Serious Question: Why are so Many People Afraid/Unaccepting of Transgender People?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Boadicea

The flippant comment was because you WERE being flippant - with the comments about trading bosoms for shoulders and being able to give up underwires.

That wasn't being flippant. That's just the reality.

I was trying to offer up a mental exercise in a sincere attempt to help us all understand what it might feel like to be in a body that didn't match what your brain said. This is a nightmare situation for transgenders and you joked about underwires.

Okay... except your mental exercise did not match the reality... nor the subject. We're not talking about someone who changed genders overnight, with all memory of their previous gender intact. We're talking about people who have never been another gender, and therefore have no frame of reference for being another gender. That's a HUGE difference. So you never addressed my (or Ketsuko's) question: How can anyone "feel like" what they do not know?

So, I gave up on the sincere attempt and started joking back with you, thinking you would take it as such and agree that maybe being a guy wouldn't be so bad after all, and you got offended instead. Seems you can dish it out but you can't take it.

Okay, yeah, that's it. I just don't have a sense of humor... and I just can't get past... what exactly? Oh, that's right, I'm offended at the thought that I might one day turn into a man... is that it? Well, I still have all my lady parts (at least the ones I still had yesterday), so no worries, for either of us.

Seems to me that you, along with Ketsuko, are trying as hard as you can NOT to try to imagine what it would feel like to be in a body that didn't match what was in your head.

Not speaking for Ketsuko, but for me, isn't that exactly what I did? I imagined I was a man and voila! I no longer needed underwires! You see, I am a woman, I have lived a woman's life, and that includes underwires... that is what I know. I can only look at being a man from a woman's perspective. It's all I've got. I could not feel like a man if I wanted to because I have no frame of reference. I can only look at what I know as a woman that would not hold true for a man; but I cannot know as a man what would not be true for a woman.

Which brings us back to my original question: How can anyone "feel like" what they have never known?

Okay fine, if you don't want to try than don't try. But at least be honest that you aren't interested in trying to learn what life is like for a transgender.

I did try. But that is still just my imagination -- not my feelings -- much less the reality. I can imagine until the cows come home, but it's only based on what I know as a woman because I don't know anything else. But, again, that's not the position of the OP, who did not claim that he imagined himself to be a woman, he claimed that he feels like a woman.

So, again, how can anyone "feel like" what they have never known?

If you cannot or choose not to answer the question, that's fine. If you refuse to acknowledge and address my questions and points -- for whatever reason -- fine. My original response was directed to the OP, not you; and since you are not a transgender person, your answer would only represent your thoughts and imagination anyway. So fair enough.

a reply to: Boadicea

Even post op 'transgenders' don't know how it is to be the gender other than that to which they were born. You can stick a donkey tail on a pig but it doesn't make it a donkey.

There is no such thing as changing gender, fact. However much some might scream and shout about it, there isn't.

Altering superficial skin and muscle and taking hormones doesn't make anyone anymore of another gender than wearing a mask.

So no one knows how that feels, some might experience an inclination as to how it feels to be seen as another gender but not actually being another gender.

I've never been a pirate, vampire or royalty but I could formulate a pretty good idea what it would be like to have been. Just saying.a reply to: Boadicea

a reply to: honested3

I don't know. We all fear "the other" in some way.

People judge others based primarily on appearances so maybe that's something? Forcing them to confront such a contradiction in their world view.

Just be happy and keep room in your life for people who don't bring you down. That's all anyone can do whatever shape or colour they are.

For the sake of argument Ill say your right but I don't really care so long as the presentation is well put together if you catch my meaning...a reply to: theabsolutetruth

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Boadicea

Even post op 'transgenders' don't know how it is to be the gender other than that to which they were born. You can stick a donkey tail on a pig but it doesn't make it a donkey.

There is no such thing as changing gender, fact. However much some might scream and shout about it, there isn't.

Altering superficial skin and muscle and taking hormones doesn't make anyone anymore of another gender than wearing a mask.

So no one knows how that feels, some might experience an inclination as to how it feels to be seen as another gender but not actually being another gender.

And your point is................. ?

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

It was a reply to this:

Which brings us back to my original question: How can anyone "feel like" what they have never known?

Do you have a problem with other's replying?

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Boadicea

Altering superficial skin and muscle and taking hormones doesn't make anyone anymore of another gender than wearing a mask.

So no one knows how that feels, some might experience an inclination as to how it feels to be seen as another gender but not actually being another gender.

Thank you! A direct answer to a direct question -- yay!!!

That seems so obvious, but if it's obvious to us it should be obvious to others, but it's not... so I keep thinking there must be something more to it... something I'm missing. I wish the OP would respond and give me a little better insight into his experience and perspective.

What it keeps coming back to for me though, is that all this gender identity is superficial at best... and just another way for the PTB to divide-and-conquer.

a reply to: Boadicea

Exactly, it should be obvious.

'Transgenderism' is superficial, a lot of it stems from LGBT communities which are notoriously superficial.

Superficial people are the sort that avoids reality and truth, they don't like their bubble being burst.

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
I've never been a pirate, vampire or royalty but I could formulate a pretty good idea what it would be like to have been. Just saying.a reply to: Boadicea

Well, of course you can... we all can... I can imagine what it would be like to be a heart surgeon too, but would you let me operate on your heart? Or any other part of your body? I sure hope not!!!

