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USA! USA! USA! Calling all 'Patriots'!

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posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:25 AM
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This one goes out to the die-hard 'patriots' who are proudly and loudly of the opinion that the U.S. is always on the side of justice and accuse U.S. detractors of 'not understanding how the world really works' and being 'ungrateful' or 'disrespectful' to this 'great' and 'righteous' nation. You know who you are, as you have recently posted threads on the 'idiocy' of any who might have a bone to pick with the U.S. and have the audacity to accuse it of perpetrating injustices.

There is quite the laundry list of massacres committed by Uncle Sam, but the one I'd like to focus on in this particular thread is the My Lai Massacre, which was a


mass killing of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968.


and


Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated.



The villagers, who were getting ready for a market day, at first did not panic or run away, and they were herded into the hamlet's commons. Harry Stanley, a machine gunner from the Charlie Company, said the killings started without warning. He first observed a member of the 1st Platoon strike a Vietnamese man with a bayonet. Then, the same trooper pushed another villager into a well and threw a grenade in the well. Further, he saw fifteen or twenty people, mainly women and children, kneeling around a temple with burning incense. They were praying and crying. They were all killed by shots in the head.



A large group of approximately 70–80 villagers was rounded up by the 1st Platoon in Xom Lang, and then led to an irrigation ditch to the east of the settlement. All detainees were pushed into the ditch and then killed after repeated orders issued by Lieutenant Calley, who was also shooting. Paul Meadlo, a Private First Class (PFC), testified that he expended several M16 magazines. He recollected that women were allegedly saying "No VC" and were trying to shield their children. He remembered that he was shooting into women with babies in their hands



On another occasion, Meadlo again fired into civilians side-by-side with Lieutenant Calley.

PFC Dennis Konti, a witness for the prosecution, told about one especially gruesome episode during the shooting, "A lot of women had thrown themselves on top of the children to protect them, and the children were alive at first. Then, the children who were old enough to walk got up and Calley began to shoot the children".



Livestock was shot as well.



"Setting fire to the hootches and huts and waiting for people to come out and then shooting them...going into the hootches and shooting them up...gathering people in groups and shooting them... As I walked in you could see piles of people all through the village… all over. They were gathered up into large groups. I saw them shoot an M79 [grenade launcher] into a group of people who were still alive. But it was mostly done with a machine gun. They were shooting women and children just like anybody else. We met no resistance and I only saw three captured weapons. We had no casualties. It was just like any other Vietnamese village - old papa-sans, women and kids. As a matter of fact, I don't remember seeing one military-age male in the entire place, dead or alive."



"There were some South Vietnamese people, maybe fifteen of them, women and children included, walking on a dirt road maybe 100 yards away. All of a sudden the GIs just opened up with M16s. Beside the M16 fire, they were shooting at the people with M79 grenade launchers... I couldn't believe what I was seeing."



One group of 20-50 villagers was walked to the south of Xom Lang and killed on a dirt road.


Ubiquitously referred to as

"the most shocking episode of the Vietnam War"
,

one would be hard-pressed to call this anything other than pure, unadulterated evil.

The point of this thread is not to deem the United States the most evil country in the world. The point is to address the fact that there are many, many, many people who have sworn to bring America down for legitimate reasons. And depending on your vantage point, the U.S. might represent only destruction, terror, and depravity in your eyes.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the reality of our global position and our geopolitical situation is unequivocally grey, and to simplify it all by saying that 'us vs them' equals 'good vs evil' is an obscene, naive, ignorant, uneducated, idiotic, is a horrendous position to take and is downright blasphemy in the face of truth, history, pragmatism, and realism. If you want to be 'patriotic' and support all our military interventions because you see it as us or them, or because you love your country, that is fair. But do not for one second kid yourself into thinking the U.S. is synonymous with justice, fairness, and morality.

Get real.




posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:40 AM
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It was a hell of an ugly scene.
The U.S. really had no business being there to begin with.
I don't know how much of this report is true.
The soldiers who were there encountered some hellish resistance.
I have Vietnamese friends who told me that, as young children, they were sent into the field to gather ammunition and weapons from the dead and bring them back to their village to supply soldiers.
A lot of soldiers cracked under the pressure and it no longer mattered if it was a woman or a child.
They were watching their fellow soldiers get killed left and right by women and children.
They became evil to survive.
War is Hell.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:48 AM
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Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...there is no nation on earth that you would give a sainthood.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:50 AM
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Well...

"... the actions of a few can't be ascribed to the whole."

"... look at what good we've done elsewhere. Balances everything out."

"... no one's perfect. Comparatively, the US isn't as evil as other countries."

"... yeah, but that was a long time ago. I had nothing to do with it."

Pick your excuse. Did I miss any?



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:00 AM
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a reply to: skunkape23

You are right, we shouldn't have been there in the first place. And I am aware that women and children were killing GI's, and that those soldiers did what they had to do. I sympathize with them for having to live with that when they got home. To me it's a pretty valid reason to resent the people in positions of power that sent them there and ruined their lives forever. All in the name of...justice? Patriotism? Capitalism? They're all hard pills to swallow.

