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Florida college sued over forced vaginal exams

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posted on May, 19 2015 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: stormcell
The idea for this type of coursework in medical school is for the physicians and technicians to know how the patients feel when they are only wearing a medical gown and sitting on a examination table.


Unless they lived in a cave and only moved out to attend medical school, I'm gonna say, they've had an exam before?


They've also likely had sex before...does having sex once mean you consent to all sex, at any point in the future, with anyone? Simply because it's been done before?




posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:00 PM
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originally posted by: Ameilia

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: stormcell
The idea for this type of coursework in medical school is for the physicians and technicians to know how the patients feel when they are only wearing a medical gown and sitting on a examination table.


Unless they lived in a cave and only moved out to attend medical school, I'm gonna say, they've had an exam before?


They've also likely had sex before...does having sex once mean you consent to all sex, at any point in the future, with anyone? Simply because it's been done before?


Hi Amelia, your point is spot on. I'm afraid you misunderstood what I was saying to the other member who said this:



The idea for this type of coursework in medical school is for the physicians and technicians to know how the patients feel when they are only wearing a medical gown and sitting on a examination table.


I was just making the point that these girls had already been a patient on a table wearing nothing but a gown, so they did not need to gain that experience. I absolutely am against what happened! (Read my prior posts...)

We cool?

edit on 5/19/2015 by new_here because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: new_here

Oh. I'm sorry, I did totally misunderstand. Thank you for clearing that up.

*Said with sincerity*



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:26 PM
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originally posted by: Ameilia
a reply to: new_here

Oh. I'm sorry, I did totally misunderstand. Thank you for clearing that up.

*Said with sincerity*


Not a problem.
I knew we were on the same page.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:45 PM
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My daughter went to medical school and they went into patient rooms, with the patients approval with a training physician actually in practice where they observed and learned in that way. Not any type of putting a classmate under pressure to have to do this and letting your fellow classmates probe your most private personal area. And the sexual stimulation is completely disturbing. How would a female feel having guys in class doing that to her. Knowing college students, this is a setup for a lot of problems. I would imagine the females were quite embarrassed to have to continue to go through their classes with male students that have done this to them! It is disgusting.

The college and professor needs sued. I hope they win big and force the school to put a stop to this practice. I am sure they didn't sign up to have their classmates probing their vagina and sexually stimulating them. And what is with the comment, "Your sexy and should be an escort?" I hope they will millions each and don't have a life of trauma having that done in a class.

Anyway, I tried to cover most of the replies here in the above statement. I imagine the school and professor will rue the day they decided this was a good idea.




posted on May, 19 2015 @ 11:04 PM
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originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: spirit_horse

This.Is.Insane:


In some cases, the student would have to sexually 'stimulate' plaintiffs in order to facilitate inserting the probe into plaintiffs' vaginas," the lawsuit alleges.
(From the Link)


AAAAAnd, I think it just became clear it's a little more than just being the uke for the transvag class. Me thinks the prof is a bit odd. I bet you don't get a lot of this from the ultrasound tech at the hospital. "Oh, Mrs Green, we have to sexually stimulate you before we can insert the transvag probe...please hold very still!"



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: spirit_horse

So... no young men took the course, or had their grades docked for not submitting to a vaginal exam, I guess?


No they probably got probed in the mother ship.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 11:56 PM
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originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: spirit_horse

This.Is.Insane:


In some cases, the student would have to sexually 'stimulate' plaintiffs in order to facilitate inserting the probe into plaintiffs' vaginas," the lawsuit alleges.
(From the Link)


AAAAAnd, I think it just became clear it's a little more than just being the uke for the transvag class. Me thinks the prof is a bit odd. I bet you don't get a lot of this from the ultrasound tech at the hospital. "Oh, Mrs Green, we have to sexually stimulate you before we can insert the transvag probe...please hold very still!"


Exactly. You can bet any medical professional ever pulled that on me, he'd have to call somebody to peel him off the wall...



