How Does One "Make Themselves" Believe?

a reply to: WarminIndy

Look up psychopomp in Wikipedia. If you do a google search you'll find all kinds of BS. You'll even find that those webpages would call me a great bane upon the world, creating vampire ghosts and such things.

The reason so many people felt completely free about dying in front of me, and even in my arms, was because I wasn't trying to drag their souls to the underworld, or to judgment, or to some paradise of my own imagination. And guess what? No evidence that I made any vampire ghosts.

Call me an anti-psychopomp if you wish.

a reply to: Thought Provoker



I had a whole post ready to go, but when I went to look for this image, it disappeared.

So. I'll save everyone's eyes and so forth:
THIS PICTURE is how I see what you are saying.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Thought Provoker

I had a whole post ready to go, but when I went to look for this image, it disappeared.

So. I'll save everyone's eyes and so forth:
THIS PICTURE is how I see what you are saying.

if the big bad wolf had been slightly more clever, he would pretended to be a mormon. i would have said jew but they dont eat pork.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

But I'm trying to tell you, that last part of it is wrong, even though I know that is actually how atheists think. "From what?" would've been answered by him with, "From death." He's knocking to keep you from falling off that cliff, to keep you from walking out in front of that bus, to keep you from doing your eternal self in thanks to not having all the facts about the true nature of spiritual reality. It's as simple as that. Tell me; what makes you believe that picture, or want to believe it? I'll tell you what makes me not believe it, if you'll accept God and Christ as reality for the sake of argument. Jesus is all-powerful. He can do anything he wants to anyone he wants any time he wants. Why would he ask to be let in if what he wants to do is harm you? He'd just barge on in and start smiting if he was evil. "...if you don't let me in?" How could you stop him if he wanted in and didn't give a damn about your free will? You couldn't. Therefore, he does care about your free will. Therefore, it is up to you and your choices. All he's going to do is wait for you to answer until there's no more time left for anyone to wait in, and then...

a reply to: Thought Provoker

Who has Jesus ever saved from death?

a reply to: windword

Peter and Lazarus come to mind

a reply to: windword

According to one story he saved all his disciples, at least all his followers in the garden.

John 18:7 Therefore He again asked them, "Whom do you seek?" And they said, "Jesus the Nazarene." 8Jesus answered, "I told you that I am He; so if you seek Me, let these go their way," 9to fulfill the word which He spoke, "Of those whom You have given Me I lost not one."…

Notice that it was to fulfill his own word, from a prayer, not to fulfill scripture. That's interesting.

originally posted by: windword
Who has Jesus ever saved from death?

I assume s/he is meaning that Jesus saves people from spiritual death in that he grants them eternal life.

a reply to: Akragon

Peter and Lazarus come to mind

Are Peter and Lazarus alive?

a reply to: pthena

According to one story he saved all his disciples, at least all his followers in the garden.

Are they still alive?

a reply to: bb23108

I assume s/he is meaning that Jesus saves people from spiritual death in that he grants them eternal life.

When confronted with the question of what we need to be saved from, Thought Provoker said:

"From what?" would've been answered by him with, "From death." He's knocking to keep you from falling off that cliff, to keep you from walking out in front of that bus, to keep you from doing your eternal self in thanks to not having all the facts about the true nature of spiritual reality.

Where is the evidence that Jesus has bestowed eternal life on anyone?

Back to the the theme of the thread, Thought Provoker said nothing thought provoking, but simply stated the same old tired Christian rhetoric.

How can I force myself believe that someone who might have lived and died 2000 years ago, is knocking on the door of my heart, waiting to be invited in so that he can save me from my own death, when I KNOW that death is something that everyone will experience, guaranteed?

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: WarminIndy

Look up psychopomp in Wikipedia. If you do a google search you'll find all kinds of BS. You'll even find that those webpages would call me a great bane upon the world, creating vampire ghosts and such things.

The reason so many people felt completely free about dying in front of me, and even in my arms, was because I wasn't trying to drag their souls to the underworld, or to judgment, or to some paradise of my own imagination. And guess what? No evidence that I made any vampire ghosts.

Call me an anti-psychopomp if you wish.

Vampire ghosts.....never heard of one, never met one.

Dying people, yes, seen that, been there.

originally posted by: bb23108

originally posted by: windword
Who has Jesus ever saved from death?

I assume s/he is meaning that Jesus saves people from spiritual death in that he grants them eternal life.

Me.

Physical and spiritual.

a reply to: windword

Enoch
Elijah

a reply to: WarminIndy

Do they exist? Where are they? Are they alive? .....Walking around and preaching about the eternal life that Jesus gave them?

