Submariner Blows the Whistle on Trident

a reply to: MysterX

I don't think the government would care what we have to say if they enforced a D-notice.

They dont "Slap a d-notice" on it anyway.

Now there are 5 standing D-Notices that the members have agreed to.

Number 2 is regarding nuclear weapons capabilities, the point i am making is that if what he was saying was truly going to compromise the security of our nuclear deterrent then that D notice would be in effect and the MSN would not be linking to the letter as they would have been informed that it was a breach of the D-notice (which is not actually enforceable but is at the media's agreement).

a reply to: ukmicky1980

I worked for a company that supports UK and U.S. Navies. Strict security clearance for all relevant staff. Control of information and documents so uncleared staff have no access.

Control of staff on sites extremely tight including base in question.

Subcons have to have an approved escort on site.

a reply to: ukmicky1980

In the US, the crew supplies security at the dockside. There's security up to the dock, and then dockside it's the ship's responsibility.

originally posted by: ukmicky1980
Just out of interest,

When a subarine is in port for repairs etc.. are base personell or boat personell responsible for the security of the boat?

I.e. the security of the base appears to be lax from this article (if true), however, could a non-authorised person actually get near one of our nuclear subs?

If you work at a UK Nuclear weapons facility and have accesses to sensitive information or the weapons themselves in any capacity you are subjected to "Developed Vetting" which is the most comprehensive level of vetting we have i believe.

I know this because I applied for a job working in that area once.

As a kid and young adult,up to about the age of 35 or so-I was a massivley anti trident UK citizen.
I am now 40 and although I would hate to see a nuclear bomb used,I would rather the UK keep that option in todays times.

The world of humans is heading towards chaos.
We are so clever and so stupid at the same time IMO.

So clever we think we are not stupid...
Subconscious appetite for destruction.
But,we the UK are small game now and therefore we need the big nuke guns as the so called game intensifies.

Am I wrong-or have I gone to the dark side?
I hope not,I am trying to be rational in the face of adversity.

Am I being irrational?
When enemy threats multiply-would you really want to throw away your best weapons?

I sense Black bags and black vans followed by a dis appeareance over the english channel for this whistle blower.

The ISPS Code outlines the very strict requirements to enter a port facility, new screening and induction processes and the logging and monitoring of any individual on or off a vessel.

Unfortunately, as is the case globally, the Military are about 30 years behind the private sector in actually actioning and maintaining such enacted laws - usually due to complacency that because they are the military, the rules do not apply to them.

It does not help that Military port facilities do not usually come under the direct control of the port authority of that particular city - they have their own security officers and means of entry - and they usually shirk ISPS requirements.

This whistleblowers assertions certainly can be backed up by anyone who spends a few days just watching what happens between military controlled port facilities and normal commercial port facilities.

originally posted by: DAZ21
McNeilly...Sounds like a Scottish traitor, playing a dangerous game to me.

People like this should be psychologically tested to make sure they can keep secret information secure. Also they need to be evaluated on their allegiances. Are they loyal to the UK

My bet is this guy is an SNP supporter, giving the hornets nest a little kick.

Scotland had people like this who complained about similar sort of things that happened in the oil industry. They were ignored until there was the Piper Alpha disaster where an entire oil rig exploded (en.wikipedia.org...). After the investigation, a set of recommendations were made, and these were all the things that workers had warned about in the first place. Managers would rather keep oil and gas pumped at high pressure into a oil rig that they could see was burning rather than risk losing their jobs over the loss of oil revenue.

There's a tradition of "macho engineering" where managers prefer to keep doing the things the way they are always done rather than a culture of constant improvements. Another close calls related to nuclear technology is the Windscale fire and Three Mile Island:

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

The danger isn't the technology, it's the cost cutting that is often made.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Babcock Engineering dont have issues with Criminal records, put it that way...What they do have is Issues with lying about your criminal past...just a tip for anyone turning up for the induction.. even if you stole a Mcgowans toffee aged two, fess up or you are off site.

You make it sound a bit like joining the Church of Scientology and being selected for The Sea Org.

There were a lot of red tags on equipment in most of the compartments we went into. I highly suspected a lot of them were for defect rectification, rather than standard maintenance Tagouts.

These red tags were because the ship was in drydock with non ships crew working on equipment.

The US navy does the same thing.
After a drydock type maintenance period you go out on a shakedown run that may last for 1 to 4 days.
This would not be classed as a patrol but that is what he is calling it.

As for loading supplies in what he calls a rendom way, what likely he does not see is they were using a system like the US navy does where everything is palatalized and everything on a pallet goes into one ships compartment.

The chief potential hazard associated with a live missile is the accidental ignition of the first, second or third stage rocket motor propellant.

Not going to happen as these are US made missiles and are built with fail safes so there is no way for a accidental ignition.
The missile is not live the launch codes have been entered and both launch keys have been turned.

The ship they are on may be junk but the Trident II missile is not

a reply to: DAZ21

He is Irish according to his passport.
www.scribd.com...#

I have seen bases where the main entrance is guarded but other entrances are not, its not all that uncommon but at Faslane I've only been at the main entrance and security was ok there.

