Family Research Council Exec Resigns After Confessing to Child Molestation

originally posted by: Tusks

Boys can and frequently do things that are senseless. They simply haven't learned correct behavior. Unless actual physical or psychological harm was caused , this should have been ignored by a responsible press---something we haven;t had in ages.

I've been waiting the past few days for more victims to come forward--for me its not IF they exist, its if and when they will come forward.

I read thru pages and pages of Christian rape apologists (not here, but on the net in general) trying to speak in support of this child molester that I honestly think that every church is a paedophile ring, and every overzealot knuckledragger supporting him is also raping kids in their spare time.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Agreed. That attitude considers only the perpetrator's innocence and leans heavily toward "boys will be boys". People keep saying that he was young and kids do this kind of thing. But no one seems to consider the girls and the damage they will suffer all their lives.

If Josh's "counseling" was inadequate, which it appears it was, given it was performed by a man whose in prison for child porn and a minister who is a sexual predator, I doubt the girls' counseling was any better, if they got any at all. The Duggars wanted to keep it from authorities and in "in the church", but thankfully, it's out now. I hope these girls (women?) can get the help they need.

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

Are people just willfully ignoring all the information we've dug up since the story broke?

People willfully ignore all kinds of things. Especially when they don't want to ruin a good run of righteous indignation. I can and have done that with the best of them

It helps to have some context:
Growing Up Duggar

But they're also against hand-holding, kissing and actually dating. The Duggar daughters prefer to be courted with their parents chaperoning as they "focus on the spiritual and emotional aspects of their relationship."

None of them have replaced their purity rings with wedding bands yet because they don't feel marriage is "God's will or God's timing," right now.

So much more out there, but this will do for now. It's not about the girls - it's about the situation they grew up in. Seems repressive to some, decent and normal to others - we all have our own scale of normal. It's also normal to judge this sort of thing harshly - nobody should be allowed to violate children - children are the one thing we all agree on. And rightly so - but, then - we are all human, and Josh Duggar was 14. He knew it was wrong - and yet...

Evangelicals are not known for being at all supportive of sex education - and sex education goes beyond just teaching where babies come from. It should cover - at the very least - stuff like this

They didn't turn their own son into the authorities - and somehow this surprises people. He's their son - who they love. It was their daughters - who they also love. Can you even begin to imagine their predicament? You'd have to allow yourself some empathy and some compassion - and that would ruin the blood sport of wanting so badly to hang a 14 year old (possible) pedophile and take down a bunch of (apparently) less than human, hypocritical evangelicals at the same time

This sort of thing happens in families all the time, and since child molestation is viewed as worse than murder, it very rarely gets handled in the best possible way. It gets handled in the worst ways possible for all involved because of the shame

Sex always wins - and people who think that you can just praise Jesus and hope for the best are deluded

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

But if he was someone else and his parents and the trooper friend they reported it to (who is in prison for child porn) hadn't kept it undercover, he'd probably be in a lot more trouble than he is.

You don't believe in Satan any more than I do BH. If we can't blame the devil - then it's human behavior and we have to look for a cause. There is always a cause -

Hormones, there are apparently brain abnormalities in true pedophiles (if this isn't just a case of bad behavior and puberty). Science is useful - but there's more obvious things to look for - culture, religion - not fully understanding right from wrong. Knowing but doing wrong anyway is also human

His life is ruined, but you never know - maybe not forever. If you read up on this stuff he's likely suffering - not that anyone cares. So the girls suffer, he suffers - and all because why?

Sin

I'll tell you a story that nobody is going to be interested in because I tend to go long - but it's a true story and pertinent

I once worked with a woman and later became friends with her - in a way. It was very difficult to be her friend. One day at work she confessed to me that she wanted to die and was planning on taking her own life. In case I doubted her - she pulled a shoe box out of her desk drawer and showed me the hand gun she had bought to do the job

I became her confidant and amateur counselor that day - and tried my level best to talk her out of it. She had been through a series of counselors - psychologists, psychiatrists - the works. She had been hospitalized because of a very serious case of anorexia/bulimia and had nearly died form that several times - in addition to being hospitalized because she cut herself and had tried killing herself with pills. She also had a long series of seriously deranged and unwholesome relationships...

When she was 12 her brother raped her

He had been going through a series of hormone shots due to a testicle that hadn't dropped - and he was 15 at the time

Her parents didn't defend her brother - but they also didn't punish him. They were very religious. The whole thing was dealt with by not dealing with it at all

He went on to be a depressed individual, isolating himself in a trailer and hardly ever going out - agoraphobic. She - for some reason both hated and loved him and used to visit him there. He drank - a lot, and had tried killing himself several times as well

I don't know if there's a moral to this story - I just know that we as a society love our villains and our victims and very seldom slow down to reason out that sometimes everyone is a victim - or a villain - and that we are all human

Like what? Their show is temporarily cancelled. What other consequences is he or the family paying?