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 12:27 AM
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Well this thread has definitly brought a smile to my ever cynical face, makes me think back to the days of medicine when they would lay the body out on the bench in front of the lecture class then just go to town on it, hold up an organ then throw it into the bowl.
now if you do a first aid course and you get asked to put a sling or a bandage on someone, well hey you kind of expected that to happen right, after all it's a first aid course.
If you sign up for a 6 year degree in medicine and not expect things to be a little on the confronting side then clearly you chose the wrong career path, to be able to approach this course without some kind of maturity and pre course research then after being given the old "find a partner people it's prac time" line from your tutor you turn into the post prom ice queen well maybe veterinary school is for you.
after all we could train them all like this:

but just how safe would you feel being evaced out:
"sir if it hurts i want you to make a loud honk sound....."
edit on 20-5-2015 by PLAYERONE01 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: PLAYERONE01
If the doctors don't learn how to perform the procedures on real people, they will be inadequately trained. I don't see why this shouldn't be a nationally accepted practice as the College stated in the OP article:


the college issued the following statement:

"The use of volunteers -- including fellow students -- for medical sonography training is a nationally accepted practice.
So, what's the problem? There are several that the court will have to rule on.

Is it voluntary or isn't it? To me their claim would be more believable if they had refused to participate (as they were told it was voluntary), and then suffered some consequences as a result. They didn't do that. They admit they were told it was voluntary but they felt pressured...ok well that may be true but it's a weaker argument than refusing to participate as they admit they were told they had the right to do.

The part about being blacklisted by future employers is especially interesting...they think refusal to participate in the voluntary exams will have an adverse effect on their careers, but filing this lawsuit won't? Not a very realistic assessment, in my opinion.

Also it sounds like one of the other students made some inappropriate comments. OK that much sounds like a valid complaint, but, the student who gave me my college orientation made too many inappropriate comments to count, though I never interpreted any of those as being official university policy. So I believe what they say happened did, but in my case the school wasn't responsible and I'm not sure the school is responsible in their case either.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in court.



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 04:07 PM
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I honesly don't see the issue with medical students participating as prop. If your embarking a field in medicine, nudity should be no hindrance, no? It sounds pretty hypocritical that doctors in waiting assume validation to diddle other humans without such surrender themselves. I think it should be obligatory. If you get to manhandle our dead, young, and comely, then you need to pay your pound of flesh in return. Pun untended.

Which leads to the next point. As objective, starchy, or clinical as medical professionals portray themselves, they are VERY human, and accordingly, susceptible to all of the parodies of the human condition. I can promise you, being well acquainted with patrons to the cloth, their sexual urges, tendencies, and deviations are as visceral as the next red-blooded robin with a pulse. I know with palpable certainty, when that symmetrically blessed lottery winner is administered into the ER, a "silent bell" queues. This typically prompts all available constellation of ward to converge on the naive and unsuspecting cavia porcellus, who's ill-fated for sophmoric, salacious and lascivious lechery laud behest the chamber.

The witless wary is seduced from robe, with anecdotal compulsory policy and protocol pandering, in view of peer, for post lampooning, mockery, and masturbatory nightcap. Translation=Doctors get their jollies too.
edit on 20-5-2015 by trifecta because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-5-2015 by trifecta because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-5-2015 by trifecta because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: spirit_horse

Wow, just wow.

In film school, I had a professor that said to me and another girl that he wanted us to perform a lesbian scene for the class. To which I responded "that will never happen" and we walked out. We went right then to the administration and eventually he was fired for sexual harassment. We also demanded that until another professor comes to the class to monitor it, we would not go back. They did put another professor in there while they were doing the investigation.

Some professors think they can get by with that, the girls should have walked out of class before it happened and reported it right then.

Someone needs to be teaching our young women to have more guts to stand up to authority like young men can. If I were in that class, as a female, I would have walked out and took them with me.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: trifecta

The problem would be in the WAY they would have been asked, and why ask them? Unless it stated in their class syllabus that it would be done, and they said no, then it would still be no.

