Call it 'gender fluidity': Schools to teach kids there's no such thing as boys or girls

originally posted by: spirit_horse

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: Ghost147
A girl playing with cars, or a boy playing with dolls does not mean they identify with the other gender. There goes that stereotyping again...

They could actually cause a lot of psychological harm by causing kids to suppress thoughts and behaviors for fear others may question their gender... because those are considered 'male' traits or 'female' traits. Just let them be. Stop with the labels!!!

I don't think that is what ghost147 meant. That was out of context.
Also, my mom tells me my favorite toy when I was 1 and could find out of a pile when asked was GI Joe with the beard. She said I got bored with dolls easily, though I loved to dress the dolls and decorate a dollhouse, I didn't play after I set the thing up with furniture and people, that I was done. I liked to have fancy dolls, but decorating my room, not for a tea party. I liked cars, plastic car track sets. But generally, I wanted to be outside climbing things and flirting with boys, as young as 8 years old and I wanted to play with the toys they had. Even though I was a 'tomboy', she knew she would have difficulty keeping me away from boys lol

My cousin is homosexual. While my other cousins and I were riding motorbikes, camping, etc. he would go around with a towel on his head from doing his hair, wearing high heels, etc. He even played with Barbie dolls when very young. It was obvious to all of us and no surprise he went the way he did. So, your comment is well understood. And I have no issues with it, No one tried to force him to change his feelings or direction in life.

Being that I am a straight female and liked boys toys more and your cousin is a homosexual male and liked female toys more and wore high heels is not quite the same. But it shows that choice of toys shouldn't really mean anything.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth
So, you stick with the old meaning for gay?

The way words are used changes. If you want to stick to old usage, fine. But don't be silly about it.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: reldra

My point exactly. My wife is bisexual, she is more attracted to women than she is men (physically), but cannot connect to them generally (from a psychological perspective).

Spectrum, spectrum, spectrum.

If you are a male, many males on this site will be extremely jealous lol

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Just to clarify, the thread is about ''gender fluidity'', which biologically doesn't exist, rather than ''sexual orientation fluidity'' which is another matter.

I am female (biologically from birth, I have XX chromosomes) and heterosexual, therefore my gender is female and my sexual orientation is heterosexual.

Biological gender is chromosomal. Therefore male /female is a biological fact.

Sexual orientation/ identity isn't, it is a thing of the mind.

NO, it is NOT a thing of the mind.

a reply to: Phage

The thread is a mess of people misreading ''gender'' as ''sexual orientation'', it needs clarifying, and a basic broad dictionary definition is not sufficient.

Recognising people being confused about scientific terms is not validation of name calling and suggestions of being unaware of current informal word usage. Now who is being silly?

a reply to: Phage

I understand that! My parents have some very strict beliefs that are wrong in my opinion. However, even though I disagree with some of them, I really did not like some self serving teacher try and tell me they are wrong and I am right! Right to you may not be right to someone else. I think we all learned a whole lot more living in society and working in interesting fields. Even ATS has changed my views a lot! Hell, even you changed my views on certain things Phage!

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

The thread is a mess of people misreading ''gender'' as ''sexual orientation'', it needs clarifying, and a basic broad dictionary definition is not sufficient.

What does transgenderism have to do with sexual orientation? Are transexuals necessarily homosexuals?

Recognising people being confused about scientific terms is not validation of name calling and suggestions of being unaware of current informal word usage.

This is not a scientific discussion. This is a discussion about how people view their own and others' sexuality. "Informal word usage" is often called language. Language changes. Often when things which have not been openly discussed become so.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Phage

The thread is a mess of people misreading ''gender'' as ''sexual orientation'', it needs clarifying, and a basic broad dictionary definition is not sufficient.

Recognising people being confused about scientific terms is not validation of name calling and suggestions of being unaware of current informal word usage. Now who is being silly?

The title has 'gender fluidity' in it. This 'gender fluidity' is about how people identify themselves via gender and/or sexuality or BOTH. It is not about going down to the DNA level.

a reply to: spirit_horse

However, even though I disagree with some of them, I really did not like some self serving teacher try and tell me they are wrong and I am right!

You consider it self serving to tell people that what they believe can be harmful to others? Or is it only when they say that about something you believe? If your beliefs are that strong, how can what anyone says about them be a threat?

The sourced article for the communist agenda in the OP is 50's red scare propaganda. It was an opinion of a supposed geopolitical theorist extolling on the dangers of Communism without any sourced facts, just assumption.

Source

The communist societies that I can think of all condemn and attempt to outlaw homosexuality or any sort of gender fluidity as that goes against the homogenization of the populace that the leaders aim for.

I don't see anything wrong with educating our youth on the different potentials within all of us. People that disagree with this, in my opinion, are just afraid of knowledge and afraid of change.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147
I have yet to see it proven that sexual orientation is a biological trait.

