Is "God" the Real Deceiver?

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Couldn't have said it any better....

originally posted by: ForceMaster
a reply to: TzarChasm

Thank you for the explanation. The first thing people do is blame themselves. If you or myself created something, based on your response to "the2ofusr1", and it became filled with chaos and death, hatred and despair, would it not be required of us as the creators of these beings to stop it and show them how to live in harmony with all life? Would we not want them to know all the great mysteries of the Universe, and see all of the wonders that exist out there? Absolutely. But this "god" gives orders to slaughter children, and even his own son for that matter, for his own twisted ego. Even communion is a blood ritual. The drinking of blood AND the eating of flesh as well now that I think about it.

The tree is known by it's fruit. His fruit is war, despair, chaos, suffering and pain. And in his methods of seeding his agenda, he convinced humanity that by their very birth, they have sinned in his eyes.

its classic stockholm syndrome, which most psychopaths employ because its the easiest way to make damn sure your victim never walks away of their own power. they will always feel guilty and come crawling back.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: TzarChasm

If He only intervened in mans evil choices we could not show free will .The mere fact that evil and goodness exist is because we humans have the ability to make those choices .This is no longer Paradise even though that though is one we have and should try to aspire to .Trying to make things better while others couldn't give a hoot and being greedy at the cost of others . We impose temporal judgement on those that would violate that code or we seem to know that we should .

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

if we are to be responsible in his stead, then let us not waste time in mistaking his absence for diligence or his silence for wisdom. lets recognize these qualities for what they are instead of redefining them via theology, and accept that something doesnt add up here. if obama catches flack for his management skill, then god should most certainly be held accountable for his failings. and barring that, then at least be revealed as psychopath and black listed for the rest of his fictional existence.

Sigh...
The classic argument of omnipotence, omnisience, and omnibenevolence being incompatible.
The answer IS free will.

You think the all loving thing to do would be to create a perfect universe full of robots lacking free will? No, freedom--the freedom to choose God or not to--is the ultimate form of love. Completely controlling someone is NOT loving. Free will is a contract that God guaranteed. He has the power to break it, but it is not loving to do so. The pain and suffering of this earth PALES in insignificance in comparison to the eternal paradise. True power can be restrained.
Of course you won't like that answer, because you don't want to accept it. Most of you can't reconcile the problem of evil. It's like a kid getting a DUI and totaling his car and blaming his parents for giving him a car.

Arguing about God not curing a hospital full of cancer patients is just so juvenile. I'm so thankful that my atheist days are in the past. If we are assuming there is a God, then this life is NOT the be all end all. If you want to argue about God--in your hypothetical ways--stop taking Him out of context

If your the only being around, how do you learn from yourself?

originally posted by: ForceMaster
a reply to: TzarChasm

Thank you for the explanation. The first thing people do is blame themselves. If you or myself created something, based on your response to "the2ofusr1", and it became filled with chaos and death, hatred and despair, would it not be required of us as the creators of these beings to stop it and show them how to live in harmony with all life? Would we not want them to know all the great mysteries of the Universe, and see all of the wonders that exist out there? Absolutely. But this "god" gives orders to slaughter children, and even his own son for that matter, for his own twisted ego. Even communion is a blood ritual. The drinking of blood AND the eating of flesh as well now that I think about it.

The tree is known by it's fruit. His fruit is war, despair, chaos, suffering and pain. And in his methods of seeding his agenda, he convinced humanity that by their very birth, they have sinned in his eyes.

You guys really should attempt to study and understand the Bible and Christianity if you want to argue about it.

"Humanity has by their very birth sinned in God's eyes." Humanity chose sin. I don't consider Original Sin whatever that may be to be any worse than the sins we all commit. Are you like offended that you're not perfect? One need only repent and ask God for forgiveness and truly mean it in their heart, making a deliberate effort to be a better person... Do that and any sin is forgiven. Not that hard to grasp. That is what Scripture actually states, even if down denominations have distorted that.

Jesus was God. The son of God, yes, but also God. He did not slaughter his own son for his own ego but to bridge the gap and ransom the sins of humanity. Through Christ on a level outside of space and time that ultimates applies to people even before Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, mankind can be redeemed if they believe. It's a freaking choice. An all loving God does not force someone to believe and love him. He lets people CHOOSE with the gift of FREE WILL.

On another note, Do you think that a man giving a girl literally anything and everything she would want would make her truly love him? Literally anything and everything within the power of a man. Perhaps he has tremendous wealth. I would wager that she wouldn't truly love him.

