Bobby Jindal Promises Executive Order Allowing Discrimination Against Gay People

a reply to: beezzer

Oh we're pouting again. Let me know when the government shuts down the churches and the private religious clubs, and I'll fight along side of you to stop them.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Just wanted to be clear on this so it doesn't come up in a later thread...

When I said "But legally forcing religious business owners to put a sign in their glass would be infringing on their religious liberty, wouldn't it?", I was being facetious. If business law stated that a business could discriminate as long as they post it in their glass, then the business would be legally obligated to do it, and it wouldn't infringe on their religious freedom.

Just as in some states where the business law states that businesses can't discriminate on the basis of sexual preference, those businesses are obligated to provide goods and services to gay people.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Well, it was your choice to work in a place that demanded notes from your husband to work there.

And it's the religious person's choice to open a business that serves the general public, including gay people...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
You can try to bring all the religious dogma (which again is made up recently) you want into the thread, but in a secular society, your religious rights end at the edge of your skin. You can't force your religious beliefs onto someone else. If you don't like gay people or their lifestyle and own a business, too bad. You have to serve them anyways.

1 - I hope you aren't saying 'you' as in ME. They aren't my beliefs.

2 - No, the 'religious dogma isn't recently made up'. It's been there for at least two thousand years in the Catholic church and even longer in the Leviticus rules. Fundamentalist protestant bible thumping isn't the only Christian group out there and fundamentalist protestant bible beliefs aren't the end all in christian religious beliefs.

3 - It's not a secular society. It's a secular rule of law. And that secular rule of law protects religious freedoms.

4 - Running a business based on religious beliefs is not forcing religious beliefs on others. People are free not to use those business' and to go elsewhere.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: greencmp

I just told you that I have better things to do then hunt down racist black businesses in the ghetto so I can sue them when they deny me service. To be honest, even in Baltimore it would be a needle in a haystack. I'd be more likely to get robbed or jumped for wandering into the wrong neighborhood before I get turned away from a business because I'm white.

Now you really sound like a racist.

Seriously.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
And it's the religious person's choice to open a business that serves the general public, including gay people...

And it's the religious person's choice to open a business and follow their religious practices.

a reply to: FlyersFan

no, but I lived in east texas during the regan years when there was tent cities all over the place, recently graduated from college couldn't find a job anywhere, except of course for waitress work which was what I was trying to escape from by going to college. my husband finally tipped me off as to why I wasn't finding a job....
they employers figured the men has families to take care of, the women, well they had men taking care of them, or darned well should have!! no one would hire me if there was any man, regardless of his qualifications, wanting that job!!

a southern baptist minister was once asked by a reporter just what was meant by:

A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ.

www.sbc.net...

his response was something like:
"Well if he doesn't want her to be working outside of the home then she shouldn't be working in the workforce!"

so well I don't think my what if is that far out in the looney bin!

originally posted by: FlyersFan
1 - I hope you aren't saying 'you' as in ME. They aren't my beliefs.

You is all inclusive.

2 - No, the 'religious dogma isn't recently made up'. It's been there for at least two thousand years in the Catholic church and even longer in the Leviticus rules. Fundamentalist protestant bible thumping isn't the only Christian group out there and fundamentalist protestant bible beliefs aren't the end all in christian religious beliefs.

I told you that I'm familiar with what the bible says on homosexuality. There is nothing in the book about Christians having to be intolerant to them though.

3 - It's not a secular society. It's a secular rule of law. And that secular rule of law protects religious freedoms.

Which it does do. I already explained that the religious still have the right to be intolerant of gays and not approve of gay weddings. Just like the KKK is allowed to continue to hate on black people. They just can't extend that intolerance to the point it is actually holding those groups back socially and economically.

4 - Running a business based on religious beliefs is not forcing religious beliefs on others. People are free not to use those business' and to go elsewhere.

There was no such thing as a "running a business based on religious beliefs" before the Hobby Lobby ruling.

originally posted by: dawnstar
no, but ...

So you said you did ...but you really didn't.

his response was something like:
"Well if he doesn't want her to be working outside of the home then she shouldn't be working in the workforce!"

That's the attitude some Southern Baptists have.

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: greencmp

I just told you that I have better things to do then hunt down racist black businesses in the ghetto so I can sue them when they deny me service. To be honest, even in Baltimore it would be a needle in a haystack. I'd be more likely to get robbed or jumped for wandering into the wrong neighborhood before I get turned away from a business because I'm white.

Now you really sound like a racist.

Seriously.

Why because I speak the truth about the city I live in? That I admit that black people can be racist and WILL attack white people for wondering into the wrong parts of town? That I doubt that I will find a black business that will refuse me service? What exactly is racist about what I just said?

originally posted by: FlyersFan
And it's the religious person's choice to open a business and follow their religious practices.