Do you mind responding this this post I made? Not sure if you missed it or not. I'd like to know your view on it.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: ketsuko

Actually, I think I had this discussion with you on another topic. Here's some evidence for you though:

~ PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects

~ Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity

~ Heterosexual and homosexual behaviour and vocalisations in captive female koalas (Phascolarctos cinereus)

~ There are more than 1500 species that have been known to exhibit Homosexual Behavior

~ Certain species of whiptail lizards have all-female or nearly all-female populations. These lizards reproduce by parthenogenesis, and research has shown that simulated mating behavior increases fertility.

~ Some species exhibit sequential hermaphroditism. In these species, such as many species of coral reef fishes, sex change is a normal anatomical process. Clownfish, wrasses, moray eels, gobies and other fish species are known to change sex, including reproductive functions.

I could post Thousands more peer reviewed scientific articles on the subject if you'd like. Really, only one of these was necessary to prove my point, but I have a feeling you need a bit more convincing.

a reply to: reldra

Like I said, I don't have a problem with what you described about Johnny or whatever. That is teaching anti-discrimination/anti-hate. Teaching girls are not 100% girls and boys are not 100% boys and it is normal and healthy to be a homosexual is something I disagree with. My faith is not based on your beliefs. I don't need to talk to my God about it either. It is canonical law of the faith. However, I am not teaching that in grade school or law school. But, if they teach what is described in the article I will have a problem with it. And when Islam is the dominant religion in the US then you will also have a problem you never expected to live through. Just take a look at what goes on in their countries.

a reply to: spirit_horse
Its a brave new world out there. The up and coming generations may just be completely different then this or past generations, the disconnected is going to be huge and none of these people are helping none. But saying all that, this is beyond insanity its unsanity. How many ways can this go wrong? And how many times in the past has good intentions gone wrong? To many to count.

But realistically you can conditions and teach a young child to think he is a reincarnated turtle in a human body if you wanted to. I dont see whats the problem with teaching kids about different genders and how some people may be different, but to say that there is no one set gender or another is plain detrimental and on par with dementia.

Lets teach kids that other people are different and if they are like that its OK. But lets not beat it into there head that there is no one geneder or that gender is a social construct, because its just not true, social constructs in this case merely molded themselves after gender roles in our past ecosystems, not the other way around. So if your born with a penis your a boy, if your born with a vagina your a girl.

Why blur the lines between such obvious truths, if some people feel different fine thats OK. But that should be on a individual basis and nothing more. And even transgender people of all I ran into are not all they say, nobody is. I think for the most part and there was a study around here which showed that of the transgender community its mostly those who change from female to male which have more problems and generally commit suicide.

On the other scale I think most males who convert to females have a lot less suicide rate, and some of them really those who achieve a more level of femininity really do get ahead of themselves, especially when they find out how easy it is to have males at there attention. Some are literally like a kid in a candy store. But that aside as its just a function of our current societal model, and lets face it in some departments if your female you would have it a much more easier. Especially if your blonde it seems.

But anyways. This whole thing is stupid, and has so much potential to messing with growing minds heads. I am all for teaching kids about different genders and different peoples, but lets not blur the line between male and female to much because the result will not be pretty. I mean kids today are already confused as hell, so ya, and adding more to that and making it institutionalized state sanctioned is not going to help. In fact nothing so far in all of history which was forced to become institutionalized state sanctioned behavior or construct or conditioning has really never ever done any good. In most cases its the opposite.

a reply to: MoreCowbell
No. He stayed home and did all that while the rest of us boys went raising cain! ...

a reply to: reldra

It is at DNA level when it denies the existence of biological male and female, which are chromosomal, biological facts.

a reply to: spirit_horse

And when Islam is the dominant religion in the US then you will also have a problem you never expected to live through. Just take a look at what goes on in their countries.

If kids are taught that everyone is different in more ways than they can imagine (that everyone can't be put into one box or another), that won't happen. It is intolerance of difference that is a problem, not understanding difference.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

It is at DNA level when it denies the existence of biological male and female, which are chromosomal, biological facts.

The discussion is about factors beyond biological male and female. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be having it.

a reply to: Phage

I never said it was a threat. Often teacher state opinions and beliefs. Their opinion that they were the ones that were right and my parents were wrong was just that, an opinion!

a reply to: spirit_horse

I never said it was a threat.

Then why the concern?

Their opinion that they were the ones that were right and my parents were wrong was just that, an opinion!

Yup. Many of my Dad's opinions were absolutely wrong and I'm glad I learned better.
Like the opinion that other races are inferior to mine. That sort of opinion?
The opinion that everyone has the same feelings about themselves sexually? That sort of opinion?
How, again, is that self serving?

a reply to: Phage

Everyone has opinions. You don't think a teacher thinking they are always right and everyone else is wrong is not self serving? I will let it go as my opinion...