You expect a perfect world and without a perfect world, you assume there can be no perfect God. You seem to have a lot of faith that your understanding of how things are and how things would be is correct, as if you've ever truly witnessed or could even completely grasp perfection.

Please stop with Communion being a blood ritual. That is seriously just a perversion of what Jesus portrayed it as. Want to know what a real blood ritual is? Pagan human sacrifice. Like the Mayans did for their gods. So please stop. Statements like that make me reconsider taking atheists on ATS seriously. You're only striving to belittle things by describing them inaccurately. If you want a debate, let's debate, but every time an atheist says that Jesus was a copy of Mithras (do some research for once about how ridiculous the claim truly is) or that God is an invisible jerk pants in the sky who didn't give Atheist Albert a perfect life, I question the point of taking part in these discussions. On my end of the bargain, I promise not to use silly words to describe evolution to strengthen arguments against it by portraying it as something idiotic

a reply to: Achilles92x

No, freedom--the freedom to choose God or not to--is the ultimate form of love.

no. we have the freedom to love him or perish...literally. those are our only two choices. which really isnt a choice at all.

Completely controlling someone is loving.

eh...what?

Free will is a contract that God guaranteed.

on the condition that we exercise it as he wills.

The pain and suffering of this earth PALES in insignificance in comparison to the eternal paradise. True power can be restrained.
Of course you won't like that answer, because you don't want to accept it. Most of you can't reconcile the problem of evil. It's like a kid getting a DUI and totaling his car and blaming his parents for giving him a car.

no, its like buying a used car only to find out the salesman who sold it to you rigged the damn thing to break down in the middle of an intersection after selling you insurance that doubles its rates because you cant prove he sabotaged your car and now you have to sell the car to get a new one but no one has a car you can afford so you have to go back to the same jerk who cheated you to begin with.

Arguing about God not curing a hospital full of cancer patients is just so juvenile. I'm so thankful that my atheist days are in the past. If we are assuming there is a God, then this life is NOT the be all end all. If you want to argue about God--in your hypothetical ways--stop taking Him out of context

no more juvenile than insisting that two men who love each other are unnatural based on a talking snake and a magic fruit.

i will continue to discuss your fictional idol however i please so long as it remains kosher with t&cs.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
If your the only being around, how do you learn from yourself?

If there is an eternal, pre-existing God who created the universe, there is nothing for Him to learn... All things that able to be learned would be within Him.

When I was an atheist, I wondered about a being existing in nothingness, simply itself, and how it would do anything at all. All reactions in the observable would derive from stimulus. In nothingness, there would be no stimulus. God existing solely with no other stimuli would result in inactivity. Therefore if God existed, nothing else would.
The problem with my argument back then, no matter how much it appealed to me and may appeal to atheists here. That argument seems to make sense but it's applying flawed human logic based on a 3 dimensional universe restricted by time to a being beyond the universe and beyond time. In other words, my argument was bogus. The arguments atheists make are:
A. Often unknowingly limited by the definitions of words
B. Restricted by flawed human logic that arrogantly assumes it can fully and truly comprehend the question of all questions.
C. Restricted by a 3 dimensional space time perspective

originally posted by: Achilles92x

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
If your the only being around, how do you learn from yourself?

If there is an eternal, pre-existing God who created the universe, there is nothing for Him to learn... All things that able to be learned would be within Him.

When I was an atheist, I wondered about a being existing in nothingness, simply itself, and how it would do anything at all. All reactions in the observable would derive from stimulus. In nothingness, there would be no stimulus. God existing solely with no other stimuli would result in inactivity. Therefore if God existed, nothing else would.
The problem with my argument back then, no matter how much it appealed to me and may appeal to atheists here. That argument seems to make sense but it's applying flawed human logic based on a 3 dimensional universe restricted by time to a being beyond the universe and beyond time. In other words, my argument was bogus. The arguments atheists make are:
A. Often unknowingly limited by the definitions of words
B. Restricted by flawed human logic that arrogantly assumes it can fully and truly comprehend the question of all questions.
C. Restricted by a 3 dimensional space time perspective

and those problems are often solved by introducing supernatural factors whose exact dimensions have no basis in rationality but serve as a convenient plot device.

my turn...time to introduce some FACTS:

1. You have no idea what a 4 dimensional universe consists of and theres no point in pretending otherwise.

2. You have no idea as to the nature of "outside time and space" and theres no point in pretending otherwise.

3. You have no rational basis for even suggesting the concept of a lifeform that exist outside space and time and theres no point pretending otherwise.

