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How Does One "Make Themselves" Believe?

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posted on May, 21 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy



So could it be that for whatever reason, the atoms of the snake were absorbed into me?

That seems more along the lines of signs and portents surrounding birth. The left leg would indicate non-orthodoxy ( but see that's what you've said all along. So I'm a fraud, telling you what you want to hear.)

Kicking the green arms away. You belong to the Earth on your own terms. Again, I'm a fraud.

If you were to post that over on Paranormal forum, you would, no doubt, get all kinds of interpretations based upon some system of universal symbology. Particularly the snake. But that's rather limited.

I'm sorry.




posted on May, 21 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: WarminIndy



So could it be that for whatever reason, the atoms of the snake were absorbed into me?

That seems more along the lines of signs and portents surrounding birth. The left leg would indicate non-orthodoxy ( but see that's what you've said all along. So I'm a fraud, telling you what you want to hear.)

Kicking the green arms away. You belong to the Earth on your own terms. Again, I'm a fraud.

If you were to post that over on Paranormal forum, you would, no doubt, get all kinds of interpretations based upon some system of universal symbology. Particularly the snake. But that's rather limited.

I'm sorry.


I trust your opinion, that is why I asked you. If I thought you were a fraud, I would not have asked.

And I did say "opinion". Everyone's opinion is worthy enough to be listened to, even yours and mine.




edit on 5/21/2015 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: pthena

Dream interpretation relies more on individual psychology than on universal symbology. Because there is no universal symbology.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy



I would rather the justice come in this life. I don't know about purgatory, maybe it is there, maybe not. I just don't know.

Maybe, just maybe, the justice comes when the hurt are made better in heaven while the wicked are faced with watching God wipe the tears away from the ones they hurt?

I think to make them see the damage they did, with the full realization of what they did, maybe that's the torment.


Let's go back to this for a moment. The heart's desire is for justice to be done.

Consider the famous Buddhist quote:

“If you meet the Buddha, kill him.”– Linji

and a Buddhist explanation:

But how do you meet the Buddha on this “road?” Imagine meeting some symbolic Buddha. Would he be a great teacher that you might actually meet and follow in the real world? Could that Buddha be you yourself, having reached Enlightenment? Or maybe you have some idealized image of perfection that equates to your concept of the Buddha or Enlightenment.
If You Meet The Buddha

Take the typical Christian understanding of heaven.

So I jumped on my wind horse and flew higher than Icarus, and finally lighted on that celestial shore.

I dug through the wall of the city and tracked down the guy who claimed to be me.

After asking him questions about the damage he had done; permanent damage to a boy's face, vandalizing a church, breaking a girl's heart. And he responded, "Everything's fine now." to each question,

I then realized, that lobotomized caricature isn't me at all. So I killed him, and fled the city.

(Movie Scene)

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
However, when he looks closely at McMurphy's unresponsive face, he is horrified to see lobotomy scars on his forehead. Unwilling to allow McMurphy to live in such a state, the Chief smothers McMurphy to death with his pillow. He then carries out McMurphy's escape plan by lifting the hydrotherapy console off the floor and hurling the massive fixture through a grated window. Chief climbs through the window and runs off into the distance, with Taber waking up just in time to see him escape and cheering as the others awake.

edit on 21-5-2015 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm


Dream interpretation relies more on individual psychology than on universal symbology. Because there is no universal symbology.

That wasn't all dream. There are books that purport to list the universal symbols.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: pthena

That's basically what they mean by saying "rid yourself of ego" or whatever variation comes to mind. Its a pretty way of saying "lobotomize me, cap'n!"



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:18 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: TzarChasm


Dream interpretation relies more on individual psychology than on universal symbology. Because there is no universal symbology.

That wasn't all dream. There are books that purport to list the universal symbols.


Symbolism only means symbolism to the individual.

That's why those books are pretty popular, because everyone likes to assume the symbolism is universal.

The only symbol we really need universally is this

... - - - ...