Though you have heard correctly about the despicable methods of guerrilla warfare used by Charlie involving women an children, the merciless and indiscriminate slaying of hundreds of unarmed innocents in this particular instance have been testified to in court, and, sadly, these events have been proven to be true.


edit on 21-5-2015 by humanityrising because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:01 AM
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a reply to: NthOther

yeah, you missed one:

Obama Told Aides He's 'Really Good At Killing People,' New Book 'Double Down' Claims

www.huffingtonpost.com...
just sayin


drones weddings women children and old folks
and no proof even the american nationals done in were quilty of anything
*sigh*
the crappiest business model ever


though you have heard correctly about the despicable methods of guerrilla warfare used by Charlie involving women an children, the merciless and indiscriminate slaying of hundreds of unarmed innocents in this particular instance have been testified to in court, and, sadly, these events have been proven to be true.


when you get invaded ( the gulf of tonkin NEVER happened ) you do what you have to do
to blame someone that small re how the defend themselves against someone so big
who lied so they could justify coming over to rape you
well, I'll let you name that concept just to see what you come up with

edit on Thuam5b20155America/Chicago14 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:08 AM
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originally posted by: NthOther
Well...

"... the actions of a few can't be ascribed to the whole."

"... look at what good we've done elsewhere. Balances everything out."

"... no one's perfect. Comparatively, the US isn't as evil as other countries."

"... yeah, but that was a long time ago. I had nothing to do with it."

Pick your excuse. Did I miss any?


Well put. Citizens of other countries tell themselves the same exact lies after hearing of similar crimes committed by their military. The irony of these U.S. 'patriots' behaving exactly like their counterparts and 'enemies' around the world is baffling.
edit on 21-5-2015 by humanityrising because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:18 AM
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There is a special place in Hell for Henry Kissinger.
Don't forget Laos.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:19 AM
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originally posted by: Danbones

when you get invaded ( the gulf of tonkin NEVER happened ) you do what you have to do
to blame someone that small re how the defend themselves against someone so big
who lied so they could justify coming over to rape you
well, I'll let you name that concept just to see what you come up with


Hypocrisy, ignorance, narcissism, bias due to nationalism, reaction to chaffing perineum...take your pick.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:36 AM
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a reply to: humanityrising

USA! USA! USA!

You are confusing patriots with US foreign policy promoters.


+5 more 
posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:54 AM
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originally posted by: humanityrising
This one goes out to the die-hard 'patriots' who are proudly and loudly of the opinion that the U.S. is always on the side of justice

Those people don't exist really. Thinking the US is right about a particular event does not mean you think the US is infallible.

What you have done is created a false narrative, a logical fallacy. Try again, this time remove your lies.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 03:03 AM
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Patriotism - whoever thought of patriotism as a tool to control the blindly following masses was a clever person.

I often look at the avatars of obviously patriotic Englishmen and wonder how they can be so stupid. As for the Americans... your OP says it all.


+2 more 
posted on May, 21 2015 @ 03:32 AM
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a reply to: and14263

His OP is crap. Show me these posts where people claim the US never has and simply can not do anything wrong, ever.

I am waiting for the deluge.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 03:34 AM
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This is a great documentary from the Vietnam War.
Nobody wanted to be there!



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 03:36 AM
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a reply to: James1970

I actually know one person who did. Said it was the best time of his life because he could legally kill people.

He's currently under investigation for several recent murders and attempted murders.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 03:42 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Sounds like an "American Sniper" type guy. Someone who would kill fellow Americans who are searching for food during a natural disaster. SAD.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 03:49 AM
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originally posted by: James1970
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Sounds like an "American Sniper" type guy. Someone who would kill fellow Americans who are searching for food during a natural disaster. SAD.

Probably would. He "allegedly" murdered his best friend and tried to kill his wife.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 03:54 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
originally posted by: humanityrising

What you have done is created a false narrative, a logical fallacy. Try again, this time remove your lies.


You might have missed the threads I was alluding to; they insisted that all who had resentment towards the U.S. were in the wrong.

I'm only implying that neither side could be considered right, and both have legitimate reasons for their qualms. What is dishonest about that?
edit on 21-5-2015 by humanityrising because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 03:59 AM
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a reply to: humanityrising

So unless someone/something is 100% perfect at all times you should resent them?

Many on ATS who back certain governments/people do so because they hate the US, and the groups they back are guilty of similar or worse crimes but they hypocritically ignore it.

People don't think the US is perfect. They don't think the US government is infallible. They think the US as a whole is a force for good, while admitting tragic mistakes are indeed made.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 04:06 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: and14263

His OP is crap. Show me these posts where people claim the US never has and simply can not do anything wrong, ever.


You're missing the point entirely. I stated my intention clearly - that many who hate America have legitimate reasons to.

You exemplify Occam's Razor to the fullest; oversimplifying complicated issues that can't be quantified with a yes or a no. You haven't really even brought a viewpoint to the table, just hurled stones. What is your opinion of the matter?




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