posted on May, 22 2015 @ 07:31 PM
"A feeling you have is not demonstrable evidence and that is what I'm talking about. It is also not even something verified by you. How do you
know that feeling is God? Have you examined it or tested it to make sure and validate that it's not just gas, or cancer, or a brain abnormality, or
Yes. I said up there that I have tested it. It is not simply a "feeling" it is a sensation that consistently occurs during prayer. In a way, it's
similar to extreme butterflies one experiences when in love. It does not come when I want it to. When I pray i ask for guidance, and when I stumble
upon a realization or ask the right question, the feeling occurs. It does NOT occur when I want it to. Often the feeling happens when I don't. But it
is consistent and as real to me as any feeling I've ever had for another human being.
"I'm not assuming anything about logic nor asserting logic as a universal law of some kind. There are different forms of logic. When I say logic I
mean the process used to validate or invalidate some theory which I can demonstrate or show why I'm making each step. That would be a form of
evidence. That is how you prove something. Because let's be honest, Nobody cares what you or I think. They do care about what you or I can
I don't agree. I think there is more to life than what can be "proved." Love technically cannot be "proved" the way that we experience it. Sure,
neurological processes might correspond with the feeling. God is something you can and people have EXPERIENCED. People value their own and others'
experiences in life, too. You're also being naive in thinking that what is provable by our current knowledge and tools is all that is. Plenty of
things were not provable just 100 years ago that are today provable with the knowledge and tools that we have. Before they were proven, they were
unproven hypotheses which are no better than evidence-less beliefs. Just because they couldn't prove atoms existed 2000 years ago didn't mean that
atoms did not exist. The existence and nature of a creator in its ENTIRETY would be the ultimate question. The question beyond all questions which we
are currently struggling to question. Believers hold that God reveals himself in other ways, and we may or may not be able to understand Him through
science in the future. Science has no evidence for inorganic life becoming organic life. Nor does it have a decent, proven explanation for
consciousness. If I am wrong, please provide me with a link. Please also elaborate on the proof of the Big Bang besides the visible expansion of the
universe and supposed left over radiation. Personally I belief in the Big Bang, but through Intelligent Design.
"Doesn't seem logical to me at all. You are inserting God because you want to. You could just as easily say the Universe is Eternal so there is no
need for God to come first to create it. You're still left with the same dilemma too. Where did an Eternal Universe come from?? or Where did an
Eternal God come from??"
Great. It doesn't seem logical to you? Your belief doesn't seem logical to me, either, though my misguided younger self would find it logical. Yes.
We ARE left with the same dilemma. I totally agree! Except I'm claiming that INTELLIGENCE, LOVE, LIFE, and CONSCIOUSNESS are eternal as well, within
God. I am not inserting God because I want to. I am not explaining complexity with more complexity. The only difference between your claim and mine is
the above. Instead, you would (I'm assuming) argue that life "magically" (yes, magically, because there is no scientific explanation for inorganic
matter becoming self replicating organic matter) appeared in a purposeless universe and eventually evolved into self aware intelligence. You think the
rest of the universe--the energy that it is all made up of, at least--has always existed and is eternal. I go further to claim that the four things
above are eternal and originate with God. The probability of life spawning from non life is virtually nonexistent. Where do these probabilities even
stem from? Where does the order and laws of the universe come from?
I state God. Because I view an INTELLIGENCE behind it all. You might question where God and his abilities and intelligence came from, but I would
answer that the question is invalid. We are left to assume SOMETHING is eternal. I claim intelligence; you claim non intelligent randomness.
"It's easy to just claim an Eternal God Creator but you can't explain how such a thing could even exist so to claim that as true is a lie. You
can't show any proof or evidence of God but you go even further and claim to know the attributes of God also. That is hardly logical."
Read the above. The universe itself could be used as proof of a creator, you just choose not to use it as such. Regardless, this is the biggest
question. The question above all others. To think we are at the stage of knowledge and understanding to know one way or another through logic and
science is absurd.
"Yes, I will agree that we exist and we share that existence in basically the same way. Like I said earlier, you choose to replace Universe with
God. Actually you don't even replace them at all you just put God before Universe. But anyway, I don't see the reason to do that other than because
you want to."
And I don't see a reason you find God illogical besides that you want to see it that way.
"Don't make the mistake of saying "Atheists believe....." There is no collective beliefs with Atheists other than they "lack belief in God".
That's all. Other than that Atheists believe all kinds of different things."
I was an atheist when I was younger. I'm making generalizations
"BTW, you skipped over how God created everything if it wasn't magic."
Magic has a derogatory connotation in debates like these. The word 'magic' is utilized to make it sound absurd. This is why it is not "magic." If
there is a God, it would technically be ALL that IS NATURAL and is therefore only supernatural in the sense that it is beyond our current scientific