How can I force myself to believe the Bible stories about Enoch and Elijah being abducted by fiery chariots? Where is the evidence? You're asking me believe Bible stories.

originally posted by: windword
Where is the evidence that Jesus has bestowed eternal life on anyone?

Back to the the theme of the thread, Thought Provoker said nothing thought provoking, but simply stated the same old tired Christian rhetoric.

How can I force myself believe that someone who might have lived and died 2000 years ago, is knocking on the door of my heart, waiting to be invited in so that he can save me from my own death, when I KNOW that death is something that everyone will experience, guaranteed?

Well, rather than me trying to answer questions that are actually for Thought Provoker, especially since my last attempt to answer only provoked more questions, I will await Thought Provoker's reply to you.

I am also awaiting Thought Provoker's reply to my questions and responses here:

My original question of Thought Provoker about the two great commandments of Jesus and what seems to be much more spoken about in terms of the Christian message

Followed by a few of Thought Provoker's attempts to answer it using only the second great commandment, thus prompting this last response from me:

Patiently awaiting your response, Thought Provoker

Hopefully, I will not have to start a separate thread about this.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

Do they exist? Where are they? Are they alive? .....Walking around and preaching about the eternal life that Jesus gave them?

How can I force myself to believe the Bible stories about Enoch and Elijah being abducted by fiery chariots? Where is the evidence? You're asking me believe Bible stories.

Who is asking you to believe it?

You asked for people saved from death, the argument was about Peter and Lazarus. I replied Enoch and Elijah.

That doesn't mean you have to believe it, I merely answered the question.

The Book of Enoch isn't in the Bible, but every religious Jew opens the door for Elijah at Passover. Really, they physically open a physical door for Elijah to come and sit in a physical chair, because they expect the physical Elijah to come.

And you believe in reincarnation, or at least I thought you did, so then people don't really die, they just transmigrate. Should I be forced by you to believe that if you mention it? No, you would not force me to believe it just because you say it.

What then saves the reincarnated from eternal death? Reincarnation is the concept of eternal life, isn't it? What then is the difference?

The mechanism of reincarnation isn't explained. At least we have an explanation for eternal life in our faith system. But I am not forcing you to believe that.

Reincarnation...eternal life, both the same idea.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Vampire ghosts.....never heard of one, never met one.

For some reason, the first choice that popped up with a Google search was a webpage describing how souls must be moved to somewhere or else they hang around as ghosts and suck life.

When I tried to find the webpage again, I couldn't find it. Just now, I was reading other pages that didn't sound that weird.

My bad, judging all the sites by one weirdo one. Sorry.

ETA

I just found it: www.sacredserpent.net...

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: WarminIndy

Vampire ghosts.....never heard of one, never met one.

For some reason, the first choice that popped up with a Google search was a webpage describing how souls must be moved to somewhere or else they hang around as ghosts and suck life.

When I tried to find the webpage again, I couldn't find it. Just now, I was reading other pages that didn't sound that weird.

My bad, judging all the sites by one weirdo one. Sorry.

I have seen too much in my life.

If you were the last comfort for a dying person, that's all that matters. No one expects you to do more than that, because dying people need comfort too.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I was specifically addressing comments of Thought Provoker, who said that Jesus wants to save us from death, here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

"From what?" would've been answered by him with, "From death." He's knocking to keep you from falling off that cliff, to keep you from walking out in front of that bus, to keep you from doing your eternal self in thanks to not having all the facts about the true nature of spiritual reality.

Jesus hasn't, to my knowledge, ever saved anyone from death. Everybody dies.

Reincarnation...eternal life, both the same idea.

No, they're not. There's no need for salvation in reincarnation. Reincarnation doesn't require Jesus or God.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

I was specifically addressing comments of Thought Provoker, who said that Jesus wants to save us from death, here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

"From what?" would've been answered by him with, "From death." He's knocking to keep you from falling off that cliff, to keep you from walking out in front of that bus, to keep you from doing your eternal self in thanks to not having all the facts about the true nature of spiritual reality.

Jesus hasn't, to my knowledge, ever saved anyone from death. Everybody dies.

Reincarnation...eternal life, both the same idea.

No, they're not. There's no need for salvation in reincarnation. Reincarnation doesn't require Jesus or God.

Is Nirvana not a type of salvation?

What does reaching Nirvana require?

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: WarminIndy

ETA

I just found it: www.sacredserpent.net...

OK, now I understand the term vampire ghost.

Yep, seen ghosts, apparitions, many things.