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Boy shoots through window, kills friend trying to wake him

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posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:00 AM
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a reply to: PhoenixOD

This is a sad case of negligence on both the child's and the parents' parts.

But, the fact that you use such a tragic thing to get on a soapbox about castle doctrine is really pathetic.

The realities of life are that you never hear about the 15-year-olds who also have access to loaded firearms in their room who never do this in the same situation--most likely because they were instructed better about the use of firearms. I know a few young teenagers that I would trust with a firearm more than some adults any day of the week. It's not (at the age of 15) about the age, but the training and guidance. Those seem to be lacking in this case, but it's not the fault of castle-doctrine laws or the 2nd Amendment.

Let's place the blame where is appropriate, but let's do that after acknowledging the sadness of the event--there are parents now without their child, and another child who will have to live the rest of his life with the guilt of having shot and killed his friend.




posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:01 AM
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originally posted by: PhoenixOD

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Something no one has taken into consideration yet, is that this is Montana. There is a deep seeded gun culture there so i'm not sure i can claim surprise that a 15 yo has his own fire arm.


Then wouldnt the boy have known some basic rules of not firing at unidentified threats?


You're assuming he was never taught this and has never heard this rule before. But children do not always follow the rules. Especially when they are scared for their lives. I have already said he is in the wrong. I am not defending him. They cannot be expected to make the right decision and follow protcol, which is why it is illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to own a pistol. I am fine with that rule. But i am also fine with kids defending their homes with lethal weapons. As long as they follow proper protocol. The kid should have identified his target. The blame lands on him and his parents.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: matafuchs



It was not an accident that he shot but it was an accident that he killed a friend. Let's get it right here folks. There should be no blame and NONE of you or I know the whole story.


If you dont know the full story then you cant claim there should be no blame.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: Nyiah

Ok lets speculate here, maybe the parents were away. Maybe, the guns were all locked in a safe that the parents locked. They leave the home not knowing the fifteen year old knows which key opens the safe and decides to protect himself during their absence. Boy is startled out of sleep and perceives a threat, one shot is fired prior to full consciousness of being awake.
I don't know about some but I have done some pretty weird things after being woken up in heavy sleep. Things like having conversations that I have no recollection of, or gone to put funny toiletries on my tooth brush that weren't toothpaste.
Can we just take the moment to say god speed to this poor soul that will not get to live the best years of his life.

cheers, nuts



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

No im not assuming anything. Im wondering if a boy of 15 ish with a loaded gun in his room in a place where there is deep seated gun culture would know a few basic rules of gun ownership or not. I guessing growing up in that kind of culture he would have known these basic rules.

Maybe the parents had taught him not to fire at unidentified threats and he did anyway.


edit on 19-5-2015 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: PhoenixOD

there's more to play here than your 20/20 hindsight of the situation. It was an accident. 15 year olds don't shoot friends in the head on purpose. There was also some negligence. He was awaken by a sound and who knows what he thought. It happened, a 15 year old died and this is sad. Hardly the time to play morale police and try to infect others with your guilt-ridden opinion of guns.

Nothing is an accident anymore. I need to bend my everyday rules and regulations because of a tragic incident like this. Please, take my freedoms



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Woodcarver

No im not assuming anything. Im wondering if a boy of 15 ish with a loaded gun in his room in a place where there is deep seated gun culture would know a few basic rules of gun ownership or not. I guessing growing up in that kind of culture he would have known these basic rules.

Maybe the parents had taught him not to fire at unidentified threats and he did anyway.

I think this is likely. He just did not follow protocol which makes this negligence. Besides the fact that he is not allowed to own a gun. (If it is even his and not his parents).

There is the off chance that he did identify the person and meant to kill him. He had the high ground and got a headshot. Headshots are a sign of an accomplished marksman.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:15 AM
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originally posted by: Dr1Akula

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: bobbypurify
a reply to: PhoenixOD

Accidents do happen. Sounds to be one. I doubt he meant to shoot his friend in the head.

"Home defense at its finest"

What's this supposed to mean? Some snide remark at citizenry being able to keep guns at the home?

Why can't accidents happen and everyone just leave it at that? Why does it incite everyone's opinion and blame? People die, we can't cure that. Accidents happen too.

Wake me up when guns start going off by themselves and killing people.


So I guess you fully agree with handing 15 year olds loaded weapons to keep in their rooms? As long as nobody tries to take your guns right??



Yes, why not?

Do you cut you 15 year olds steak for them?