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: WarminIndy



I would rather the justice come in this life. I don't know about purgatory, maybe it is there, maybe not. I just don't know.

Maybe, just maybe, the justice comes when the hurt are made better in heaven while the wicked are faced with watching God wipe the tears away from the ones they hurt?

I think to make them see the damage they did, with the full realization of what they did, maybe that's the torment.


Let's go back to this for a moment. The heart's desire is for justice to be done.

Consider the famous Buddhist quote:

“If you meet the Buddha, kill him.”– Linji

and a Buddhist explanation:

But how do you meet the Buddha on this “road?” Imagine meeting some symbolic Buddha. Would he be a great teacher that you might actually meet and follow in the real world? Could that Buddha be you yourself, having reached Enlightenment? Or maybe you have some idealized image of perfection that equates to your concept of the Buddha or Enlightenment.
If You Meet The Buddha

Take the typical Christian understanding of heaven.

So I jumped on my wind horse and flew higher than Icarus, and finally lighted on that celestial shore.

I dug through the wall of the city and tracked down the guy who claimed to be me.

After asking him questions about the damage he had done; permanent damage to a boy's face, vandalizing a church, breaking a girl's heart. And he responded, "Everything's fine now." to each question,

I then realized, that lobotomized caricature isn't me at all. So I killed him, and fled the city.

(Movie Scene)

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
However, when he looks closely at McMurphy's unresponsive face, he is horrified to see lobotomy scars on his forehead. Unwilling to allow McMurphy to live in such a state, the Chief smothers McMurphy to death with his pillow. He then carries out McMurphy's escape plan by lifting the hydrotherapy console off the floor and hurling the massive fixture through a grated window. Chief climbs through the window and runs off into the distance, with Taber waking up just in time to see him escape and cheering as the others awake.


Maybe all you had to do was show the mirror?



Oz never did nothin' to the Tin Man he didn't already have.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'd say that children are people also - of course. So like all people you were different than others as all people are. It might have something to do with your genetics that you received from your parents or through a deeper part of the line in your family tree. It might be because you are being mind controlled by a computer to make you think the way you do. Maybe it is both possibilities.

Just my 2 cents.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm




Its a pretty way of saying "lobotomize me, cap'n!"

Did you mean, "lobotomize me, Scotty"?



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

Sorry, only the old know that, and tech buffs.
July 12, 1999



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 03:23 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: WarminIndy

Sorry, only the old know that, and tech buffs.
July 12, 1999


As I am taking time between tasks (not good at multitasking) I am colorizing a photo of JFK.
I just came back to read this.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

Do you really want to know what it means to be marked at birth with the black serpent sinister?

And once again, it isn't anything that isn't already obvious.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

you imply that I have no control over whether it happens or not, that it is an event I can't refuse, and wouldn't want to. That's not a choice -that's something being done TO me, not OF me.

Your choices in life reflect your soul's true self. (That's the "meaning of life," by the way: we're here to prove whether our soul is worthy or not by the actions we choose to perform or not perform.) I believe literally everyone has equal opportunity to earn salvation through their actions. It sounds to me like you're doing pretty good in the actions and true-self department, and that indicates exactly one thing. As Jesus said, in John 14:23-24:


“Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching... Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching.”

You're already obeying the teachings of Jesus, aren't you? That was your choice. And because of it, God will choose to invite you to believe. He will not invite someone who has chosen not to follow Jesus' teachings. These are two different choices; one is yours (obey teachings or not), and it determines what God will choose (invite you to be a believer or not). Are you sure you don't already believe? It's sometimes not easy to self-examine yourself to that low of a level. You may be confusing worry with disbelief.

