Bobby Jindal Promises Executive Order Allowing Discrimination Against Gay People

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: dismanrc
Store are very much private if the owner wants them to be. You can lock the door and only allow the people you want in. Done ALL the time with high end stores.

Stores are not private. Learn the law. And only allowing the Kardashians in for a private shopping spree is not discriminating against a demographic.

originally posted by: dismanrc
And no a store does NOT have to be a public accommodation. Just look at all the private clubs and private store that there are all ready.

A "private club" is not a store.
You say there are private stores. Show me one.

Your quote: "And only allowing the Kardashians in for a private shopping spree is not discriminating against a demographic."

How are the "rich" not a demographic??? I thought you and those with your belief consider the rich evil? Aren't we supposed to blame them for all our ills? They keep us down, they should pay more taxes dollar-wise and percentage-wise than us. Hell...you hate the rich or at least promote hate of the rich.

Or...typically...are you changing your beliefs to suit your argument?

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
If I can choose who I do business with, equality is that a business owner is allowed to choose who they do business with.

Business law disagrees with you. When you open a public accommodation, you agree to serve the public and to treat customers equally under the law. Customers don't make the same agreement. A business MAKES MONEY (profit) from the customer, and for that privilege, they agree to treat people equally under the law and not discriminate.

Your logic would state that I could wear a KKK uniform and choose a black baker (for example). Equal would be that the black baker can choose not to accept me in my KKK uniform as a customer.

Not true. A business owner CAN legally deny an individual service. See? It's BUSINESS LAW. That's who your argument is with.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
How are the "rich" not a demographic???

They're not discriminating AGAINST the rich. They are showing preference to one customer (NOT the rich), for a period of time.

You really need to read about discrimination and learn what it means.

I thought you and those with your belief consider the rich evil? Aren't we supposed to blame them for all our ills? They keep us down, they should pay more taxes dollar-wise and percentage-wise than us. Hell...you hate the rich or at least promote hate of the rich.

WTF are you on about? You clearly don't even KNOW my belief, much less are you able to make generalizations about me. You're wrong, anyway.

The amount of mental gymnastics on display here to promote (thinly veiled) discrimination against people is appalling.

If you own a business that serves the public, you serve the PUBLIC, including people who's lifestyles you may disagree with. The law does not permit you to discriminate against any group in the running of your business. It's that simple. If you cater weddings, you can't refuse to cater a wedding because the customer is gay. If you sell sandwiches, you can't refuse to serve a man a sandwich because he is black.

It's that simple.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
If I can choose who I do business with, equality is that a business owner is allowed to choose who they do business with.

Business law disagrees with you. When you open a public accommodation, you agree to serve the public and to treat customers equally under the law. Customers don't make the same agreement. A business MAKES MONEY (profit) from the customer, and for that privilege, they agree to treat people equally under the law and not discriminate.

Your logic would state that I could wear a KKK uniform and choose a black baker (for example). Equal would be that the black baker can choose not to accept me in my KKK uniform as a customer.

Not true. A business owner CAN legally deny an individual service. See? It's BUSINESS LAW. That's who your argument is with.

I'm not referring to law...I'm referring to equal and fair treatment.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
How are the "rich" not a demographic???

They're not discriminating AGAINST the rich. They are showing preference to one customer (NOT the rich), for a period of time.

You really need to read about discrimination and learn what it means.

I thought you and those with your belief consider the rich evil? Aren't we supposed to blame them for all our ills? They keep us down, they should pay more taxes dollar-wise and percentage-wise than us. Hell...you hate the rich or at least promote hate of the rich.

WTF are you on about? You clearly don't even KNOW my belief, much less are you able to make generalizations about me. You're wrong, anyway.

Special treatment to only one group of people is discrimination against another. I can't state that I hire whites only and not be someone who won't hire blacks.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
The amount of mental gymnastics on display here to promote (thinly veiled) discrimination against people is appalling.

If you own a business that serves the public, you serve the PUBLIC, including people who's lifestyles you may disagree with. The law does not permit you to discriminate against any group in the running of your business. It's that simple. If you cater weddings, you can't refuse to cater a wedding because the customer is gay. If you sell sandwiches, you can't refuse to serve a man a sandwich because he is black.

It's that simple.

You are correct about the law. But do deny one person the option of choosing or not choosing an action while allowing the other to do whatever they wish is not fair and equal. Regardless of what the law may be.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
The amount of mental gymnastics on display here to promote (thinly veiled) discrimination against people is appalling.

If you own a business that serves the public, you serve the PUBLIC, including people who's lifestyles you may disagree with. The law does not permit you to discriminate against any group in the running of your business. It's that simple. If you cater weddings, you can't refuse to cater a wedding because the customer is gay. If you sell sandwiches, you can't refuse to serve a man a sandwich because he is black.

It's that simple.

You are correct about the law. But do deny one person the option of choosing or not choosing an action while allowing the other to do whatever they wish is not fair and equal. Regardless of what the law may be.

