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What is actually the Mummy of the so called Roswell Slides? it is really Human or Not and Why?

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posted on May, 21 2015 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: The angel of light

If at the end of the story those tests show that the creature is not human, in spite to be a mummy, as one professor of the National Forensic institute of Mexico says, supporting Maussan claims, then who is right now the favorite villain of the Ufology and the object of all the mockery should turn to be immediately the maximum Hero of this discipline.

If those supposed children mummies of the native Americans (or Egyptians) are really extraterrestrial bodies of the ancient past preserved by their ancestors or by the dessert environmental conditions, then the Roswell incident will appear to be as Joke in comparison with such a finding.



Dear Readers,

We all are fully informed by the media of the outcome of the presentation of some slides in May 5th 2015 in the National Auditorium of Mexico city, and that were taken in 1947 in some still undetermined place, it could be a museum or some other institution, by Mrs Hilda Ray Blair, an attorney at Law of Midland Texas, that were considered for long time by the most famous researchers in UFO phenomenon likely to refer to the Roswell Incidents of that same year.

Well, we have right now two sides that show apparently irreconcilable positions with respect to what is showed in the slides. A lot of so called debunkers of hoaxes claim that it is just a child mummy, but they have not yet showed which one is, although there are three strong candidates:

- a Native American one that once was located in the Mesa Verde National park museum in Colorado
- an Egyptian one found in Tebas that is right now in the Smithsonian Museum at Washington DC.
- a Native American one that has been in exhibition in the Million Dollar museum of White City, NM.

Also we have Mr Jaime Maussan, a so famous Mexican Journalist that has been awarded in multiple occasions along the world for his research on UFO phenomena, and who claim that it could be a mummy but not human, and it is backed in his claims by the National Mexican Institute of Forensic Sciences.

This Thread is opened in this forum to allow experts in Biological Sciences and Medicine to express their opinion, evaluate and criticize what it was determined by the team of forensic experts in Mexico.

The comment at the top of this opening post were taken from another thread that it is matter of a discussion about the slides among ufologists of different backgrounds in a separate forum.

The video here presented in the link is posted in youtube showing what it was the official act of presentation of the report of the National Mexican Institute of Forensic Sciences concerning the body showed in the so called Roswell Slides.


The Presentation was introduced by Dr Miguel Angel Alvarez, Director of the Institute, so it has the full endorsement of that coorporation.

The presentation was carried out by Professor Dr Jose de Jesus Zalce-Benitez , Forensic Physican of the Institute and graduated in the school of that discipline of the Mexican National Army, so he is a military. This expert has been faculty of the National School of Forensic Medicine of Mexico and of the University of London, he is the principal of the Forensic department of the Mexican Navy. Part of his studies were in the forensic medical department of the Mexican Air force.

The study was carried out along two months of analysis by a team of physicians, anthropologists and forensic dentists.


Here it is the video , with subtitles in English.

www.youtube.com...

I think this is a material that pay off to be checked, I am not asking to accept their findings or conclusions, but it is fair to be showed and discussed here due to the magnitude of the scandal generated from the presentation of those slides.

It is important to remark that both sides of this controversy accuse the other to be involved in a plot of misinformation and a possible conspiracy to deceive the public opinion about the real nature of this body.

If there is anybody in the forum with forensic Medical studies, or any Physician or Biologist, it would be really interesting to know other concepts and also any possible criticism of their methods, their way to conclude and their diagnostics.

It is interesting to comment that Mr Maussan is still endorsed in his claims by Tom Carey, who is a retired American Military that has spent many years in UFO research and by the Astronaut Edgar Mitchell, of the original crew of the Apollo 14 mission, as well as by survived witnesses of the original Roswell incidents of July 1947.


By the way some important conclusions of this team of experts were:

- it is not a normal human mummy, it has huge anatomic anomalies.

- it shows preservation using formaldehyde, alcohol and formol, but it was refrigerated at some point.

- it shows that the death may be connected with a possible physical trauma of an accident at great speed.

- There are no known pathologies that can alter a human body to look as the one of the slides.

- The proportions of the bones defy any possibility for a human.

- The diameter of the head is practically the same width of the back or thorax.

- The size of the head is as big as the Thorax and abdomen together.

- The body does not have upper jaw and masseter.

- The number of ribs does not correspond to the human ones, are only 6 pairs, in different angle.

- There are no mammal glandes, no ears and the hands have only 3 fingers and the feet only three toes.

- The human mummies don't have preserved eyes of such size .

So this is the Medical report that defies the hypothesis that is a human mummy, either native American or Egyptian, and that is shocking with the findings in the placard.