I could give a crap about their show. They're being hanged in public - consequence enough I think. I am not a fan of the Duggars - they're ignorant and malicious. But, seriously - enough is enough

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

This is the recently civilized town square executions of old. The crowd is still full of avid bloodthirsty fans and the horrified powerless.

a reply to: NoAngel2u

This is the recently civilized town square executions of old.

There's nothing more terrifying than an angry mob

I actually believe in the power of public discussion. Public shaming is also natural, and a useful tool. The internet has been, and will hopefully continue to be a miracle of communication and something that can actually improve humanity's lot

But, sometimes, even though it's all anonymous and on the internet - what I read is still a little scary

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I told you I didn't think he should be punished anymore because of what he and his family are already suffering. What do you want from me? Everyone is talking about him and the fact that he was a teenager. I'm just saying let's give some thought to the girls he molested, too.

I do believe he is a victim of insane parenting, but have his other brothers done the same?

My ONLY concern at this time is for his children and his victims. I think he should be carefully watched to prevent any damage to his daughter(s) and other girls.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
I could give a crap about their show. They're being hanged in public - consequence enough I think. I am not a fan of the Duggars - they're ignorant and malicious. But, seriously - enough is enough

Give me a break. They guy sexually abused multiple girls. Don't give me the "Playing Doctor" or "Boys being Boys" crap either because even when that is the case it's not with your own damn Sisters.

Then he goes on to represent a Hate Group Family Values Organization like FRC. He never intended to leave that job or admit to all this publicly and never would have if he was Caught first. Yes, he was exposed and like all criminals they are always sorry once they're caught. Until then they hide away their crimes thinking they'll get away with it.

Him and his family tried to cover it up as did the church leaders. He never faced any real responsibility for what he did and even now him and his sympathizers are deflecting it.

He's a liar, a sexual criminal, a hypocrite and he deserves what he gets in public shame. He should be ashamed. He abused the younger, weaker and more vulnerable members of his own family and tried to hide it but got caught. You think some hash words are too much, are you nuts???

It's unbelievable how some of you people think. It's all tears and sympathy when it's one of your own cult members but if you don't belong to the group somehow you burn em at the stake to purify their souls of sin or some other BS.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I told you I didn't think he should be punished anymore because of what he and his family are already suffering. What do you want from me?

I don't want anything from you. I was surprised you even responded to me. I've read enough of what you've posted here at ATS to know this is a a subject that is important to you for obvious reasons. I was just answering your question - best as I know how

I believe the Duggars should be taken on at every opportunity - on a level playing field

That's why I said: But - not like this

That part seemed to confuse you

The rest of that post was just me trying to clarify my reasons for saying what I said. I know, from my own personal experiences in life, that s!!! happens - and that life is messy, unpleasant - and sometimes unjust or even cruel. Not like this, because this is a family trauma with no easy fixes and no way out

Something I know you know very well BH - it wasn't intended as a lecture

a reply to: mOjOm

Well, I've said as much as I can say about this here. I didn't give you a single bit of boys will be boys BS, but if you won't read, or you won't think - there's not anything more that I can say

If you want to call me a defender of pedophiles - that's up to you

That's also on you

:-)

Denying ignorance is a fool's game - apparently

originally posted by: mOjOm

Give me a break. They guy sexually abused multiple girls. Don't give me the "Playing Doctor" or "Boys being Boys" crap either because even when that is the case it's not with your own damn Sisters.

I would guess the brother/sister sexual molestation happens far more then some want to believe.

And -- that many, probably most families keep it within the family and don't report it.

But, not all present the hypocracy of this family.

Believe me -- I would love to attack this "self righteous holier then thou" family, but I'm not going to do that.

originally posted by: Annee

Believe me -- I would love to attack this "self righteous holier then thou" family, but I'm not going to do that.

mmmhhhmmmmm.

a reply to: Annee

I'm not even suggesting attacking the family.

What gets me are all the apologists who along with political figures and fans keep down playing this and once more acting as if it's the world and it's blood lust that is tearing them to shreds. Well, I say cry me a river.

You know what would shut people up and stop the attacks??? If people would stop the double standard, stop misreporting the details, claiming how they confessed it all and immediately reported it and took action, etc. and admit that like always they used the church and it's organization to avoid any normal responsibility until it finally got exposed.

Only after being caught did he resign. I'm upset with all the people trying to whitewash this.

I don't want to demonize this guy any more, but it's impossible to make a point to the sympathizers without bring up the correct details.

At best we have a troubled family in the public eye that now has a scandal. At worst we might have multiple organizations literally institutionalizing sexual abuse and abusers posing as Family Moral Value Groups. All the while misrepresenting and lying and attacking other groups in society like the LGBT crowd as dangerous to children and sinners.

It's hypocrisy and hubris and double standards and self righteousness to the point that it sickens me with the slightest mention of it. It's no personal about this guy, what he did or his family per se. It's the entire Repressive Religious Hate filled brood that continuously claim such moral high ground and attack others while having dark secrets up to their eyeballs while doing it.

a reply to: mOjOm

It's the entire Repressive Religious Hate filled brood that continuously claim such moral high ground and attack others while having dark secrets up to their eyeballs while doing it.