Look. It's obvious that you already love Christ. You're already a fan of his philosophies. You're already being invited, even if you don't hear it. I think all you have to do at this point is close your eyes and pray a little. "I heard you knocking, Jesus. C'mon in and perfect me. I welcome you into my heart." That sort of thing. Have you tried it before? Even if you have, give it another go or ten. He rewards persistence, and sometimes he tests us to see if we really mean it. If you really mean it, you'll never stop asking, begging for Christ to come in and start repairing any remaining flaws. Maybe he's already part of you, too, and you're already saved; it's a very subtle feeling sometimes, easy to miss. And if you ever got saved in a past life (yes, Christians can believe in reincarnation, there's actually scripture supporting it), you, your soul, was born into this life sort of "pre-saved." You just wouldn't remember getting saved. You may have already been literally born again, and all this worrying for nothing. Or you may not have been. There's no way for me to know which. All I can do is present possibilities.

This thread exists because you're seeking him. I think you may have found him long ago but didn't recognize him. So no, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see you amongst the saved ones. Just keep seeking Christ. Those who are saved pretty much can't help but do that, because we never get to see him but always want to. Meeting Christ is going to be pretty awesome.

Now! Let me address one last thing...


if your Jesus has such a convoluted method of "choosing" who "gets in", regardless of whether they were the nicest, most generous and compassionate, humble and selfless person ever - without "sin" (as you see it), but they die without believing this Jesus stuff - they will burn?

THAT, my friend, is coercion. It's a game where only "Jesus" knows the rules and only people who vote for him will win.

I don't believe that, and I never will.

(Note: in the next paragraphs, I use "you" to refer to "anyone." I don't mean literally YOU.)


Let's say I tell you not to jump off the top of El Capitan because you'll die. (And you would; that's a 3,000-foot drop.) If you ignore me and jump anyway, and then plummet to your death, am I to blame for your death? Did I design El Capitan so it would be deadly? No; all I did was try to warn you of the inevitable consequences of a very poorly-made choice (to jump), and your death was a consequence of ignoring my advice. The Rules are: gravity will kill you if you don't respect it.

If I tell you "Don't stay under water too long or you'll drown," and you then drown, do you blame me, the water, or yourself? I'm the one warning you about the consequences, so I cannot be blamed for what happens to you when you ignore me. I tried to help you avoid drowning. Water was designed for drinking, not breathing, but you can do both of those with it. Gravity was designed to stick us to our chairs, not so we'd hurtle to our deaths, but it can do both things. If you don't know those rules, you'll die the first time you come across a cliff or a lake. With me so far?

Jesus came here to tell us the Rules, yes, among other things. But he didn't decide "Hey, I'm gonna just slaughter everyone who doesn't believe in me." Failing to believe in him will have the consequence of preventing you from gaining eternal life, but not because that's what he wants! He's trying to save us. If you put on a parachute before jumping off El Capitan, it will save your life. Jesus is our parachute, our SCUBA gear. Failing to "put him on" may result in your death, but it's not a punishment! It's a natural consequence! And it'll be all your fault for not listening!

Non-believers all seem to have that misconception. They confuse consequence with punishment. "Well, screw God, then, if he's going to be so demanding and picky about who I am and what I believe!" they think. That rejection is literally the same as rejecting the theory of gravity while standing on El Capitan. "Well, screw gravity, then, if it's going to be so demanding and restrictive on me! Here I goooooooo!" *SPLAT* How stupid would that be? Don't go splat. Please. Splatting sucks.

These aren't "my hellfire threats." Threats always involve punishments for disobeying, and as I pointed out, eternal hellfire isn't a punishment, it's a result, no different from what having lungs full of water will do to you. I'm not engaging in "exclusive mind games." Why would I expend the effort for that? And what have I said that would scare anyone? You're attributing to me all these traits that "bad Christians" have when I don't have them. It's like you see the "Christian" label on someone and immediately type-cast them. That's why I almost hate even calling myself "Christian," because of the mud "bad Christians" have dragged that label through. I prefer "Yahushuan" (yah-who-SHOE-un). I'm a Christian who despises organized churches, who can love a man or woman equally, who drinks and smokes and cusses like a sailor, who doesn't ever ever judge others, who doesn't hate anyone (not even Henry Kissinger), a Christian filled with love and tolerance and as open-minded as the most liberal liberal ever (which was, interestingly enough, Jesus himself)... and it tears my heart to shreds knowing just how rare I am. Megachurches, "salvation factories," the entire Roman Catholic Church, they are DESTROYING Christianity because that's what they were designed to do. Satan owns every televangelist, every organized religion, everything in this world that calls itself "important" and "holy." I'd rather jump off El Capitan than go to church. It'd be the happiest 20.7 seconds of my life. (Long fall.)