4. Your hypothesis is crippled without supernatural forces (aforementioned) that conveniently resist the methodology of modern science and therefore continue to pass untested and unproven. and therefore purely hypothetical. not even theory.

you dont have to respond, im finished with this tangent of discussion.

TzarChasm:
Sorry I'm still new and my formatting didn't work. In all fairness I'm on my phone... These are in order corresponding to you're reply to my post. Thanks!


no. we have the freedom to love him or perish...literally. those are our only two choices. which really isnt a choice at all.

You have a choice between loving God or not, yes. That is a choice. The result of our choices dictates the outcome after death. Why would God force you to be with Him in the afterlife if you chose to reject Him? By choosing Him, our afterlife is with him. By not choosing him, He does not force us to be with him. After all, it isn't what you wanted to begin with. I don't accept a fire and brimstone Hell. I'm more inclined to accept non-existence, a lack of all sensation and experience, as being hell. That's not much different than what you atheists think will happen to you when you die anyway... So where's all the butt hurt come from?

What, would you sleep better at night if you rejected God and still got to spend eternity with Him? This is juvenile because it's akin to:
A parent telling a child that if he chooses to eat dinner with the family, he can have desert. And if he chooses not eat dinner with the family, then he cannot have desert. Then when he chooses not to eat dinner with the family, he complains that he doesn't get the desert. THAT is essentially a dumbed down version of what I'm taking it that you're upset about.

If you truly don't believe, then why do you even care?


"eh...what?"
It was a typo, sorry.

"on the condition that we exercise it as he wills."

Exercise it as he wills? Wowzers, loving one another and treating others as you would like to be treated. Gods a real egomaniac and jerk for wanting us to do that! No. All sin defies, saddens, offends, and disgusts God. But God is all forgiving if one is to truly repent. He need not force forgiveness on us for something that we believe we don't need forgiveness for.

"no, its like buying a used car only to find out the salesman who sold it to you rigged the damn thing to break down in the middle of an intersection after selling you insurance that doubles its rates because you cant prove he sabotaged your car and now you have to sell the car to get a new one but no one has a car you can afford so you have to go back to the same jerk who cheated you to begin with."

Lmao. What? Can't say I agree.

"no more juvenile than insisting that two men who love each other are unnatural based on a talking snake and a magic fruit.

i will continue to discuss your fictional idol however i please so long as it remains"

If you goto one of the posts on this board it talks about how this board is not for bashing people's religions and belittling people's faith. Using crappy terms like "talking snake and a magic fruit" and "fictional idol" in reference to my belief is unnecessary and juvenile. Sorry.


But... Hey actually, I partially agree with the above. I don't agree that a talking snake and magical fruit is the basis of Christianity, I think you're just being a tad unnecessary there...

But I do not agree with discriminating against homosexuals! Guess what! I don't like people that do that any more than I enjoy atheists! And I actually have a Biblical perspective backed by scripture that I plan to post sometime regarding the topic of homosexuality. But not for the moment as I am still new here.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Achilles92x

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
If your the only being around, how do you learn from yourself?

If there is an eternal, pre-existing God who created the universe, there is nothing for Him to learn... All things that able to be learned would be within Him.

When I was an atheist, I wondered about a being existing in nothingness, simply itself, and how it would do anything at all. All reactions in the observable would derive from stimulus. In nothingness, there would be no stimulus. God existing solely with no other stimuli would result in inactivity. Therefore if God existed, nothing else would.
The problem with my argument back then, no matter how much it appealed to me and may appeal to atheists here. That argument seems to make sense but it's applying flawed human logic based on a 3 dimensional universe restricted by time to a being beyond the universe and beyond time. In other words, my argument was bogus. The arguments atheists make are:
A. Often unknowingly limited by the definitions of words
B. Restricted by flawed human logic that arrogantly assumes it can fully and truly comprehend the question of all questions.
C. Restricted by a 3 dimensional space time perspective

and those problems are often solved by introducing supernatural factors whose exact dimensions have no basis in rationality but serve as a convenient plot device.

my turn...time to introduce some FACTS:

1. You have no idea what a 4 dimensional universe consists of and theres no point in pretending otherwise.

2. You have no idea as to the nature of "outside time and space" and theres no point in pretending otherwise.

3. You have no rational basis for even suggesting the concept of a lifeform that exist outside space and time and theres no point pretending otherwise.