Then we fight them where we meet them - and leave them to clean up their own messes and feel the hot irony (or not) where it brands them

It's an unnatural silence from the Moral Majority that we're hearing - to be sure. And since this sort of thing happens even in the best of families - and even in religious families - that silence is to be expected

Things only change one little bit at a time mOjOm. One of the most obviously Catholic countries in the world just voted in gay marriage - were happy and proud to do it. Now they are the gold standard for much of the rest of the world when it comes to important changes in how we view our world and our lives

One of the reasons why is because they were fed up with the hypocrisy of the church when it came to exactly this subject - the safety of their children

Abusers are often victims of abuse themselves. So - this explains the church (to some extent). Information, education, compassion and a new approach to how we handle all this is the only way forward

Anger is normal - frying sinners helps nobody

Try and understand, this one scandal is just a drop in the bucket. But also in this one scandal we have this 14y/o kid who abuses his sisters. Then goes on to become a political voice in the country and part of TV sensation with a family who promotes patriarchal indoctrination of the family unit. He becomes an executive of an organization about Family Values and Morality which also includes both a cop and a minister also convicted of Child Pornography.

Add that to the multiple scandals in Europe right now and here in the US about High Political figures, Wealthy and Powerful Elite and Big name entertainers all who are allegedly part of even more Child Sexual Abuse.

Least not forget about the decades of sexual abuse within the Catholic Church. All of which is constantly being covered up or dismissed.

I'm not the only one who is seeing a pattern here. IMO it's time to stop dismissing this kind of stuff. I'm not saying to viciously attack everyone involved on a personal level. Most everyone involved I have no doubt is probably both a victim as well as an abuser also so some sensitivity is required. But this needs to be addressed. It will be painful and horrible to expose the truth of it, but trying to down play the reality of it or the severity of it is not going to help anyone past, present or future that this kind of behavior effects.

The worst part is the hypocrisy of it all. The Moral High ground seems to always be claimed by those who abuse such morality the most. They institutionalize their behavior and then hide behind those same organizations making them all untouchable. They project all their own sins on others and ruin the lives of others who don't have big institutions to hide behind or to falsify history for them or who are sometimes completely innocent of anything but living their own lives. That to me is the worst part of it.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Agreed. That attitude considers only the perpetrator's innocence and leans heavily toward "boys will be boys". People keep saying that he was young and kids do this kind of thing. But no one seems to consider the girls and the damage they will suffer all their lives.

If Josh's "counseling" was inadequate, which it appears it was, given it was performed by a man whose in prison for child porn and a minister who is a sexual predator, I doubt the girls' counseling was any better, if they got any at all. The Duggars wanted to keep it from authorities and in "in the church", but thankfully, it's out now. I hope these girls (women?) can get the help they need.

Somehow I doubt it. According to their religion, they're not allowed to hold jobs or go to college from what I've read. Just home school the kids. Counseling? What's that. Go build a house. Now they're "counseled".

a reply to: Anyafaj

The girl's counseling most likely consisted of praying more to God for longer period of times. If they sent the girls for real counseling, the counselor would have had to report it themselves because the girls were still in the house with their abuser.

---

One of Josh's victims was 5 at the time. 5. There is nothing sexual or tempting about a 5 year old unless you are a pedophile. What Josh did was not a folly of youth or puberty, but a sick and depraved act. People need to stop defending them and the family that was well aware of everything that was going on in their home.

The scope of this keeps growing. Apparently a judge that had been appointed by Mike Huckabee (friend of Josh's) ordered the police to destroy the police records.

According to the Associated Press,

Springdale police spokesman Scott Lewis said Judge Stacey Zimmerman ordered the 2006 offense report destroyed Thursday. Zimmerman didn’t return a request for comment on Friday.

“The judge ordered us yesterday to expunge that record,” Lewis said, adding that similar records are typically kept indefinitely. “As far as the Springdale Police Department is concerned, this report doesn’t exist.”

So Josh Duggar is getting special treatment from an Arkansas judge who is connected to Mike Huckabee who in turn is a close friend of the Duggar family.

Huckabee even referenced the judge’s order in his Facebook post yesterday.

“Those who have enjoyed revealing this long ago sins in order to discredit the Duggar family have actually revealed their own insensitive bloodthirst, for there was no consideration of the fact that the victims wanted this to be left in the past and ultimately a judge had the information on file destroyed—not to protect Josh, but the innocent victims.”

Addincting Info

Then there's the Home school curriculum developed by another accused sexual predator.



To me it's looking more and more like there's a massive pedophile ring. What the hell is going on in Arkansas?

a reply to: Kali74


I am surprised Huckabee pushed forward with it. His own supporters want to string him up over defending Josh's actions.

By the sounds of this thread it isnt just Arkansas. Lot of people want to see this kept in the family and handled internally.