Yes, as long as they don't discriminate.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: greencmp

I just told you that I have better things to do then hunt down racist black businesses in the ghetto so I can sue them when they deny me service. To be honest, even in Baltimore it would be a needle in a haystack. I'd be more likely to get robbed or jumped for wandering into the wrong neighborhood before I get turned away from a business because I'm white.

Now you really sound like a racist.

Seriously.

Why because I speak the truth about the city I live in? That I admit that black people can be racist and WILL attack white people for wondering into the wrong parts of town? That I doubt that I will find a black business that will refuse me service? What exactly is racist about what I just said?

I'd be more likely to get robbed or jumped for wandering into the wrong neighborhood before I get turned away from a business because I'm white.

Your earlier comments also indicate to me that you believe that people are, in fact, not equal and here you imply that some can be presumed to be predisposed to criminal behavior.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: beezzer

Oh we're pouting again. Let me know when the government shuts down the churches and the private religious clubs, and I'll fight along side of you to stop them.

No, no you won't.

And it's not pouting.

Just a resignation that freedoms will be lost. Now they won't be cool freedoms or popular freedoms, but they were freedoms all the same.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I told you that I'm familiar with what the bible says on homosexuality. There is nothing in the book about Christians having to be intolerant to them though.

That's YOUR interpretation of the bible. Most Christian churches do not have that interpretation and most have other books besides the bible that they use as rule of law. Again - Catholic Catechism . 1 Billion Christians follow this law book. It's not new. Leviticus isn't new either.

Jesus never said anything about homosexuality either way. But that doesn't matter. What the churches teach is what matters. The Catholics have taught for 2,000 years that homosexuality, and even the participation or the encouragement or approval of it, is a sin. I disagree with that teaching, but that's irrelevant. It's part of the Catholic religion which is 1/2 of the Christians on the planet. That's what they are supposed to follow.

a reply to: FlyersFan
show me where I said I did???

yes it's the attitude of at least some and I posted part of their statement of convictions to show you where it comes from, and you seem to be saying that they should have the right to deny women employment based on their belief or well prove that their husbands approve by demanding notes...

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: greencmp

I just told you that I have better things to do then hunt down racist black businesses in the ghetto so I can sue them when they deny me service. To be honest, even in Baltimore it would be a needle in a haystack. I'd be more likely to get robbed or jumped for wandering into the wrong neighborhood before I get turned away from a business because I'm white.

Now you really sound like a racist.

Seriously.

Why because I speak the truth about the city I live in? That I admit that black people can be racist and WILL attack white people for wondering into the wrong parts of town? That I doubt that I will find a black business that will refuse me service? What exactly is racist about what I just said?

I'd be more likely to get robbed or jumped for wandering into the wrong neighborhood before I get turned away from a business because I'm white.

Your earlier comments also indicate to me that you believe that people are, in fact, not equal and here you imply that some can be presumed to be predisposed to criminal behavior.

Yes, some people ARE predisposed to criminal behavior, but that isn't a racial thing. People of all types are predisposed to criminal behavior. Some of them are racist, and some of them live in the ghetto and are black. It's just a statement of fact. Nothing racist about it.

And again not all people ARE equal, that's why we are having these Civil Rights conversations.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: FlyersFan
show me where I said I did???

HERE

You said that women worked where they needed a note from their husband. I said show me a person with half a brain willing to work in such a place. You said ... I DID!

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: beezzer

Oh we're pouting again. Let me know when the government shuts down the churches and the private religious clubs, and I'll fight along side of you to stop them.

No, no you won't.

And it's not pouting.

Yes, yes I will.

And yes, it is.

I have close friends who also happen to be gay, so discrimination against gays gets a little personal for me.

I also have close friends and relatives that I love very much who happen to be devoutly religious, so if I saw the government shutting down their churches and private religious organizations, that fight would get personal for me as well.

But if my gay friends tried to discriminate unfairly, I'd call them on it. Same thing with my religious friends and relatives.

Isn't Christianity on the decline in the USA? It's certainly declining in the UK and Northern Europe. I'm sure it'll end up going the way of the Greek and Roman gods that no one believes in anymore. It's nothing to fear the world will keep spinning even if you still believe it's flat.

a reply to: kaylaluv

The reason why I don't believe so many of you is that you don't hesitate to impose, restrict, deny religious freedoms. Not once have I ever seen any of you supporting religious expression.

Now you may in your life and on another site, but here (as it is the only thing I can go on) you don't.

Hell, there are those of you that openly mock and despise religion!

So color me skeptical that most of you could give a damn about religious freedoms of expression.

It's not "trendy" or "hip" or "cool" or whatever the kids are calling it these days to support religious freedoms of expression.