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NEWS: Teen Banned From Prom For Wearing Confederate Dress Sues School District

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posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 06:20 PM
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A teenage who was barred from he prom for wearing a dress made out of large Confederate battle flag is suing he school district. The suit claims that her 1st amendment rights of free speech were violated as well as her right to celebrate her cultural heritage. Now 19, she is seeing damages over $50,000 dollars. In an interview outside of the courthouse she acknowledge that some may find the flag offensive, but she still felt she had a right to wear it.

 



story.news.yahoo.com LEXINGTON, Ky. - A teenager is suing her school district for barring her from the prom last spring because she was wearing a dress styled as a large Confederate battle flag.

The lawsuit filed Monday in U.S. District Court claims the Greenup County district and administrators violated Jacqueline Duty's First Amendment right to free speech and her right to celebrate her heritage at predominantly white Russell High School's prom May 1. She also is suing for defamation, false imprisonment and assault.

"Her only dance for her senior prom was on the sidewalk to a song playing on the radio," said her lawyer, Earl-Ray Neal.

Duty, 19, is seeking actual and punitive damages in excess of $50,000.

She said she worked on the design for the dress for four years, though she acknowledged that some might find the Confederate flag offensive.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Well, while I find it in poor taste, I have to agree that this may have been a violation of her rights to free speech. However, it does need balance. What if next year a person want to wear KKK robes? Would denying them entry to the prom be a free speech issue? The ACLU has gone to bat for the klans right to protest, but what of our schools. In California, the schools can dictate a dress code or even uniforms. This is to combat gang violence and the like. This is an interesting case to say the least.


[edit on 12/22/04 by FredT]




posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 06:49 PM
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It's about time the Confederate Battle Flag was rescued and rehabilitated from those who commandeered it use for racist causes. As ridiculous as it may seem to wear something that must be as tacky and gaudy as a prom dress made out of a flag or as disrespectful of the flag as it may be to turn it into dress, it will take people like this who will fight for the cause.

To boil the South down to one cause, slavery and racism, is a conspiracy that has persisted for too long. The chaos after the Civil War and the oppression of Reconstruction created much of the racial division suffered in the South. Had the Yankees kept their mitts of the South, slavery would have died of its own accord and the racial discord of the twentieth century would problably never occurred.

The Confederate Battle Flag stands for much of what is right about America and there are courageous blacks who understand that and support its preservation as a symbol of America's history.

www.flagwire.com...

www.southerncaucus.org...

www.sierratimes.com...

www.sierratimes.com...

www.sierratimes.com...

www.sierratimes.com...

www.sierratimes.com...

www.sierratimes.com...

[edit on 04/12/22 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 06:53 PM
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Grady,

Regardless of incorrect interpretation, the Confederate flag is viewed by most outside of the South to be a racist symbol. Right or Wrong, that is the preception. How exactly is she going to change the perceptions of people outside of her community? I agree with her first ammendment rights on the issue, but I still do not like the symbology of it.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
I have to agree that this may have been a violation of her rights to free speech. However, it does need balance. What if next year a person want to wear KKK robes? Would denying them entry to the prom be a free speech issue?

I'd say so. Although, a school does have a responsibility to regulate things like that. They can prevent you from wearing things that are allowed in the real world, and they can silence you during lessons and whatnot, so perhaps the school is covered under this. Its not really a violation of her 1st ammendment rights, becuase that ammendment doesn't guarentee a person the right to actually be in any particular place when exercising free speech. THey wouuldn't let her in, they didn't take off her dress. Probably the only prom dress not taken off that evening.


In California, the schools can dictate a dress code or even uniforms. This is to combat gang violence and the like. This is an interesting case to say the least.

I think that, since schools are in loco parentis there can be an expectation that there are restrictions not put on normal societies. Schools are a place where students are supposed to be educated, that outweighs lots of other considerations.

Anyway, the little bastard should probably have been locked up for wearing the flag of those insolent traitors anyway.


GP
The chaos after the Civil War and the oppression of Reconstruction created much of the racial division suffered in the South

The only reason for the reconstruction and military occupation was becase the southern states, even after having been defeated in the field, continued to try to oppress blacks in their borders. The consitution should've been enough, then the lead up to the civil war, and then the civil war itself, and they still tried to put blacks back in their place? Hell, even with reconstruction, thy went back to jim crow, segregation and there wasn't a full civil rights movement until nearly a hundred years after the civil war.

But, agian, outside of that, and there were certianly non confederate slave states, the confederacy was a rebellion. An attempt to destroy the union, and the people that lead it were traitors to the constitution and the republic. They should've been locked up forever and the stars and bars should've been banned outright, its the symbol of lying scumbags, not glorious patriots.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:06 PM
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here's my take on this:

you can wear representations of flags (confederate or whatever) on your clothes, but I do not agree with using an actual flag to make a dress or any other garment.