Is this a case of misidentification of a Human boy mummy with some extremely rare combination of deformities by enthusiastiasts and believers in the UFO phenomena?

or

A case of misclassification by a museum archivist or curator that labeled a body in exhibition as a child mummy
when that claim was never fully confirmed?

and

Are we dealing with one of the worst hoax of the History of Ufology, one that involved a entire team of professionals of the forensic
sciences that have worked in the Arm forces of a country?

or

Are we witnessing extraterrestrial remains preserved since ancient times confirming that our planet is being visited by aliens
since thousands of years ago?

Thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 5/21/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 21 2015 @ 11:12 AM
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Give it up already. Of course it's human. Don't be a fool...



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

I expect here a high level of discussion in terms of medical concepts, in particular of forensic practice, this thread is not opened for personal attacks, but to show intelligent use of science in the replies, either to support or to attack one or other hypothesis.

What is attackable here are the previously formulated hypotheses that try to solve the conundrum created by the slides , that must be proved or disproved, beyond reasonable doubt, we are not here to insult persons, so decorum in the replies is a must.

It is important to clarify that even if what the slides show would not be really Human, it would not be an isolated case in History.

There is also a so interesting case of a Mummy of Ancient Egypt that was moved from that country to Russia , in times of the Soviet Union, and that it was known as the body of the Visitor, a strange figure of the ancient past of that country that many believed was the real support of the mythical Hermes Trismegistus, the so called civilizator divinity of the Egyptian pantheon, also called Osiris. Text


Here a video that include images that supposedly were found by researchers in old secret archives of the KGB , the intelligence Soviet central, after the fall of the USSR. The video contains an actual old soviet film that was recording in a mission called Project ISIS , a Russian archaeological expedition to Egypt in the late 1950s when Egypt was ruled by General Gamal Abdel Nasser, a so important Ally of Nikita Khrushchev.

This material was presented first time by a production The secret KGB abduction files of David McKenzie, Brian O'learyl, Paul Sharrat, James Romanovich and was hosted by the so famous British 007 star Roger Moore.

www.youtube.com...

The great problem with the Egyptian mummy of the visitor is that it was exported to St Petersburg Russia, and it was never returned to Egypt.


Thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 5/21/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 12:00 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

Occam's Razor. It's a human. /thread


This Thread is opened in this forum to allow experts in Biological Sciences and Medicine to express their opinion, evaluate and criticize what it was determined by the team of forensic experts in Mexico.


What, to analysis a YouTube video? Be serious for a moment.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: GetHyped

The video is a formal final representation by a multidisciplinary team of experts of the National Mexican Institute of Forensic Sciences on what it is displayed in the so called Roswell Slides, so the fact that somebody posted it in Youtube is irrelevant.

If you prefer you can access the same information is in www.bewtiness.org, the site in English of the event of May 5th 2015.

What really matters is the presentation of the content of the Forensic analysis carried out along 2 months of checking of the body depicted in the images.

Now, if you have not yet start to check the video let me point that the image of the slides is analyzed exhaustively feature by feature along a very detailed talk given by Dr Jose de Jesus Zalce-Benitez in representation of the team of analysts.

It is not Jaime Maussan who is giving the talk, it is an actual specialist with Medical degree , faculty positions with Tenure in a dependency of the National University of Mexico ( The National School of Forensic Medicine ) and an officer of the Mexican Army.


Let me share here the video of Betwitness about the interview to the Canadian expert in Compared Anatomy of Vertebrates, Human evolution, and expert in forensic Science of the Canadian Police, with degrees of the Toronto University and the University of Torino.

Here also gives the benefit of the doubt to the body displayed in the Slides, and claims he mummy is not Human at all:

www.youtube.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 5/21/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: GetHyped

The video is a formal final representation by a multidisciplinary team of experts of the National Mexican Institute of Forensic Sciences on what it is displayed in the so called Roswell Slides,


Can you link me to their institutional website? I googled that name in quotes and literally the only reference on the whole internet was your post.


If you prefer you can access the same information is in www.bewtiness.org, the site in English of the event of May 5th 2015.


That website does not exist.


Now, if you have not yet start to check the video let me point that the image of the slides is analyzed exhaustively feature by feature along a very detailed talk given by Dr Jose de Jesus Zalce-Benitez in representation of the team of analysts.


Can you link me to this Dr's affiliated institution? I can't find anything online about him, other than references to this mummy hoax. Real Drs don't exist in just name, they have a paper trail of publications. Can you link me to any?


It is not Jaime Maussan who is giving the talk, it is an actual specialist with Medical degree , faculty positions with Tenure in a dependency of the National University of Mexico ( The National School of Forensic Medicine ) and an officer of the Mexican Army.


Can you link me to this institution's website? As with the previous, the only reference on the whole internet I can find is in your post.

Notice the trend here?

Occam's Razor.
edit on 21-5-2015 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: GetHyped

Dear GetHyped,

Let me go by parts because you have asked a lot in only one post, and I am not surprised of your level of skepticism, after all there is right now a huge Media Campaign in America to bury the slides the sooner the best, it is clear that there are powerful interests discrediting them at any cost and trying the close the case without public discussion at all.