4. Your hypothesis is crippled without supernatural forces (aforementioned) that conveniently resist the methodology of modern science and therefore continue to pass untested and unproven. and therefore purely hypothetical. not even theory.

you dont have to respond, im finished with this tangent of discussion.

LOL. I'm not claiming to comprehend such a thing. The common consensus of a creator would be that it exists beyond this dimension, I was simply stating that. And that if this was the case, we are limited in our 3 dimensional perspective when trying to understand it.

The word supernatural... If there really is a God who created the natural universe... He would technically be all that IS NATURAL. But sure, by the definition of supernatural, God would be. Supernatural, however, is a conditional thing. For something to be beyond scientific understanding, it need only be beyond our CURRENT scientific understanding. Much of the what our ancestors deemed supernatural has been shown to be natural....

Please provide me with a scientific explanation for the origin of life--inorganic matter becoming self replicating organic matter and eventually evolving into highly inteligent, conscious human beings. If you can't, I'll be forced to seem an atheists claim about the origin of life to be supernatural. Please also provide a scientific explanation for what causes the Big Bang and what existed before the Big Bang with your atheist understanding. I have a feeling that's pretty supernatural as well.

This issue always gets everybody all testy and fired up. When it really is so simple, follow your heart and be nice to others along the way.

a reply to: Achilles92x

You have a choice between loving God or not, yes. That is a choice. The result of our choices dictates the outcome after death. Why would God force you to be with Him in the afterlife if you chose to reject Him? By choosing Him, our afterlife is with him. By not choosing him, He does not force us to be with him.

by not choosing him, we dont get any afterlife at all. our rejection is rewarded with literal annihilation. i dont call that fair anymore than if the monarchy had blown up the mayflower as it was leaving the harbor.

After all, it isn't what you wanted to begin with. I don't accept a fire and brimstone Hell. I'm more inclined to accept non-existence, a lack of all sensation and experience, as being hell. That's not much different than what you atheists think will happen to you when you die anyway... So where's all the butt hurt come from?

please dont classify me. i dont claim myself as an atheist, theist, agnostic or gnostic. i identify as a secular humanist - god has no place in our government and humanitys interests should be first priority in any matter. thats where my irritation is coming from, placing god above people. no deity, fictional or real, is more important than the welfare and progress of our species. and i dont hold with deities demanding worship. in fact, i dont hold with worship at all. worship requires that one party be inherently inferior to another party and thats not how a healthy relationship works.

What, would you sleep better at night if you rejected God and still got to spend eternity with Him? This is juvenile because it's akin to:
A parent telling a child that if he chooses to eat dinner with the family, he can have desert. And if he chooses not eat dinner with the family, then he cannot have desert. Then when he chooses not to eat dinner with the family, he complains that he doesn't get the desert. THAT is essentially a dumbed down version of what I'm taking it that you're upset about.

or a parent telling a child that murdering his puppy with earn their favor?

lookin' at you abraham...

and im not really upset about anything in specific except that anyone would admire such a monstrosity. that gets to me a little bit. im not new to psychopaths and i see so many parallels...then to watch people gather once a week to adore the one in the sky while the ones i have personally met are eating three hots behind bars for doing the same crap. that doesnt make sense to me.

Exercise it as he wills? Wowzers, loving one another and treating others as you would like to be treated. Gods a real egomaniac and jerk for wanting us to do that! No. All sin defies, saddens, offends, and disgusts God. But God is all forgiving if one is to truly repent. He need not force forgiveness on us for something that we believe we don't need forgiveness for.

no, not what i meant. ten commandments, right? ten commandments. thats pretty limited space. only ten shots at making sure your kids have m eaningful relationships and dont kill each nother and can take care of themselves. and he dedicates FOUR WHOLE SLOTS to making sure we know who the big guy is. instead of clarifying how we can be better people and friends to one another. he was clearly more concerned about being forgotten than being practical.

If you goto one of the posts on this board it talks about how this board is not for bashing people's religions and belittling people's faith. Using crappy terms like "talking snake and a magic fruit" and "fictional idol" in reference to my belief is unnecessary and juvenile. Sorry.

prove that what i said was incorrect and i will admit my error. take your time, im in no rush.