Imagining and being are two very different things. Imagining doesn't make it so... believing doesn't make it so... claiming it doesn't make it so.

Just saying.

a reply to: Boadicea

This is a great blog post on how it feels to be a transgender. I sincerely hope you read it with an open mind and don't just dismiss it because you are against transgenders in general.

www.sophiagubb.com...

What I’ve come to understand is that we all have an internal gender. The only difference between trans and cis (non-trans) people is, cis people don’t notice it. When there is no conflict between inner and outer, it’s easy to think that the inner is the outer.

Your entitled to your opinions just like Im entitled to dismiss them the same way you do to mine. Im just asking keep the violence and hate speech at home, thats all. If you want to teach your children intolerance and bigotry thats your right. Ill just teach mine martial arts, compassion and its ok to defend yourself from those that seek to do you harm in either the physical or emotional sense.a reply to: Boadicea

I don't care if you're trans.

Same goes for what your sexual orientation is.

Same goes for your religion.

Same goes for your political beliefs.

I guess people have this expectation that others give a damn about their personal beliefs and feelings.

To directly address the OP's question. (some) People are afraid or just plain unable to accept things that challenge their worldview. I thought this was a commonly known thing.

Oh and furthermore Ill have you know that I am not superficial at all, so don't blanket policy people just because you heard something as I seriously doubt you have spent any real time with anyone from the LGBT community given your sentiments towards them as a whole.a reply to: theabsolutetruth

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Boadicea

Exactly, it should be obvious.

'Transgenderism' is superficial, a lot of it stems from LGBT communities which are notoriously superficial.

Superficial people are the sort that avoids reality and truth, they don't like their bubble being burst.

I can't really argue... but I can say that I think there's more to it. I think about the commercials for personal injury lawyers for gynecomastia -- boys growing breasts due to certain medications -- which makes me think about the hormones fed to cows that gets in our meat and dairy products, the pesticides and herbicides based on hormones that disrupt the reproductive cycles of plants and insects that we ingest... I've suffered many hormone-related illnesses. But that's how it affected me. I'm sure it affects all of us in lots of different ways. Could this be one more way? I don't know, but I wonder. And I worry. Is this all just some kind of social engineering working on several levels? An axis of evil (so to speak) of political and profit interests?

"No, you're not being poisoned and exploited... pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!!"

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
Your entitled to your opinions just like Im entitled to dismiss them the same way you do to mine. Im just asking keep the violence and hate speech at home, thats all. If you want to teach your children intolerance and bigotry thats your right. Ill just teach mine martial arts, compassion and its ok to defend yourself from those that seek to do you harm in either the physical or emotional sense.a reply to: Boadicea

Huh? I agreed with you!!! I just took it to its natural conclusion and pointed out that imagining is not being... and can hurt us.

Do what you gotta do... but you might want to learn the difference between what you "imagine" and the real world. Unlike you, I've said nothing even suggesting violence, much less hate speech. And you don't have to worry about my kids hurting yours... my kids don't need to tolerate anyone, because I've taught them to respect everyone. Even if they profoundly disagree, the most they'll say is "That's your journey -- good luck."

Go stamp your pretty little glass slipper elsewhere. For your sake, I hope it doesn't break and cut you. Because that's what happens when we ignore reality.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Boadicea

This is a great blog post on how it feels to be a transgender. I sincerely hope you read it with an open mind and don't just dismiss it because you are against transgenders in general.

www.sophiagubb.com...

What I’ve come to understand is that we all have an internal gender. The only difference between trans and cis (non-trans) people is, cis people don’t notice it. When there is no conflict between inner and outer, it’s easy to think that the inner is the outer.

Thank you -- I shall read it now....

ETA: Okay, I've read it through once, and it's an excellent article. I recommend it to anyone who wants to understand what and how the transgender thinks/feels. I can actually relate to it on a couple levels. But before I comment more, I need to read it again and think on it a ltitle. So I'm going to go mow my lawn, give it some thought, and then reply. Thank you again.

Oh honey I do combat boots and heels for your information. How did I suggest violence? By saying that I would teach my children martial arts as a means to defend themselves from those that would try to hurt them? Again for the sake of argument Ill agree with you that that comment implied violence in the name of self defense.

So am I correct in assuming your the type that would just let yourself be a victim is attacked because your a benevolent pacifist right? Ill concede to your point of not being overtly hateful but you certainly are smug and condenscending.a reply to: Boadicea

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Sounds like you are avoiding reality and truth.

In a study due to be published next month, the team ran MRI scans on the brains of 18 female-to-male transsexual people who'd had no treatment and compared them with those of 24 males and 19 females.

They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). "It's the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised," Guillamon says.

www.newscientist.com...#

Does that sound superficial to you?

a reply to: Boadicea

There probably is more to it on a bigger scale, some nefarious agenda behind it making people ashamed of the bodies they were born with and offering snake oil solutions.

The entire media circus is geared towards fickleness, superficiality and deconstruction of moral values. Traditional white European cultures are being eroded from all angles. The corruption levels are immense and seen in all sectors of society.

''Here dance in front of this mirror while we blow smoke your direction whilst we are taking over your culture and values'' it's a war on another level than physical.