IMO there's a difference between the representation and what you can do with it vs an actual flag

hope she loses her case


[edit on 12-22-2004 by worldwatcher]



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:08 PM
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Well, the reason you don't like the symbology of it is because you don't understand the symbology of it. One thing you should understand is that as a Southerner, I never felt any attachment to the South as an entity nor was I ever into the accouterments of the Civil War. The only time I have ever displayed a Confederate Battle Flag was on my Dixie Drill Platoon uniform when I was an JROTC student at Fair Park High School in Shreveport, LA, in 1966.

But, the fact remains that the assault on the Confederate Flag is in itself racist and revisionist. I would have never cared one way or another about the flag if there were not a conspiracy to suppress it. It is a cause that needs to be defended by sane people of every race and ethnicity, because it is a fundamental issue of regional and ethnic pride and history.

It should also be pointed out that she was not wearing a dress made out of a large Confederate Flag, but a dress styled as a large Confederate Flag.



A teenager is suing her school district for barring her from the prom last spring because she was wearing a dress styled as a large Confederate battle flag.

Yahoo! News



[edit on 04/12/22 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Well, the reason you don't like the symbology of it is because you don't understand the symbology of it.


I agree that my understanding of the symbology and your are different Grady, and I am willing to accept that alot of "taint" assosiated with the flag is a matter of its portrayal in history books and the like. However, that being said, the preception of the flag where I live is that of racism. That opinion is not confined to the liberal airs of Northern California mind you, but in many areas of the States. In that context, its understand that many people have an issue with it.

Edit: Right or wrong, perception is often reality, nor can the provacative act of some would be prom queen stem the tide. While she spouts off in front of the cameras about heratige and beliefs, it was more likely her grab at 15 minutes of fame,

[edit on 12/22/04 by FredT]



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:23 PM
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'Throw that rebel in irons and drop her in a cell'.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
Right or wrong, perception is often reality, nor can the provacative act of some would be prom queen stem the tide. While she spouts off in front of the cameras about heratige and beliefs, it was more likely her grab at 15 minutes of fame,


This particular incident is not the issue. The issue is, Are we going to allow racists and agitators to destroy the legitimate heritage of the South? No doubt she was looking for a fight and I have no doubt that the gown was atrocious from a fashion standpoint, but when I graduated from Tulane University in 1995, the school allowed the black students to where Kenti (sp?) cloths over their Master's hoods.

Wearing such apparel is usually limited to those who belong to certain organizations of academic excellence, but in this case it was a pure matter of race. If I hadn't already been exhausted by the PC attacks on me throughout the eighteen month program, I would have fashioned a sash resembling the Battle Flag and worn it myself.

It's this kind of crap that chaps my behind.


[edit on 04/12/22 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:30 PM
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Here we go with bash the rebel flag again. I see clothing displaying all different types of flags, big deal.
Nygdan, you said "Anyway, the little bastard should probably have been locked up for wearing the flag of those insolent traitors anyway. "
You express deep racism issues, you should evaluate your feelings. Way out of line, man.

I am of Confederate decent, my intials are CSA ( Confederate Sons of America)- and my ancestors were killed by yankees, including one(ggrandfather) who was shot in the back by a union soldier.
But I do not care if the union flag is wore as clothing. If the girl was proud enough to wear it, let her display the obvious pride that she has in her ancestry.
I don't go around complaing cause most kids dress like little gangbangers in the city, with their pants falling off, hoods, etc.
I give her a high 5 for displaying her pride, and I hope she wins!



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 07:33 PM
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So what would we have to believe next? That our very stars and stipes are also racist? I hope and pray that is not their aim. These fund raising groups could better spend their money getting crack out of poor neighborhoods, but they would rather exercise their will attacking free speech. It is only a piece of cloth. On this anniversary of the Gettysberg address, one should remember it was a conciliatory note, that made it clear that "New birth of freedom," was for both sides. Burying the Confederate flag buries that heritage of conciliation, as much as to do so would remind us history is not confined to any one period in time, such as the 1950's. It may remain as a protest against excessive government power on any level, should people so choose. It is their right.

We also may duly note that ancestors of black confederate soldiers may choose to consider it their heritage as in an earlier post here. "We should not judge a person by the color of their skin, but the content of their character." Martin Luther King made a very conclusive thought. By the same token why make a flag, or any other matter of appearences one's judgment? It is the content of the character of the people who display what they choose that is far more important than scattered pair association reflexes, and other Pavlovian reactions.

[edit on 22-12-2004 by SkipShipman]



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 08:28 PM
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Heres my 2 cents. I don't really think that she should have made a dress of the confederate flag because thats disrespectful to a flag. It has something to do with flag respect


(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

www.usflag.org...