You mean you would hand a 15 year old a knife that could kill someone???

Oh my god, are you crazy!!!?

Sarcasm off.


I guess having to deal with a driven-crazy 15 year old with a knife is much easier than a firearm pistol with 19rounds

and in this case a knife wouldn't have shot dead his friend from that distance!

Your logic and the people who share it, are the instigates that allow gun ''accidents'' to happen.


Yes of course, this is my fault now.....


We get you are scared of inanimate objects.

I'm sure this phobia is treatable, most phobias are.

Stop jump to conclusions and rushing to assign blame.

Anti gunners always do this as soon as the words guns and accident are placed together.

You refuse to reserve judgement until you have the facts.

Instead the only facts you care about are"gun".

This makes you an automatic expert witness, and demand we allow you ta pass judgement immediately.

Its pretty idiotic honestly.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: johnwick

Just because he didn't know WHOM he was shooting, doesn't make it an accident. He shot ON PURPOSE.

I do feel awful for the kid, his parents and the family of the kid who was killed. Tragic, but not an accident.


You don't know that, you do not know if the kid has a history of sleep walking.

You do not know if the kid was on ambient or some other sleep aid.

You do not know the kids state of mind, period.

Unless you are all knowing and not sharing.

Plenty of folks get up and are still asleep, this is a known fact, it takes minutes sometimes for all your faculties to return to you when awakened.

Hell I have had conversations, made phone calls, cooked an egg once even while sleep walking on sleep aids.

This stuff happens quite a lot actually.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:25 AM
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originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: johnwick
Well of course I was not there, and of course he did not mean to shoot his " friend"..I will go out on a limb and say he meant to shoot what was on the other side of the window..not a stretch as it is what has been described. Who ever taught you all to shoot at an unidentified targets.
Very tragic for 2 families.



Nobody would rationally or ever should teach that.

I would never shoot at an unidentified target.

That is batshot crazy.

Why would you assume that this is taught?

This is what lack of training causes, not what training teaches.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:25 AM
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Besides the fact that he is not allowed to own a gun.


From what I find, the age starts at 14 years.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:30 AM
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originally posted by: PhoenixOD

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Something no one has taken into consideration yet, is that this is Montana. There is a deep seeded gun culture there so i'm not sure i can claim surprise that a 15 yo has his own fire arm.


Then wouldnt the boy have known some basic rules of not firing at unidentified threats?


I would think so.

Growing up in the country myself, rural parents teach their children about guns and gun safety from a very young age.

I knew how to fire a gun since I was very young.

I shot and killed several coons before my 7th birthday.

With the same .22 rifle I got for my 7th birthday.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: bobbypurify

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: bobbypurify
a reply to: PhoenixOD

Accidents do happen. Sounds to be one. I doubt he meant to shoot his friend in the head.

"Home defense at its finest"

What's this supposed to mean? Some snide remark at citizenry being able to keep guns at the home?

Why can't accidents happen and everyone just leave it at that? Why does it incite everyone's opinion and blame? People die, we can't cure that. Accidents happen too.

Wake me up when guns start going off by themselves and killing people.


I generally agree with your points, however, a 15 year old with a firearm that shoots through a window at a noise isn't an accident, it's a "negligent."

Negligent on the part of the parents that obviously didn't teach him correctly and permitted access to a firearm without said proper teaching.

Negligent on the part of the boy who shot at an unknown target just because he heard a noise. I knew better at 15 and I knew the proper rules of gun handling.



Sure, it's negligent. I can agree with that. But, that's part of our lives. It's sad but I framed it as an accident meaning he didn't have intentions of killing his friend. I probably should have worded it differently.

I just don't like how now everyone's a judge of these parents, firearms and all the sudden an expert on where or what should have taken place. I guess this is commonplace nowadays.


At 15, I knew and followed the 4 rules. I post them here and highlight the one he violated.

Treat every firearm as if it's loaded. ...
Never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy. ...
Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it. ...
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire.

I don't have a problem, necessarily, with a 15 year old having a gun in his room if he is responsible and well trained. Heck, I had one in my room when I was that age--an M1 Carbine, .30 caliber, that I bought with my summer job money.

However, he obviously shot without knowing who or what he was shooting at and therein lies the problem.


M1, nice!!!

That is a damned good gun!!


I gotta agree, those are the same 4 rules my father taught me.