But... Hey actually, I partially agree with the above. I don't agree that a talking snake and magical fruit is the basis of Christianity, I think you're just being a tad unnecessary there...

sorry for being honest?

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
This issue always gets everybody all testy and fired up. When it really is so simple, follow your heart and be nice to others along the way.

Star for you. I mostly agree. I participate in these discussions because this site is riddled with people bashing the idea of God and Christianity. They employ the same regurgitated atheist rhetoric and utilize demeaning and belittling diction. That is not tolerance nor kindness.

nevermind.. error in syntax

I would also like to ask a very serious and dark question for the believers in nothing and I don't mean that as any kind of jab. If there is no polarity or balance of any kind of energy as manifested by some source unbeknownst to the consciousness's held within any particular construct meaning no rules, then what stops the average person from just being "evil" (or not because there is no driving force for there to even be polarity) and maximizing their perceived existence by praying upon those that do restrict themselves by some moral code whether societally learned or naturally felt???

Without rules you could be virtually unstoppable to and within the capabilities of your intelligence. Let the Id take full control of the brain if you would. Hmm come to think of it that almost comes to close to describing some really nasty people that the folks around here like to talk about. I don't know if I like that, no, no sir I don't like it at all. reply to: Achilles92x

a reply to: Achilles92x

That website mixes yahweh/jehovah old testament anti-christ teachings with Jesus Christ.

"by not choosing him, we dont get any afterlife at all. our rejection is rewarded with literal annihilation. i dont call that fair anymore than if the monarchy had blown up the mayflower as it was leaving the harbor."

'Rejection' and 'rewarded' together seems.. Odd to me. The idea is that God/Jesus Christ's hand is constantly extended, waiting for you to grab hold. Through Him, you can traverse a metaphorical sea of sin. If you choose not to grab hold (I would say choose. I was an atheist when I was younger... I was more closed off from the possibility of God than I believed myself to be, and every militant atheist on this board exhibits the same signs that I noticed in myself), then that is your choice. Seriously, it doesn't make sense that you'd complain about this. You don't even believe in it!! Quote the Old Testament out of context all day... But the God of the Bible, more easily seen in the New Testament, is overflowing with love, mercy, and divine grace. Because of this, I have faith that God would not permanently end a nonbeliever or tremendous sinner's existence. To talk more about that, I'd need to stray from Scriptural evidence.

"please dont classify me. i dont claim myself as an atheist, theist, agnostic or gnostic. i identify as a secular humanist - god has no place in our government and humanitys interests should be first priority in any matter. thats where my irritation is coming from, placing god above people. no deity, fictional or real, is more important than the welfare and progress of our species. and i dont hold with deities demanding worship. in fact, i dont hold with worship at all. worship requires that one party be inherently inferior to another party and thats not how a healthy relationship works."

My apologies. In all fairness, you've done some classifying of me as well. Your views are nonetheless in line with an atheists on this matter. I would argue firsty, do you honestly think that it's really religious beliefs that drive politicians to push certain agendas? I more so see it as politicians taking advantage of people's religious beliefs. If not the politicians themselves, and they are simply just puppets, then the person above them is the one taking advantage. All beliefs, religious or not, will influence a person's views and ultimately their voting. Who are you to say that a person's Christian views affecting the way that they vote in regards to abortion is less valid that your secular views?

We don't have the same understanding not definition of worship. I pursue a loving relationship with Jesus Christ. My worship is love. I attend a non-denominational church with simply outstanding music and deeply moving and thought provoking sermons and discussions. I strive to grow closer to God and work on being a better person who sins deliberatey less often, admits when he's wrong, considers others' points of views, practices compassion and understanding, makes an effort to be introspective, and ultimately seeks forgiveness for my sins. That is my worship. I fail to see what's u unhealthy about that.

"Or a parent telling a child that murdering his puppy with earn their favor?

lookin' at you Abraham..."

TzarChasm... Come on man! This is what I meant by studying and understanding scripture if you wish to debate about it. Take a look at Deuteronomy 12:31
"You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods."

Okay, Abraham... God instructed him to sacrifice Isaac. Let's consider what was going on here:
1. God hates child sacrifice. The verse above is not the only that addresses it.
2. God tested Abraham to see if he would do the right thing, he did not tempt Abraham to do evil.
3. Ultimately as the SOLE GIVER of life, God has the authority to take a life. You can cry about that being evil all day, but you're limiting yourself to the idea that this life is all that there is. Do not forget, Jesus conquered death.