That is something that the business owner must be willing to accept if they own a business that serves the public. If they are unwilling to serve a certain demographic, they shouldn't own a business. And they CERTAINLY shouldn't be demanding cart blanche to discriminate under the guise of "religious freedom".

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
The amount of mental gymnastics on display here to promote (thinly veiled) discrimination against people is appalling.

If you own a business that serves the public, you serve the PUBLIC, including people who's lifestyles you may disagree with. The law does not permit you to discriminate against any group in the running of your business. It's that simple. If you cater weddings, you can't refuse to cater a wedding because the customer is gay. If you sell sandwiches, you can't refuse to serve a man a sandwich because he is black.

It's that simple.

You are correct about the law. But do deny one person the option of choosing or not choosing an action while allowing the other to do whatever they wish is not fair and equal. Regardless of what the law may be.

That is something that the business owner must be willing to accept if they own a business that serves the public. If they are unwilling to serve a certain demographic, they shouldn't own a business. And they CERTAINLY shouldn't be demanding cart blanche to discriminate under the guise of "religious freedom".

You continue to push a different topic. There is no question what the law is...the question is whether it is fair. And if it is not equal for both the business owner and the customer, I call that unfair. After all...they are both people and each is 50% of any transaction. It should be a "fair" and "equal" transaction without one person having any more control than the other in order to result in a fair transaction where someone isn't getting screwed.

Again...I'm not questioning the law...but consider this.

If a business is the only place where you can get a product or service, it is called a monopoly and is illegal. In other words, if the customer has no choice of which business to use, it is considered unfair. But when there is a choice of businesses, it is considered fair and equal. In order to make it fair for the business owner also, they should be able to choose who they wish to do business with also.

ONE MORE TIME...NOT LAW...FAIRNESS & EQUALITY.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Special treatment to only one group of people is discrimination against another.

The Kardashians are one family, not a demographic group. :eyeroll: I don't know why I'm wasting my time...

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
ONE MORE TIME...NOT LAW...FAIRNESS & EQUALITY.

So, start a thread about it and stop hijacking this one.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Thankfully the law disagrees with your concept of skewed fairness and equality.

Tell me, how is it fair and equal to allow a business owner to discriminate against a group?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
The amount of mental gymnastics on display here to promote (thinly veiled) discrimination against people is appalling.

If you own a business that serves the public, you serve the PUBLIC, including people who's lifestyles you may disagree with. The law does not permit you to discriminate against any group in the running of your business. It's that simple. If you cater weddings, you can't refuse to cater a wedding because the customer is gay. If you sell sandwiches, you can't refuse to serve a man a sandwich because he is black.

It's that simple.

You are correct about the law. But do deny one person the option of choosing or not choosing an action while allowing the other to do whatever they wish is not fair and equal. Regardless of what the law may be.

That is something that the business owner must be willing to accept if they own a business that serves the public. If they are unwilling to serve a certain demographic, they shouldn't own a business. And they CERTAINLY shouldn't be demanding cart blanche to discriminate under the guise of "religious freedom".

And on the business owner note...I own a business. I on occasion turn customers away. Mostly when they seem like they are arrogant or rude and I choose not to do business with them. As far as I know...that is not illegal. But I feel that I and other business owners should be allowed to decide not to do business with anyone for any reason. I mean...what is next. Do we take down the "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" signs because they discriminate? I think the whole thing is ridiculous. And...why are you only worried about "religious" business owners and gay customers? Maybe we should force religious customer to have to frequent gay owned stores? I mean...isn't that just and much discrimination?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Special treatment to only one group of people is discrimination against another.

The Kardashians are one family, not a demographic group. :eyeroll: I don't know why I'm wasting my time...

Neither do I. But as far as I can tell...I'm on topic.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
The amount of mental gymnastics on display here to promote (thinly veiled) discrimination against people is appalling.

If you own a business that serves the public, you serve the PUBLIC, including people who's lifestyles you may disagree with. The law does not permit you to discriminate against any group in the running of your business. It's that simple. If you cater weddings, you can't refuse to cater a wedding because the customer is gay. If you sell sandwiches, you can't refuse to serve a man a sandwich because he is black.

It's that simple.

You are correct about the law. But do deny one person the option of choosing or not choosing an action while allowing the other to do whatever they wish is not fair and equal. Regardless of what the law may be.

That is something that the business owner must be willing to accept if they own a business that serves the public. If they are unwilling to serve a certain demographic, they shouldn't own a business. And they CERTAINLY shouldn't be demanding cart blanche to discriminate under the guise of "religious freedom".

And on the business owner note...I own a business. I on occasion turn customers away. Mostly when they seem like they are arrogant or rude and I choose not to do business with them. As far as I know...that is not illegal. But I feel that I and other business owners should be allowed to decide not to do business with anyone for any reason. I mean...what is next. Do we take down the "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" signs because they discriminate? I think the whole thing is ridiculous. And...why are you only worried about "religious" business owners and gay customers? Maybe we should force religious customer to have to frequent gay owned stores? I mean...isn't that just and much discrimination?