They are kinda the golden rules of handling firearms, I don't even think it needs saying, but those same things are what is taught in every firearms course I have ever heard of.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: the owlbear

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Something no one has pointed out yet, is that this is Montana. There is a deep seeded gun culture there so i'm not sure i can claim surprise that a 15 yo has his own fire arm.



reply to: Woodcarver



Excellent point. It's Montana.
Not exactly an urban hive of scum and villiany.

Why would someone be so afraid and paranoid for their life as to shoot someone from a second story window? Wouldnt the first response be to call 911 or wake others in the house (if home), while grabbing a gun?
And why aim for the head? A perfectly good shot in the air to scare someone in the dark that you are armed should suffice for most ne'er do wells in Montana unless you have a beef with the nefarious sort who REALLY mean you harm and I doubt that type would be throwing pebbles at your window to wake you up.



Because just as Joe biden learned.

That shoot in the air bs is dumb.

What goes up comes down.

Besides shoot a hole in the roof of his house?

Didn't think that out well did you?



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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Tragic incident indeed. Youthful imprudence is what brought the deceased to sneak around his friend's house like a criminal. Youthful trepidation, and certainly recklessness, led the other to make a terrible mistake. Maybe bad parenting is to blame, or maybe two sets of parents have suffered a horrible, blameless loss of life and innocence.

Insensitive, yes, but it occurs to me that 'fear for his life' would be an adequate legal defense for the shooter in this situation...if he were a law-enforcement officer. Does it not seem backward that such a defense works for a trained professional, but not for a panicked citizen? Shouldn't we ALL be expected to have restraint when wielding a firearm? Not trying to derail...



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: PhoenixOD

You are convicting without all of the evidence. Something that occurs alot in this day and age. I was stating that there are to many if's and in re reading what I printed I realize I said there should be no blame 'and' and it should have been no blame 'as'. Sorry it was a simple typo.

Blame the guns...blame the parents for giving him a gun...blame the parents of the kid who was out late. It is as tragedy and happens quite often and why not? Have you seen the state of the nation and how many home invasions there are? They are not delegated to just the inner city or urban areas.

Again, we do not know the specifics of the incident.

Lastly, you never pull a gun unless you are willing to shoot and intending to use it. That is what a person with a gun is taught. It is not a toy. It is for protection. If I hear a noise in the house and think there is a threat I check to make sure all of those who are in the house are safe (kids if you have them) to make sure you do not shoot your teenager sneaking out/in.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: the owlbear

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Something no one has pointed out yet, is that this is Montana. There is a deep seeded gun culture there so i'm not sure i can claim surprise that a 15 yo has his own fire arm.



reply to: Woodcarver



Excellent point. It's Montana.
Not exactly an urban hive of scum and villiany.

Why would someone be so afraid and paranoid for their life as to shoot someone from a second story window? Wouldnt the first response be to call 911 or wake others in the house (if home), while grabbing a gun?
And why aim for the head? A perfectly good shot in the air to scare someone in the dark that you are armed should suffice for most ne'er do wells in Montana unless you have a beef with the nefarious sort who REALLY mean you harm and I doubt that type would be throwing pebbles at your window to wake you up.



Because just as Joe biden learned.

That shoot in the air bs is dumb.

What goes up comes down.

Besides shoot a hole in the roof of his house?

Didn't think that out well did you?


Actually, I wouldnt have fired at all. No one can hurt me on the second floor of my house. I would call 911 and secure myself until help arrived Rather than jangle my spurs.

Breaking the window would have sufficed. And unless a neighboring house is pressed right up against the other, you can shoot in the air out of a window.

And yes, what goes up must come down. A falling bullet MIGHT leave a bruise if the conditions are perfect.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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Here is a question, and one I would like to know before trying to figure out this mess:

What was a 15 yo child doing out in the middle of the night? And why was he trying to wake his friend and what were they going to do in the middle of the night?

Most normal persons would go, and either call or knock on the door, not throw pebbles at the window and wake up people. If it was that late at night, then why?

Beyond that, the other questions would be, not why did the other child have a gun. Was it loaded or did he have to load it? Was there a crime wave in that area, where homes were being broken into in the middle of the night?

Before jumping on the band wagon and claiming guns are bad, perhaps more details would be in order first.

This would not be the first time a person was shot in the middle of the night, nor will it be the last.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 11:17 AM
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a reply to: matafuchs
no probs

edit on 19-5-2015 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 11:21 AM
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Most normal persons would go, and either call or knock on the door, not throw pebbles at the window and wake up people.


It's kids, probably the old 'don't want the parents to know'.




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