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What Libertarianism is Not • C. Jay Engel

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posted on May, 20 2015 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: greencmp

Excellent post, Greencamp!!!

I cannot add anything -- you've said it all very well! But it reminded me of a book called "Power vs. Force," that kind of expounds on the non-aggression principle from a non-partisan perspective. It's been years since I've read it, but what I took away from it is that "power" is what one can do for one's self, including defense of one's person/life/property, as opposed to "force," which is aggression and coercion against another. I don't recall the author speaking in terms of natural rights, but to me it was a perfect analogy of what is our right to do and what is a violation of others rights. And, therefore, the Libertarian NAP. (It also talks about more esoteric concepts like dowsing and calibration, but that wasn't what stuck with me.)

It further explained that if/when one uses force on others -- no matter how well intentioned -- it will backfire in the end. We must do the right thing for the right reason for the right results. Doing the right thing for the wrong reason or doing the wrong thing for the right reason will always -- ALWAYS! -- will give us the wrong results.

And I see the truth of that every day being played out.




posted on May, 20 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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Power vs force.....EXCELLENT reference!
reply to: Boadicea



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: greencmp

Excellent post, Greencamp!!!

I cannot add anything -- you've said it all very well! But it reminded me of a book called "Power vs. Force," that kind of expounds on the non-aggression principle from a non-partisan perspective. It's been years since I've read it, but what I took away from it is that "power" is what one can do for one's self, including defense of one's person/life/property, as opposed to "force," which is aggression and coercion against another. I don't recall the author speaking in terms of natural rights, but to me it was a perfect analogy of what is our right to do and what is a violation of others rights. And, therefore, the Libertarian NAP. (It also talks about more esoteric concepts like dowsing and calibration, but that wasn't what stuck with me.)

It further explained that if/when one uses force on others -- no matter how well intentioned -- it will backfire in the end. We must do the right thing for the right reason for the right results. Doing the right thing for the wrong reason or doing the wrong thing for the right reason will always -- ALWAYS! -- will give us the wrong results.

And I see the truth of that every day being played out.


Sounds interesting, I will check it out.

Thanks for the title!




posted on May, 20 2015 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: greencmp

Live and let live.

Libertarianism is about respecting people's right to their own free will. We respect that different people have different values. All other political classes believe that other people's values must take a back seat into irrelevance if they are not in the mainstream. Opponents of libertarianism often value economic equality, tradition, and uniformity, more than they value freedom. They force those values upon the entire population. Progressives, liberals, Democrats, Republicans, etc all are interested in forcing their values regardless of individual preferences.

Libertarianism is about equal rights. I don't give other classes of people more rights, like for example I would not give the IRS the right to take property without permission when nobody else has that right. Other political classes have no problem creating a classed society where the ruling class rules down upon the people from above. There is one set of rules for the government people, and another set of rule for everyone else. That is not equal rights! If you don't have a libertarian world, you don't have a world with equal rights.

Libertarianism is about a real and strong social contract. Libertarians seem to recognize that the social contract is in total shambles. I didn't sign a contract with the United States saying "I will pay you 18% of my money and in exchange you must give me food stamps when I lose my income source, and protect and serve me with the Army, Navy, and Air Force". Signed wayforward and signed Barack Obama. A legitimate government must be upon the consent of the governed. The US supreme court has ruled repeatedly that no duties are owed to any US citizen. So, there is no valid US given that there is no US agreement with its current subjects. In a libertarian world, citizens have actually consented to their interactions and any government organizations that they deal with.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: BlueJacket
Correction

I dont give a rats bum if you hurt yourself.


a reply to: Gothmog



I missed that too the first time.

I have no right to prevent anyone from hurting themselves.



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