Turning a customer away because they're rude and/or arrogant or whatever is up to the business owner. But the law states you can't turn someone away because they're gay, catholic, black, furry, etc. A protected group cannot be discriminated against BECAUSE they belong to that protected group. If they're rude, sure, turn them away. That's not discrimination.

You're asking the business owners have the right to refuse anyone for ANY reason, including being the wrong color, and that's wrong.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
I on occasion turn customers away. Mostly when they seem like they are arrogant or rude and I choose not to do business with them. As far as I know...that is not illegal.

You're right! That's not illegal! If you understood what discrimination is (legally) you'd know that.

I think the whole thing is ridiculous.

That's probably because you don't understand it.

And...why are you only worried about "religious" business owners and gay customers?

Because religious business owners are the ones who decided to start turning away people because they're gay!

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
The amount of mental gymnastics on display here to promote (thinly veiled) discrimination against people is appalling.

If you own a business that serves the public, you serve the PUBLIC, including people who's lifestyles you may disagree with. The law does not permit you to discriminate against any group in the running of your business. It's that simple. If you cater weddings, you can't refuse to cater a wedding because the customer is gay. If you sell sandwiches, you can't refuse to serve a man a sandwich because he is black.

It's that simple.

You are correct about the law. But do deny one person the option of choosing or not choosing an action while allowing the other to do whatever they wish is not fair and equal. Regardless of what the law may be.

That is something that the business owner must be willing to accept if they own a business that serves the public. If they are unwilling to serve a certain demographic, they shouldn't own a business. And they CERTAINLY shouldn't be demanding cart blanche to discriminate under the guise of "religious freedom".

And on the business owner note...I own a business. I on occasion turn customers away. Mostly when they seem like they are arrogant or rude and I choose not to do business with them. As far as I know...that is not illegal. But I feel that I and other business owners should be allowed to decide not to do business with anyone for any reason. I mean...what is next. Do we take down the "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" signs because they discriminate? I think the whole thing is ridiculous. And...why are you only worried about "religious" business owners and gay customers? Maybe we should force religious customer to have to frequent gay owned stores? I mean...isn't that just and much discrimination?

Turning someone away for being rude or not wearing a shirt is COMPLETELY different than turning someone away for their skin color or their sexuality. That isn't even CLOSE to comparable.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
The amount of mental gymnastics on display here to promote (thinly veiled) discrimination against people is appalling.

If you own a business that serves the public, you serve the PUBLIC, including people who's lifestyles you may disagree with. The law does not permit you to discriminate against any group in the running of your business. It's that simple. If you cater weddings, you can't refuse to cater a wedding because the customer is gay. If you sell sandwiches, you can't refuse to serve a man a sandwich because he is black.

It's that simple.

You are correct about the law. But do deny one person the option of choosing or not choosing an action while allowing the other to do whatever they wish is not fair and equal. Regardless of what the law may be.

That is something that the business owner must be willing to accept if they own a business that serves the public. If they are unwilling to serve a certain demographic, they shouldn't own a business. And they CERTAINLY shouldn't be demanding cart blanche to discriminate under the guise of "religious freedom".

And on the business owner note...I own a business. I on occasion turn customers away. Mostly when they seem like they are arrogant or rude and I choose not to do business with them. As far as I know...that is not illegal. But I feel that I and other business owners should be allowed to decide not to do business with anyone for any reason. I mean...what is next. Do we take down the "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" signs because they discriminate? I think the whole thing is ridiculous. And...why are you only worried about "religious" business owners and gay customers? Maybe we should force religious customer to have to frequent gay owned stores? I mean...isn't that just and much discrimination?

Turning a customer away because they're rude and/or arrogant or whatever is up to the business owner. But the law states you can't turn someone away because they're gay, catholic, black, furry, etc. A protected group cannot be discriminated against BECAUSE they belong to that protected group. If they're rude, sure, turn them away. That's not discrimination.

You're asking the business owners have the right to refuse anyone for ANY reason, including being the wrong color, and that's wrong.

Yes...anyone for any reason. The same and therefore equal way a customer may decide which business to use. There is no law that a customer can not refuse to use a business due to race (for example)...but it happens all the time. It should be the same for business owners. And for the record...I would never deny business to anyone based upon race, sexual orientation, etc. But to give special rights to certain groups is not fair and not equal. And that is my only point which you obviously don't have to share. But special treatment for a group is no different, in my personal opinion, that discrimination toward a group.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

And what of the black family stranded in a small texas town due to car trouble, and the town's only mechanic refusing to service their vehicle because they're black?

Is that "Fair and Equal" to leave that family stranded?

What about the gay woman living in Rural New Mexico being unable to buy milk because the one convenience store for 40 miles "Doesn't serve queers"? Is that fair?

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
But to give special rights to certain groups is not fair and not equal.

What "special rights" and what "certain groups"?

If you are white, Christian man, you belong to THREE of those groups (race, religion and gender). What groups are getting special rights?