Here is the link to the personal page on the National Mexican Institute of Forensic Sciences website of the office of its General Director Engineer Miguel Angel Alvarez, who is the guy introducing the presentation of the results in the video.

Mr Miguel A Alvarez is not only the General Director of the National Institute but also the President of an international Forensic organization called Confederación Mundial de Ciencias Forenses ( World confederation of Forensic Sciences)

www.inacifo.org.mx...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

Why is it I cannot find any reference to this "Instituto Nacional de Ciencias Forenses" in Mexico other than their website (which looks incredibly suspect as it is)? There is no address or reference to this place anywhere else. Why is that?



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:53 PM
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Here is the website related to COMUCIF (Confederacion Mundial de Ciencias Forenses), Translates to the World Confederation of Forensic Sciences, of which this Instituto Nacional de Ciencias Forenses (National Institue of Forensic Science) belongs.

COMUCIF


I see nothing but facebook links and I don't use Facebook.

They seem to have a foundation for the protection of children.

The Instituto seems like nothing more than a CV for Miguel Angel Alvarez Martinez, who himself seems to be a criminal forensic scientist.

My mistake, he seems to be an Engineer.



edit on 21-5-2015 by Jonjonj because: corrected a mistake



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: Jonjonj

And funnily enough, the only reference to this "Confederación Mundial de Ciencias Forenses" is... Miguel Angel Alvarez Martinez's website www.inacifo.org.mx (he is the register of the domain).

The email of the website is inacifo1@yahoo.com.mx

Really?? A yahoo email address??

Yeah, I'm getting a strong odor of BS about all of this.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: GetHyped

I agree, the more one clicks links, the more circular it gets.

All roads lead to ROME indeed.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: GetHyped

Dear GetHyped,

Here are other links that anwer some of your other questions, I agree that we need to proceed cautiously but with open mind, we need to understand that Maussan can be bold, he can be a journalist that takes incredible risks to hunt a news, but a person in his position in Mexico, with a career of about 45 years, working for the most powerful TV channels of Mexico it is unlikely that will bring to support his claims people with no credentials at all to give their concept.

I have listened a lot of so much negative comments about him on the last weeks that I start to think that possibly he has some reason to complain that there is a sort of witches hunting against him, a possible plot. After all the amount of International awards in Journalism that Maussan has received in his career is outstanding. he has awards not only from Mexico, also from Spain, Italy and Canada.

es.wikipedia.org...

Now, let me back to your questions on the Physician:

Dr Jose de Jesus Zalce-Benites has he following credentials:

Captain ( Mexican Navy)

Surgeon of the Mexican Navy

Specialization in Forensic Medicine at the Graduate School of the Mexican Army University.

Specialization in Intelligence at the National Institute of Public Surveillance ( Mexico)

He got a Diploma in Aerospace medicine in the Mexican Air force College. ( dependency of SEDENA)

Also with Diploma in Forensic Antropology of the National School of Antropology and History of Mexico ( ENAH)

His is the Principal of the office of Legal and Forensic Medicine of the Mexican Navy.

here are some important links about him:

His Professional License as Navy Phsycian with the degree of the Navy Medicine School of Mexico that appears registered at:

www.buholegal.com...

cedula.buholegal.com...

He appears as faculty teaching formal Graduate level courses and seminars of different medical subjects in a special Manual of courses of the School of Navy medicine of Mexico:

Check pages 6,7, 8,9, 10, 11,12, 13,14,15,16, 17,18, 21,23

www.docstoc.com...

His registered in the Directory of Navy surgeons of Mexico

www.buscarsalud.com...

Here it is the Official written report of the National Insitute of Forensic Sciences about the analysis of the slides:

bewitness.mx...

This Navy Physician is the one that presented the so detailed and extensive forensic report in the video claimed that the body of the mummy is not human.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness


edit on 5/21/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light




A case of misclassification by a museum archivist or curator that labeled a body in exhibition as a child mummy
when that claim was never fully confirmed?


this is a possible scenario...and it's been known to happen.


now, about the medical forensic analysis...they practically base the entire thing on an analysis of a grainy photo ? I find that a bit over reaching. Without the body in question....i'm afraid it's not enough.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

Can you address the other issues raised before moving onto another topic?



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:44 PM
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So what are we to belive?

That aliens mysteriously become mummified on contact with Earth air?

Or that in 1947 we were invaded by alien mummies .....?



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: The angel of light




A case of misclassification by a museum archivist or curator that labeled a body in exhibition as a child mummy
when that claim was never fully confirmed?


this is a possible scenario...and it's been known to happen.


now, about the medical forensic analysis...they practically base the entire thing on an analysis of a grainy photo ? I find that a bit over reaching. Without the body in question....i'm afraid it's not enough.