Abraham was instructed last minute to not sacrifice Isaac, once he submitted to God's will and was ready to do it. Isaac was not sacrificed.. This was not for God to prove to Himself that Abraham loved him, but rather to show Abraham the extend of his full love, faith, and trust in God. Not only did this demonstration show Abraham this, but also his family and future generations--it was an example of a proper relationship with God, putting God above all else. Though God has the right to all life, God would never truly ask any of us to do something like that.

Now take James 2:21-23
"Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[a] and he was called God’s friend."

"and im not really upset about anything in specific except that anyone would admire such a monstrosity. that gets to me a little bit. im not new to psychopaths and i see so many parallels...then to watch people gather once a week to adore the one in the sky while the ones i have personally met are eating three hots behind bars for doing the same crap. that doesnt make sense to me."

God is not a monstrosity not a psychopath. Please elaborate.

"no, not what i meant. ten commandments, right? ten commandments. thats pretty limited space. only ten shots at making sure your kids have m eaningful relationships and dont kill each nother and can take care of themselves. and he dedicates FOUR WHOLE SLOTS to making sure we know who the big guy is. instead of clarifying how we can be better people and friends to one another. he was clearly more concerned about being forgotten than being practical."

Okay. Just no. How familiar are you with the Bible? The Ten Commandments are part of the Old Testament Law. The OT Law, 10 Commandments included, were laws given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. They are considered, according to accurate reading of the Gospels, to be great guidelines. Your claim that there are only 10 commandments and that there is no elaboration or instruction is ultimately false. More of Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Numbers all contain additional laws and elaborations. Regardless, those are not the rules of Christianity... Any Christian who claims so is uneducated. Jesus gave the commandments: Love the Lord your God above all else. And love one another, treat one another as you would like to be treated. Jesus came to fulfill the Law... When you fulfill an obligation, you are no longer obliged to it. Same with the Law. While many components of it may be useful, Jesus' new commandments are what matters to a true Christian. This leaves no room for hatred and discrimination, despite what crappy pseudo-Christians want to say.

"prove that what i said was incorrect and i will admit my error. take your time, im in no rush."

Prove what? That the basis of Christianity isn't a talking snake and a forbidden fruit? You're kidding, right?

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
I would also like to ask a very serious and dark question for the believers in nothing and I don't mean that as any kind of jab. If there is no polarity or balance of any kind of energy as manifested by some source unbeknownst to the consciousness's held within any particular construct meaning no rules, then what stops the average person from just being "evil" (or not because there is no driving force for there to even be polarity) and maximizing their perceived existence by praying upon those that do restrict themselves by some moral code whether societally learned or naturally felt???

Without rules you could be virtually unstoppable to and within the capabilities of your intelligence. Let the Id take full control of the brain if you would. Hmm come to think of it that almost comes to close to describing some really nasty people that the folks around here like to talk about. I don't know if I like that, no, no sir I don't like it at all. reply to: Achilles92x

Agreed. The issue is most non-theists, atheists, and secular humanists on here falsely attribute the actions of people under the guise of Christianity and faith in God (or another religion) with the God and the actual teachings of Christ.

All people are susceptible to evil. Being a Christian does not mean you stop sinning, it just means that if you have true faith in Christ, you ask for forgiveness of your sins and make a conscious effort to deliberatey sin less.

While people have done awful things in the name of God, this in no way reflects anything on God. Take Hitler, for example. He referenced Christianity and God often in his speeches to appeal to the huge Christian population of Germany, but in his writings he expressed contempt for religion and his actions certainly did not reflect those of one who TRULY believes.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
If your the only being around, how do you learn from yourself?

God, you mean? Either a very magnanimous information seeker (bored with itself drifting in unknowingness) that decided to bifurcate itself to know itself better, allowing itself to split into smaller pieces to explain Itself to itself. It could also be a selfish being that by doing this would add tremendous splendor to its omnipotence and by doing so, has to then allow all deviations and accept them (Satan, Lucifer, murder). God just wants to know itself; whether by flora, insect form, fauna (human/mammal specie). Selfish or magnanimous? We are all consumed in this idealization of God Form. I think the realization ultimately is that IT EXISTS and has a plan (ulterior motive).

Yeah something pretty much like that I'm sure with some details that our minds are incapable of even fathoming and we can think of some pretty crazy ish.

How pissed would you be if you got a very literal genie (djinn) lol...just saw the commercial.a reply to: vethumanbeing