It sounds as if they were coerced, which is in essence rape. If they felt they had no other choice, in a class of males who aren't really mature yet, then it is sexual harassment and could be construed as rape.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 11:00 PM
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a reply to: spirit_horse

I am a RN and have heard of this practice for the Nurse Practitioner course. You have to get over alot of social normal things as a nurse. People outside of the medical field should not be the judge of this suit. Let doctors who I'm sure proformed weird proceedures on each other in med school, decide this case. These women new they couldn't opt out but they took the class anyway, thinking they would get out of it.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 11:14 PM
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originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: spirit_horse

This.Is.Insane:


In some cases, the student would have to sexually 'stimulate' plaintiffs in order to facilitate inserting the probe into plaintiffs' vaginas," the lawsuit alleges.
(From the Link)


AAAAAnd, I think it just became clear it's a little more than just being the uke for the transvag class. Me thinks the prof is a bit odd. I bet you don't get a lot of this from the ultrasound tech at the hospital. "Oh, Mrs Green, we have to sexually stimulate you before we can insert the transvag probe...please hold very still!"


Exactly. You can bet any medical professional ever pulled that on me, he'd have to call somebody to peel him off the wall...


As a female.....you know some of those exams......

Anyway, one time after 15 minutes I had to tell the tech to stop.

But if the girl said no, then she said no and it is rape, no matter how they make it sound. Sexual stimulation is never part of any vaginal exam, ever. Even though it occasionally happens, once you say no, that's it.

Yes, I've had the probe exam, but it was in a clinical setting, only the tech and I and the tech never told me that first they had to sexually stimulate me. I don't think guys really understand just how women sometimes have to psychologically overcome modesty to even have a necessary examination.

And you bet that I would not have wanted a gang of medical students watching.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 11:18 PM
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originally posted by: zbeliever
a reply to: spirit_horse

I am a RN and have heard of this practice for the Nurse Practitioner course. You have to get over alot of social normal things as a nurse. People outside of the medical field should not be the judge of this suit. Let doctors who I'm sure proformed weird proceedures on each other in med school, decide this case. These women new they couldn't opt out but they took the class anyway, thinking they would get out of it.


Was it in the class syllabus that if there were female students, they would have to do this?

What kind of class syllabus would say "This semester, female students are hereby asked to be the subjects of this particular examination."

Does that sound like a reasonable syllabus?



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:50 AM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

I was told by one of my instructors who had her Practitoners degree, she was made to give and receive a pap test on the first day of her program. Yes, it was a surpise, but the class introduction stated they would be each others models. My instructor felt it was a way to weed out the weak. Listen you'r paired up with a partner and a instuctors comes around while you give each other a pap test .....big deal! Yes, jokes are told during those kinda times to break tension. If you ask me those gtrls would have never made it.



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 02:50 AM
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edit on 22-5-2015 by zbeliever because: Repeat



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 07:00 AM
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originally posted by: zbeliever
a reply to: WarminIndy

I was told by one of my instructors who had her Practitoners degree, she was made to give and receive a pap test on the first day of her program. Yes, it was a surpise, but the class introduction stated they would be each others models. My instructor felt it was a way to weed out the weak. Listen you'r paired up with a partner and a instuctors comes around while you give each other a pap test .....big deal! Yes, jokes are told during those kinda times to break tension. If you ask me those gtrls would have never made it.


Maybe, but in my mind a classroom isn't a clinical setting.

Surgeons aren't asked to operate on each other in class. Do men have the prostate exam in class?



posted on May, 22 2015 @ 07:43 AM
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There is value I think in both practicing the procedures and in having them done on yourself so you know what you're about to inflict on someone else, within reason, and yes, I think men should have the prostate one done and do it to each other.

This ties in with what I said on another thread about everything coming back to sex. This is where that becomes a problem for society. This is a setting where sex should not ever be. Prostate exams, transvaginal probes, and yearly paps are NOT sexual procedures, and yet when we see them protested, that's how they are described -- unwanted sexual contact.

I do fail to see where the sexual stimulation comes in. That would be right out as far as I would be concerned. If someone is saying you need it, then I would be asking where the school's KY budget went. Every exam I've ever had has used a ton of lube for those things, not sexual stimulation.



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