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posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 06:36 PM
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i just suddenly thought of something and am still wondering if i'm right or if i'm prehaps crazy. the main feel around the forums to me is 'ignorance denied'. am i wrong in thinking we are a group of people that are skeptical and open minded. i thought the main aim of this whole website is to deny ignorance.
for example hypatheticaly speaking i could think that aliens were real, then again i could be unsure and say maybe they aren't real. that's keeping an open mind and which i think is the best way to look at the world.
i guess my question is this...why are there many religious people on the forum who are closed minded, ignorant and will prety much preach that they are right? the reason for close minded is because a lot of religious people seem to not look too much at evidence and just say there religion is right on topics like dinosaurs living 65 million years ago etc. the reason for ignorance is because the religious people on this site seem to not take in to account they could be wrong and maybe see it from another angle for once.
i'm very sorry if i have deeply offended, this is just what i was thinking and if i have offended someone then let me know. thanx. peace.




posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 06:53 PM
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i get what you're saying but when I look at the motto "Deny Ignorance" I don't take it to mean that we should deny ignorant people or ignorant ideas or theories, because that is something that is totally subjective to the reader.

I look at "deny ignorance" as denying my own personal ignorance on topics, theories and opinions that i normally wouldn't be open to.

On this site, you will find some religious zealots, but they usually just go away after they realize that the ATS members are not the sheeple or give up on trying to convert us. Most people here regardless of their faith have open discussions on religions and other topics without pressing their ideals onto others.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
i just suddenly thought of something and am still wondering if i'm right or if i'm prehaps crazy. the main feel around the forums to me is 'ignorance denied'. am i wrong in thinking we are a group of people that are skeptical and open minded. i thought the main aim of this whole website is to deny ignorance.
for example hypatheticaly speaking i could think that aliens were real, then again i could be unsure and say maybe they aren't real. that's keeping an open mind and which i think is the best way to look at the world.
i guess my question is this...why are there many religious people on the forum who are closed minded, ignorant and will prety much preach that they are right? the reason for close minded is because a lot of religious people seem to not look too much at evidence and just say there religion is right on topics like dinosaurs living 65 million years ago etc. the reason for ignorance is because the religious people on this site seem to not take in to account they could be wrong and maybe see it from another angle for once.
i'm very sorry if i have deeply offended, this is just what i was thinking and if i have offended someone then let me know. thanx. peace.



Shaunybaby you are right. There are some who join a religion and they don't look into what they actually believe. There is a difference between having an open mind and succumbing to ignorance because you feel like you don't want to believe something even though the proof is all in/on your face.

I actually look at the facts, have you. Or did you just decide to believe a Certain thing because you didn't want to submit yourself to the truth. You can't be a hypocrite and talk about Christian's who you say are closed minded, but you never earnestly saught after the truth yourself.

And when I say earnest, I mean all out, no holds barred, no predispostion search. Not the, I don't want to believe this so im going to ignore most of the statements, even if it sounds sort of true. So don't be a hypocrite now.
There are a lot of people who believe what people say regardless of the facts, just for the simple reason that they don't want to have to answer to an all knowing God. They have to live there own way because they believe it's the right way, or just because they don't want to answer to anyone but themselves.

So you're making a good point, but just don't be a hypocrite about it. Actually search the scriptures earnestly, do the research, and see how complex the design of everything is around you. Do this before you make a desicion, don't just follow something because it's popular or because you don't want to answer to God(but then again he gave you the right to choose so that's you're choice). But remember there will be reprocussions to you're choice, whether good or bad it's up to you.

[edit on 12/22/04 by Hailthekingoflights]



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:47 PM
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Actually some interesting points have been made here.

1st. shaunybaby, you seem to be concerned about the fact that religious people are on this board and they do not have an open mind in regards to "dinosaurs living 65 million years". This statement strikes me as being very 'ignorant' as you should be aware that these dating mechanisms are far from accurate and hold many assumptions. (There are many threads on this forum about this). To be totally ignorant, one must have no knowledge about anything. To be non ignorant you must know 100% regarding that subject. Non Ignorance: They have found dinosaur fossils. Ignorance: They are 65 Million years old. Somewhere in between is your statement.