So if I'm scary, I'm sorry, but it's unavoidable. El Capitan is pretty scary too. Most of reality is. Some people are terrified of water, but not warning them about drowning risks just because it'd scare them would be extremely irresponsible. And I'm out of room.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: TzarChasm


Dream interpretation relies more on individual psychology than on universal symbology. Because there is no universal symbology.

That wasn't all dream. There are books that purport to list the universal symbols.


"purport" being the keyword. did you forget that every single one of those book is printed on a single planet? written by a single race? thats not what i call "universal".



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: ForteanOrg


We simply don't know enough yet.

Thank you. I ended up taking migraine strength analgesic after thinking about that.

There are problems with using particle physics as a model.

1) It takes a physicist to understand why the results fall within a range of probability rather than predictability.

2) So people must take someone else's word for it.

3) Even within the field there are four different interpretations ( according to Wikipedia ).


You are the one that called it a model I just used your terminology.My point was is and has always been it is impossible to "know" the truth of reality by belief in faith through the Belief System religion.The perception (belief) of observation(faith) of particles causes them to conform to what the observer(mankind) perceives as reality.Physicist call that collapsing the wave form of possibilities.The point is… none know how or why it works …only that it does.That’s why the double slit experiment is the most performed experiment in history.If nothing else it is the key to the code however even that cannot be perceived by the very nature of the experiment.

Einstein wrote a paper on the problem of quantum entanglement non locality(called the EPR paper if you want to check it out..which btw I’m sure you don’t)and it basically concluded non locality was a mathematical anomaly and a disposable artifact of an algorithm. He called it spooky action at a distance and in effect dismissed it as such(as did the physicist community for almost 30 years) until John Bell purported the physical universe is non local because there was no algorithm that could avoid non localities and the can of worms burst open.(Its a non local world after all…Its a non local world after all…)

My whole point is ..it ain’t rocket surgery. The basic premise of non locality quantum entanglement provides ample evidence that the physical realm is NOT being perceived as it truly is.Man perceives quantum with their “# together” not as have infinite possibilities of locations in time/space.AS long as the quantum are perceived by observation the universe will not be perceived as a void of infinite possibilities but with form and observable positions of quantum(thank God!!).I am not trying to solve the mysteries of the universe because it cannot be solved by the perception of observation of what I call BS religion.The theorems of quantum non locality is a tidy sum of this true phenomenon. It is not answering how it works because it can’t.It can only observe the spooky action.

The huge disconnect between what I am saying and you are hearing is that I am NOT proposing some kind of “system” and how all the mechanics of it work.I am only stating the premise of mans “perception” of existence which can be summed very simply in quantum mechanics non locality entanglement.Man only perceives “matter” as local.A hydrogen molecule is made of two elements 1 hydrogen 2 oxygen atoms.H2O…..You perceive the drop of water dripping from your leaky kitchen sink faucet as being local in YOUR house on planet earth in a solar system located in the Milky Way galaxy.However that is only your perception of it which collapsed the wave form of infinite possibilities to be the one you are perceiving!! That means YOU are GOD!!!!!! all hail Pthena master of matter the King of the Uni…….uhhh or may be not.