As someone who served in the US Navy equivalent, I think this fellow doesn't know as much as he thinks he knows... For example, if the UK subs are anything close to the US sub capabilities, 65 meters cannot possibly be the max safe diving depth - Recreational scuba divers can nearly go that deep, and throw in some tri-mix and you're at 100 meters... The 300 meters is more likely the normal limit.

Also he goes on and on about how one person with malicious intent could sabotage the sub - this is no secret and is simply the nature of the environment. There are many critical systems and no practical way to secure them all, while being able to operate the ship as needed. That's why potential bubbleheads go through rigorous psych testing before being allowed on a sub - and at least on the US side, they only take volunteers; they cannot force someone to serve on submarines. While I was deployed we did have one guy lose it - they relieved him of duty, confined him to his bunk, and had a 24 hour suicide watch on him until we could meet a helicopter to take him off the boat. You can usually figure out pretty quick if someone can't handle it...

Even in my current civilian job I have access to many critical systems containing lots of hazardous chemicals/gases, and could cause quite a bit of damage. I could run down an isle pressing the emergency stop buttons on equipment and cost the company many millions of dollars in lost product. It's simply a matter of trust.

Granted, it does appear there is a major lack of discipline on his sub. While that is a problem that needs fixing, I didn't see any earth shattering information in his ramblings. It seems to me this guy was thrust into an unfamiliar environment and had a bit of culture shock. But this is no revelation on the same level as Edward Snowden...

I served many years on U.S. subs. He sounds like he isn't ready for the submarine force. I've met many like him. First, there is a proper chain of command to report these types of problems. Leaking all of this to MSM is gonna land him in some serious trouble. All of the mechanical issues are most likely from lack of maintenance/training and will be scrutinized now. The security issues are an easy fix, plain and simple they just need to do their job. Overall, the submarine won't be leaving the pier for a good while. The chain of command will be reassigned. They will be put through all kinds of evaluations regarding nuclear, security, maintenance, etc. until their higher ups feel it is ready to be operational again.

He is not the UK Eric Snowden. Leaking facts that the personnel on his submarine are poorly trained, unprofessional, and have no regard for safety has nothing to do with government corruption. This guy is just pissed off he got assigned to the scum of their submarine fleet. Let me know when he really starts to leak anything juicy, if he knows anything

originally posted by: yuppa
I sense Black bags and black vans followed by a dis appeareance over the english channel for this whistle blower.

Oi, he'll zip himself into a gym bag in the tub.

originally posted by: amicktd
I served many years on U.S. subs. He sounds like he isn't ready for the submarine force. I've met many like him. First, there is a proper chain of command to report these types of problems. Leaking all of this to MSM is gonna land him in some serious trouble. All of the mechanical issues are most likely from lack of maintenance/training and will be scrutinized now. The security issues are an easy fix, plain and simple they just need to do their job. Overall, the submarine won't be leaving the pier for a good while. The chain of command will be reassigned. They will be put through all kinds of evaluations regarding nuclear, security, maintenance, etc. until their higher ups feel it is ready to be operational again.

He is not the UK Eric Snowden. Leaking facts that the personnel on his submarine are poorly trained, unprofessional, and have no regard for safety has nothing to do with government corruption. This guy is just pissed off he got assigned to the scum of their submarine fleet. Let me know when he really starts to leak anything juicy, if he knows anything

A voice of reason, thank you. There aren't many brand new submarines in any nuclear Navy. They take decades to design, build and test. There's always something broken, something leaking, someone complaining, someone slacking, near disasters, lousy skippers, XOs, COBs, and so on. Like most jobs, sometimes your superiors are a real pain. Sometimes they're exemplary. Working on a sub is generally a boring, uncomfortable job, and it doesn't pay as well as it should. You'll work all day and night from time-to-time. You'd better like the way men smell (haha). You'd better like sleeping where someone else just slept. No privacy. There's nothing terribly glamorous about it. And no, the security isn't what I would call air-tight, reason being that it takes a crew to do anything noteworthy on a boomer, particularly launching a Trident. Security is much tighter at defense contractor facilities. By far and away. Also, safety is sometimes an afterthought, because the sub and crew are an instrument of war, after all. Anyway, he's just not cut out for the job. Seems like one of those drama queens. Too bad he went out like this ..

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Was learning Russian. Oo-er.
www.thetimes.co.uk...

a reply to: Soloprotocol

He's handed himself in. I feel he'll be safe enough as long as he doesn't incriminate himself any more than he has.

a reply to: grainofsand

You keep rambling about rambling and suggesting the detailed document could've been accomplished "in only a few sentences." Hardly.

Although it might have "rambled" a bit, it certainly wasn't incoherent and might have more to do with the depth of the situation and HIS situation now. Of course he could be a disgruntled malcontent spouting nonsense, but your rambling is sorely lacking much intellectual impetus and as such--according to your own speculation--might call into question your own "mental health/emotional state/psychological condition."

a reply to: The GUT

Oh three succinct replies in a thread is classed as rambling now is it? OK.

Wow soundsvlike he accidently joined the Russian navy instead

Thing us the USN seem to gush at how great our submarines are and well trained we are.
If this report is true but our subs and crew are the best what does that say about the rest of the worlds nuke sub fleet?