2. "am i wrong in thinking we are a group of people that are skeptical and open minded." Hailthekingoflights, you bring up a good point that I have not thought about. People can Bash Christians as much as they want. Unless you have attempted to live and believe as the Bible asks you to, then you are ignorant in its message. End of Story. The Bible asks you to believe. If you can not do that then you remain ignorant of the experience. Science asks you to use your brain. Unfortunately science attempts to deny ignorance yet can't. We try to understand the origins of the world, the big bang, yet they are only theories, differing levels of ignorance. radiometric dating relies on 'ignorant assumptions'.

So the moral of the story? 100% of humans will remain ignorant about something, yet you can 'believe' you hold the truth (not ignorant) in anything that you want.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 05:57 AM
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well the dinosaur thing was just an example i probably could have come up with a better one. hailthekingoflights, i am actually searching for what i believe in but still haven't come up with the right answer for me. i look at the scientific facts, the stories about noah and the ark and start to think maybe christianity is wrong. then i find a site like this www.av1611.org... which leads me back to the conclusion that i just don't know. maybe i'll be kind of half and half and hope that if there is a god then that would be enough for him to accept me.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by shaunybaby
well the dinosaur thing was just an example i probably could have come up with a better one. hailthekingoflights, i am actually searching for what i believe in but still haven't come up with the right answer for me. i look at the scientific facts, the stories about noah and the ark and start to think maybe christianity is wrong. then i find a site like this www.av1611.org... which leads me back to the conclusion that i just don't know. maybe i'll be kind of half and half and hope that if there is a god then that would be enough for him to accept me.


It sounds like you are putting your foot in the water and are too scared to jump in. There is no harm in believing the Bible. In it's basic form, Christ has some good tips on living a healthy life style. You at least deserve to give it a try.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 08:18 AM
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This thread might interest you. Deals with creationism and why some people actually believe in it...

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 08:31 AM
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foot in the water...too scared to jump? well i think if i am meant to live my life as a christian then god will show me a sign of some sort. he would show me something so devine that i would have no hesitation but to believe. if you say but that's not what god is meant to do, then if that's true then i am not meant to be christian. it's not a matter of being too scared to take a leap of faith, i just plain and simply don't know. at the moment i am more persuaded to the science theories rather than the biblical ones.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 08:41 AM
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Why, if you are searching, don't you try the basic teachings, which all religions hold dear.

1) a belief in a creator
2) goodwill to your fellow people
3) tolerance
4) be honest, truthful and of high morals

The rest will develope as you become exposed to it.

Religion is all around us, at all times, there is nothing to say that some who finds their faith at aged 2 is any better of than someone who finds it aged 99.

Don't rush as you will cause frustration and may mislead yourself.

Be human first, then be a good human, and then your style of life will find your faith.

One of the biggest mis-conception in religion, IMHO, is that a faith does not find the individual, there will not me divine intervention for evey person, it is a personal journey of which you will find where you belong and you alone.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 09:32 AM
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Shaunybaby, I understand what you are trying to say. Unfortunately, it isn't limited to just the religious. I could name a number of members on here who are so closed-minded on their beliefs as to call others who doubt them "ignorant" or "idiot" or other such drivel. I'm not sure which type of closed-minded person is worse. At least the religious ones don't usually resort to insult, they just fall back on their God and close their eyes and ears.

On this board you will find near-illiterates, religious zealots, paranoiacs, fools, feminists, chauvenists, and madmen. You will come across people whose idea of proof is that they said something is the way it is. You will find people whom logic has about as much effect as a drop of water flung at the sun. You will find people whose view of the world is so grim or insane that you wonder how they can get by another day without killing themselves. You will come across people who are so obsessed with their viewpoint they are incapable of even imagining what it would be like if they are wrong...

...in a way, it's a lot like real life.

All things considered though, the majority of the people here are cool, intelligent, and apparently mentally stable. I've had many wonderful discussions with interesting people from across the globe on subjects ranging from ghosts to fighter jets. I've made some new acquaintances and occasionally learned something new. As long as you keep an open mind, then you will always be able to filter out the ones who do not.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 11:36 AM
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Was a time when people needed to prove themselves, their abilities, their relevant worth. This is holding less and less true today, especially with technology like the Internet, where you can create yourself to be whatever you wish.

In this environment, its too easy to get carried away with yourself and believe you are right because you say so. Religious fervor is an extremely dangerous movement, especially when coupled with Politics.
Hold a mirror up for people to see what they are, how they behave, and to justify their beliefs if they attempt to force it upon you. And, that can be done only if you educate yourself so you can deny their Ignorance.



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