…..Once you come back to earth and perceive you ain’t God things will be clearer and as Homer Simpson would say( hear his voice)….”in case you didn’t know..I’m being sarcastic”.Bless the hearts of all the physicists of the world who are performing the double slit experiment(the most performed experiment in history).They are exposing the evidence of the reality of the universe in every observation.The universe is NOT LOCAL!All the matter in the universe is in reality possibility waves and in a very real way more like “bits” of information(ones and zero’s) …..like ….a computer program..in the matrix.I’m not making this # up to be theatrical….there are many theoretical physicist that are pursuing this line of reasoning and have a lot of evidence.

Of course what that does is conjure up images of the movie the Matrix who basically got their idea from physicists (and a screen play they plagiarized).It does not take ingesting the red pill to know this.The evidence is everywhere hidden in plain sight.The most evidence is the point of what I’ve been stating.The grand delusion of the BS religion and the even bigger delusion of a GOD of religion.

Just as man perceives a wave of possibilities particles collapsing into “matter” so they also perceive a God.It is just as real to them that believe as local matter yet it is only a perception of the mind…it is not the reality of truth.The true creator God is not Christof directing Truman.The true creator God cannot be perceived.The God(s) that man believe(perceive) is a collapsing of a possibility wave form which is made in their imagination(image) in their mind(their heavens) therefore those that do not believe in God have no imagination!!(hahaha)

I am not trying to condense the mysteries of the universe into a simplistic nutshell.The truth is the mysteries are unfathomable. What can be known is ..they truth is unfathomable!!My point is..get on with your life.Navel gazing will only produce more navel gazing.The mysteries some seek to solve will not be solved no matter how much they invest in it.The possibility wave form will collapse infinitely only to reveal more…nothing.The only way to know the intimate truth about this system is to be outside of it…good luck with that.

In closing I leave you with the words of what physicist Yahoshua had to say about it.

The Kingdom of the creator God comes WITHOUT observation because it is neither here nor there[non local] but is present in your midst.





edit on 21-5-2015 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 04:57 PM
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a reply to: Rex282


The God(s) that man believe(perceive) is a collapsing of a possibility wave form which is made in their imagination(image) in their mind(their heavens) therefore those that do not believe in God have no imagination!!(hahaha)


most people give up imaginary friends when they learn how to make real ones.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: WarminIndy

Do you really want to know what it means to be marked at birth with the black serpent sinister?

And once again, it isn't anything that isn't already obvious.


It was always a mystery to me, but someone once told me it was a sign for snake magic. I don't even know what that means.

I think I know from your perspective.

Children are often born marked, I don't why but it seems to be something relevant. From my relatives in the hills, they always talked about it. I thought it was just mere Southern superstition, but I don't know. Some people call it mere coincidence, some people say there is more to it.



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: Rex282



The God(s) that man believe(perceive) is a collapsing of a possibility wave form which is made in their imagination(image) in their mind(their heavens) therefore those that do not believe in God have no imagination!!(hahaha)

Imagination is a good thing. It can be used for problem solving. But yeah, imaginative fiction should be kept in the imaginative fiction section of the Library.

And yes, I was the one who called it a model. But it did get you to explain more clearly.

edit on 21-5-2015 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2015 @ 05:31 PM
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a reply to: Rex282
Thanks for this great summary - much appreciated!

All such possibility wave forms are still conditional in nature, though obviously very subtle and not obeying the laws of space and time like we tend to believe and operate in. And some kind of creator-God idea is just another possibility, but which makes no sense to me as Reality, because such a Creator-God would be objectifiable, and therefore able to be separated from other conditional realities.

From the Unconditional "perspective", It does seem that Reality would necessarily be indivisible (not objectifiable) and beyond cause and effect - and yet, not separate from all possibilities, whether appearing or not to any observer. Thus Reality is unqualified Unconditional indivisible Consciousness-Light.

From the conditional perspective, all forms are conditional modifications of Unconditional Reality, which is Consciousness-Light. Unqualified Light is modified by its own consciousness or awareness being associated with an observer function - e.g., attention in the case of humans, and thus wave form possibilities are manifested accordingly.

Your thoughts?




edit on 5/21/2015 by bb23108 because:



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