Yes, sadly we have moved from "irrefutable proof of the existence of alien life" to the rather less spectacular, and highly subjective "maybe, back in the day, the actual museum exhibit that this CLEARLY IS, was misclassified"

I mean...smh



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: GetHyped

I have not gone out of the topic at all, to the contrary I am trying to satisfy your curiosity on the profile of the Mexican forensic experts that decided to put their careers in risk supporting fully the hypothesis that what the Slides are showing, the body would correspond to an Alien.

I believe the public opinion here in America deserve to know all the truth about this scandal, since the media is right now giving credit only to one version.

I personally do not have interest in to prove that any of the two sides is right, but It would not be surprising for me at all if both have at most just part of the truth in this so complicate issue.

After all, a lot of debunkers of the so called slides of Roswell are supporting the story that it corresponds to a mummy that was donated or acquired by a museum in Mesa verde that in about a century having such an object in their collections never got any picture of it, so we must trust a written description of the 1890s that is refereed from a document of the 1930s.

What is that? In 1930s and also in 1890s there was photography, it was perfectly possible to document formally items of a museum in cataloging them, so there is no justification at all for the absence of images, moreover that is what is mandatory according with international protocols of handling and inventorying archaeological objects that are cultural patrimony.

I am sorry but I am not going to be fooled with such empty argument, it seems more intelligent to remain neutral and continue searching for the truth in this case.

Here more links,

About Mr Miguel Angel Alvarez Martinez, an Industrial Engineer graduated in Toluca, Mexico, that is the General director of the INACIFO , who has been also Professor in Mexico.

lupitagrafoscopa.wix.com...#!ing-miguel-angel-alvarez-martinez/cx1o

lupitagrafoscopa.wix.com...#!properties/ctzx

lupitagrafoscopa.wix.com...#!about/cjn9

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness


edit on 5/21/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

You do realise that they are basically selling diplomas on that site, am I correct?



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: Jonjonj

That is a claim that enters deeply in the land of nowhere, it is a mere speculation from your side, they offer a Program of studies in which there is a curriculum arranged in a courses plan that must be followed and passed satisfactorily to get the Diploma.

Please check the page 66 of this document endorsed by the Social development Secretary and The National Institute of Social development of Mexico, that are government dependencies

indesol.gob.mx...

By the way I don't think a fake College would be the place in which an officer with degree of surgeon from the Medical school of the Navy of country would work, that is pretty mediocre conjecture.

I opened the thread to open a discussion of a diagnostics or forensic evaluation of a body, and you are bring here only attacks to the integrity or career of the experts that carried out it.

Here it is the curriculum of the Navy Medicine school of Mexico , showing the content of all the courses needed to graduate. This is the program from which Dr Jose de Jesus Zalce B. is Alumnus, and years after became also Professor.

www.digaden.edu.mx...

Here is the record in Mexico of the license of Dr Jose de J Zalce Benitez that shows he graduate with Master of Science in forensic Medicine
In the University of the Mexican Air force.

www.buscarsalud.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness


edit on 5/21/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Dear MarioOnTheFly,

That is true, it is a really risky attempt to determine something without having the actual body, however, they had two slides of acceptable quality and on them it was quite visible the anatomy of the corpse.

Now, I really think there is no malicious intention in this physician to generate misinformation, I think he did what it was possible with the slide and some of his observations are pretty smart, reveal that he actually checked all the details on the images without bypassing any one , so his conclusions were not taking from simple inspection.

If you check the written report, that I have already disclosed in one of my previous replies, it is pretty extensive and also it has a bibliography that contains some interesting references that can be traced by the ones that remain skeptical.

Again, this possibility we are analyzing in this thread is that perhaps what is on the slides is not really any of the bodies of the Roswell Incident of 1947, but that does not imply that can't be another extraterrestrial remain that possibly has other story to tell us.

In other words, this a Third Hypothesis in the middle of the road of the other two that have monopolized all the attention of the media, that is, that is just a mummy of a boy with some deformity or the Claim of Mr Maussan that is a Roswell body.

If this body finally results to be not human in spite to be a kind of mummy, the implications would be even more compelling than the original claim that was a corpse of what fell in Roswell, since it could even reveal that the southwest of the USA or Egypt were visited by UFOs since ancient times.


We are considering here the possibility that the two groups in dispute have some portion of the truth, but not all. The third hypothesis rescue the best of the two positions and find an explanation that can be satisfactory for everybody.

This is in part based on a Theory that has been formulated 45 years ago and since then deeply explored by researchers like the Swiss antropologist Erich Von Daniken, who has studied a lot of myths around different cultures of the world that he believe are evidence of close encounters of the past.

Return of the God by Erich Von Daniken

en.wikipedia.org...


Thanks for your comment,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 5/21/2015 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)




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