What [if anything] does the existence of unsolved cases really prove?

originally posted by: Kandinsky


Much later on, Vallee and Hynek acquired the 'Pentacle memo (link 1 and link 2)' that was marked top secret and detailed plans to orchestrate a UFO flap as an expensive military exercise. Whilst not being a smoking gun exactly, it points towards the possibility that what we think were genuine flaps might not all have been. Notice I'm not saying all of them...maybe some of them. I'm not particularly in-sync with Vallee's conclusions of the Pentacle memo; it can be interpreted several ways.

We can pretty much discard this.
The Pentacle Memo was written by Dr. Howard C. Cross, a metallurgist who worked at the Battelle Memorial Institute. He conducted, and likely directed, the study of the suspicious metal, coined "memory metal" found from the Roswell crash that was flown to Wright Patterson Air Force Base. He had some interesting connections and ties to intelligence agencies that coincided with his work at Battelle. Basically, the memo outlines a scheme for the Air Force to stage the appearance of artificial UFOs in order to gain an understanding of how witnesses would report these sightings and what type of psychological impact they may have. There is no evidence that this was done however.

a reply to: TrueMessiah

No the face palm was adequate.

can you provide clarification on what is a childish response and what isn't? Thanks in advance

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: TrueMessiah

No the face palm was adequate.

can you provide clarification on what is a childish response and what isn't? Thanks in advance

Reaction gifs are for all ages.

a reply to: TrueMessiah

Yes, I know who Cross was and what he did; his name was in one of my links (Bob Sheaffer).

Basically, the memo outlines a scheme for the Air Force to stage the appearance of artificial UFOs in order to gain an understanding of how witnesses would report these sightings and what type of psychological impact they may have.

Are you somehow under the impression that I can't read or have comprehension problems? I only ask as you've pointed out the obvious. Of course I know what the memo outlines, I posted the damn thing. I also said I wasn't in-sync with Vallee and linked to a skeptical site.

Whether the idea was carried out is not known to me. I was using it as a proof of concept that flaps could be faked. Anyway, I won't repeat myself as I've explained the gist in the previous post...with the usual caveats.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Fair enough but this part of your post is what I had an issue with here:

originally posted by: Kandinsky
Whilst not being a smoking gun exactly, it points towards the possibility that what we think were genuine flaps might not all have been. Notice I'm not saying all of them...maybe some of them.

Without the evidence to back those suspected flaps up.....
It's no smoking gun at all. Nor is there a "possibility" for us to think that these actual flaps were anything other than genuine at all. And no, not "maybe some of them", none of them at all.

a reply to: TrueMessiah

I think all Kandinsky is trying to say is we cant discount the govt perpetrating some of these sightings. Or any hoaxer for that matter, like the Hudson valley planes.

a reply to: TrueMessiah
Wow, I guess you know how to have a mature conversation

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

and my expert brother would know that for certain

funbox

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: TrueMessiah
Wow, I guess you know how to have a mature conversation

Of course. We also have emoticons to use for expression, would you have preferred me using those instead?

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: TrueMessiah

I think all Kandinsky is trying to say is we cant discount the govt perpetrating some of these sightings. Or any hoaxer for that matter, like the Hudson valley planes.

Understood, but as far as that Pentacle memo is concerned, you can take it out with the trash.

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: TrueMessiah
Wow, I guess you know how to have a mature conversation

Of course. We also have emoticons to use for expression, would you have preferred me using those instead?

Or you can use your words

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

ack ! Brother , pictures are just as good for making a point



funbox

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

So says the member who has used a emoticon 3 times in a row + words.

Words = plain and bland
Words + emoticon = cool
Gif + words = awesome

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: TrueMessiah

I think all Kandinsky is trying to say is we cant discount the govt perpetrating some of these sightings. Or any hoaxer for that matter, like the Hudson valley planes.

The Hudson Valley sightings and abductions were one of the most significant events in the history of alien contact. Over twenty-thousand witnesses and hundreds of alien encounters, including my own and my family.

Some people tried to fly ultralights in formation to fool people. No one was fooled. The actual sightings and abductions went right on happening.

a reply to: funbox

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

not bad ,hands up, did you make it yourself ? cause I didn't notice

funbox

a reply to: TrueMessiah

Dr Leon Davidson was one of the main guys behind Blue Book’s SR14 and its release to the public. If you haven’t read it yet, it’s the one that left some 22% of sightings reports as unexplained. He wasn’t a debunker in any clichéd sense and he still argued that Adamski’s sightings had been orchestrated by military officials.

If he was correct, it’s evidence that hoaxing sightings occurred on at least one occasion.

To declare that there is zero possibility of other reports being hoaxed is naïve. We don’t know what was behind any of the more well-known ‘flaps’ and yet you can say what they were not. I’m talking about possibilities and you jump in with certainties.

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: TrueMessiah

I think all Kandinsky is trying to say is we cant discount the govt perpetrating some of these sightings. Or any hoaxer for that matter, like the Hudson valley planes.

I think they are more likely using hoaxes AFTER sightings to contain the situation, like they did in Phoenix. and like they did in Hudson Valley. Those sightings were going on long before the hoax planes.

I see a pattern of hoaxes after the fact at major sightings, not hoaxes being mistaken for sightings.

originally posted by: Kandinsky

To declare that there is zero possibility of other reports being hoaxed is naïve. We don’t know what was behind any of the more well-known ‘flaps’ and yet you can say what they were not. I’m talking about possibilities and you jump in with certainties.

Who said anything about a zero possibility of other reports being hoaxed? I was strictly speaking on the Pentacle memo. That's why I only quoted the paragraph that you posted pertaining to it and said "we can pretty much discard this".

This is a thread that I want to comment on because it gets to the philosophical or occult aspect of the UFO phenomena somewhat.


It seems to me that this UFO contact phenomenon is getting more like the religious experience, and contact with an alien presence by an individual can be correlated to a spiritual experience in that it is essentially a personal experience

Even though it may be your best friend, who you know is a truthful person, that tells you he was visited by an alien, the fact of the matter is that if you don’t have the experience yourself you still don’t KNOW the truth of it.


What needs to be done is something called universal acceptance of it just as we universally KNOW the world is not flat. Or universally accept Russia is where they say it is on a map or any place.


Does that mean everyone must be visited by a space ship on a massive scale or individual? I don’t know but it would help.


At this point I think science is in the way in that it is the expectations of science and what we think is logical that is a veil to the acceptance of the UFO phenomena.

We think and expect science to understand everything and be able to explain it to us.

But we have to realize that science is evolving out of ignorance so it isn’t a panacea.

Science has become arrogant and in-fact, as I said, a veil to the truth of alien UFO visitation.


One last point. Its clear that the reality of this and whether we get universal knowledge and acceptance is out of our hands.


Its about the superior perspective versus the inferior perspective. The superior perspective will always call the shots and in this case that isn’t us.