollars! It would also create more of a stigma for the "deserving poor", but I know you can't concern yourself with that. In any case, assistance programs do the best they can in determining eligibility, and the websites available for reporting attest to that.

It doesn't however, rule out those folks who are genuinely in need, and to throw out a program because there are those who steal from it, doesn't seem to be the solution. It's important not resent those who are needy, because of those who are not.

In any event, I'm not sure Heff intended for his wonderful OP to take this route, so I will bow out of this conversation.



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: Hefficide

I mean, a couple of them are getting social security.


erm it was their money in the first place (generally speaking). whoever is selling the idea that social security is an entitlement is being incredibly dishonest.



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The question for me is why are the middle class such a target for taxes? Before 1970 the majority of taxes came from the wealthy and industry but with Nixon, Reagan, and Bushes tax cuts for the wealth has switched the burden to the working class, this is unacceptable but try to get congress to listen and act for the benefit of the people is next to impossible.

But is it a good idea to blame the poorest and welfare for taxes being high, when a percentage of those tax payers keep having there taxes reduced(wealthy) while other keep seeing taxes rise(middle class)?
edit on 23-5-2015 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The question for me is why are the middle class such a target for taxes? Before 1970 the majority of taxes came from the wealthy and industry but with Nixon, Reagan, and Bushes tax cuts for the wealth has switched the burden to the working class, this is unacceptable but try to get congress to listen and act for the benefit of the people is next to impossible.

But is it a good idea to blame the poorest and welfare for taxes being high, when a percentage of those tax payers keep having there taxes reduced(wealthy) while other keep seeing taxes rise(middle class)?


global marxism is going to require 99.9999999999999999% of the people on earth, share the same misery and squalor. so the middle class are being driven into poverty by both sides of the aisle. then the people will be encouraged to attack most of the very rich, leaving then only a few hundred people with wealth to control a planet full of the poor and suffering. BUT, look on the bright side, no one will be jealous of their neighbor's wealth. unless you count things like his tent having a better dirt floor than yours.
edit on 23-5-2015 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: Hefficide



How the dream got this twisted I get - propaganda. How so many amongst us has bought into the lie - that still confuses me to this day.


I don't believe that the U.S., or any other first world nation is prepared politically or economically to face what we are going to be hit with.



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: LDragonFire

The middle class are a target for taxes because the poor can't pay them, and the wealthy have special interests that help them avoid them.

The REAL question is why do we pay so much in taxes to begin with?



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx
a reply to: Hefficide

well said Heff.....the amount of time and information you put into this post should be a clarion call to all of our republican ATS members. I'm always amazed when the corporate and wealthy, talk about the benefits of "free markets", the dialogue about what happens to the poor and middle class is absent, or at best, a vague generic answer....a well-deserved star for you




Well the "poor" are really, these days, a multi ziillion $ conduit for dumping cash back into the system to perpetuity. Sure the folks on the many tap outlets to government support don't really see it that way in their myopathy but that is really why the welfare system was easy to sell and to grow over the years. It dumps huge sums into programs that many liberal democrats are invested in......like section 8 housing, like federal money to schools, like the large amount of money that encourages mothers and couples not to wed and the list goes on. All this cash finds its was back into the economy or the into private coffers of many that make their nut off the federal and state giveaway programs.



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The question for me is why are the middle class such a target for taxes? Before 1970 the majority of taxes came from the wealthy and industry but with Nixon, Reagan, and Bushes tax cuts for the wealth has switched the burden to the working class, this is unacceptable but try to get congress to listen and act for the benefit of the people is next to impossible.

But is it a good idea to blame the poorest and welfare for taxes being high, when a percentage of those tax payers keep having there taxes reduced(wealthy) while other keep seeing taxes rise(middle class)?


Woah, don't forget that evil JFK ... he cut those taxes too.



posted on May, 23 2015 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Considering my brother-in-law's family is comprised of some of those people - people who could do for themselves but largely don't because they are dysfunctional in the extreme - I think that you are basically out of bounds. I know the people I am talking about and you admit you do too.

We cannot have this conversation without really talking about the entire problem. If you want to have social programs, they need to be for those who actually need them and not those who really could make do for themselves but are simply enabled by your good intentions and your intent to shame the rest of us.

You can hate me and call me a hard-hearted b**** all you want, but you won't change my position. And if you really do think we should just foot the bill for anyone and everyone who wants to sit on their a** and make you and everyone else who works pay for it and you establish such a system. I'm out! I'm just going to sit at home and you d*** well pay for my soon to be worthless b*** too.




posted on May, 23 2015 @ 06:01 PM
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Its amazing. In several of these discussions no one ever drags the "Great Society" democrat efforts to end poverty into the thing. Or the "New Deal" ect. Both of which were the result of liberals getting in bed with international bankers. Federal income tax paved the way for both of these programs.

It was they that turned your employer into an income reporting agency and tax collector for the bankers, the fed ect.

So whats up now? They are at another point where they fear losing the middle class as dupes for the game. Now they are our friends? Have we been listening how they patronize the middle class these days? They never will tell you that they are the ones that have made the working man rather expensive to the payroll these days. Cant give Jack and Jill a raise because for every dollar they give you they have to pay the government a handling fee......as if the government owns the labor force......as if you are a "temp" owned by the government on loan to the xyz where you work.



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