Anyhow I don't think that she should have worn the dress because the Confederacy was formed because the south wanted to keep slavery. Anyhow I don't think that she should have been banned. Maybe if she just put something over the dress or changed dress it wouldn't have been such a big deal. But I have noticed that a lot of people seem to be cracking down on the Confederate flag. In my elementary school a kid got in a bunch of trouble just for drawing the flag, thats taking things to far.

Anyhow it doesn't matter because $50,000 over prom is just crazy. This just sounds frivolous, suing because she didn't get to go to her prom night.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 08:34 PM
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if it makes some people in the school feel uneasy then I feel the principal has a right to tell her to change. why would anyone want to wear that in public anyway??



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Journey
"Anyway, the little bastard should probably have been locked up for wearing the flag of those insolent traitors anyway. "
You express deep racism issues, you should evaluate your feelings. Way out of line, man.

Explain how it is racist. The confederates were traitors, irrespective of race or ethnicity. Back up you accusation.


I am of Confederate decent, my intials are CSA ( Confederate Sons of America)- and my ancestors were killed by yankees, including one(ggrandfather) who was shot in the back by a union soldier.

How many 'yankees' did he kill in his traitorous acts?


But I do not care if the union flag is wore as clothing.

Its the american flag, not the 'union' flag.


I don't go around complaing cause most kids dress like little gangbangers in the city, with their pants falling off, hoods, etc.

Why didn't you complain? Since you obviously didn't liek it? But no one is complaining about the confed flag because of taste. I think it should've been outlawed because its the flag of a bunch of vile liars and traitors.


I give her a high 5 for displaying her pride, and I hope she wins!

I think its unlikely. I am not so certain that the schools are not allowed to prevent people from wearing certain things. Especially since many public schools are starting to enforce uniforms.

This, GP and others, is an oppurtunity to 'save' the stars and bars. If its publically displayed, and made out as an issue of free speech, but suppressed merely because its offensive, then they have a point, and it would be something like what those scum traitor confederates wanted, liberty and personal freedom against overbearing federalism. But its doubtful that it will end up that way, because most of the people that would most vocally support the flag would be the type that you don't want the Stars n Bars associated with.



skipshipman
So what would we have to believe next? That our very stars and stipes are also racist?

Fortunately the Stars and Stripes are used by enough non racist goons to prevent it from being associated with them. Apparently, the same cannot be said for the Stars and Bars.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 09:13 PM
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From the beginning of your post, Nygdan, when you said bastard, I knew then that you did not what you were talking about.
It is people like you that continue stir the pot of hatred. When we all should be adult enough to know that none of us alive today are responcible for the actions of our forefathers. And adult enough to not judge others for their beliefs, whether their beliefs cling to the past or leap to the future.
But there are some who will continue to dwell on the past, instead of focusing on the future.
Fact is that every flag flown has horror behind it, in some way.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 09:14 PM
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Nygdan says:

"But, agian, outside of that, and there were certianly non confederate slave states, the confederacy was a rebellion. An attempt to destroy the union, and the people that lead it were traitors to the constitution and the republic. They should've been locked up forever and the stars and bars should've been banned outright, its the symbol of lying scumbags, not glorious patriots."

|which is exactly what would have happened to those other filthy traitorous sleazebuckets -- Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, et. al. -- had their rebellion failed.

Ever notice how the winners write the history and the losers write the songs?



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Explain how it is racist. The confederates were traitors, irrespective of race or ethnicity. Back up you accusation.


You should not speak of thing of which you have no knowledge. The Confederate States of America was formed of the States who lawfully seceded from the Union over legitimate matters regarding State sovereignty and the right to trade with Europe without oppressive tariffs, among other things.

The South went to war with the Union to defend the integrity of the Confederacy. The Southerners were not traitors by any stretch of the imagination and this kind of ignorant thinking has engendered a century or more of discrimination and oppression against Southerners and the South. The South has consistently led the nation in those who serve their nation in a time of war and when the War of Northern Aggression was ended both Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis advised Southerners to give their allegiance to the Union.

I have heard other Northerners make such statement of absolute ignorance of American history and I can only suggest that you spend a few evenings studying the matter so that you don't embarrass yourself further in the company of educated folk.


Originally posted by Nygdan
scum traitor confederates


This kind of talk not only identifies you as ignorant and assinine, but will get your brain-housing group swiftly ventilated. I wish you could say that to my face just once.


[edit on 04/12/22 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Anyway, the little bastard should probably have been locked up for wearing the flag of those insolent traitors anyway.

The only reason for the reconstruction and military occupation was becase the southern states, even after having been defeated in the field, continued to try to oppress blacks in their borders. The consitution should've been enough, then the lead up to the civil war, and then the civil war itself, and they still tried to put blacks back in their place? Hell, even with reconstruction, thy went back to jim crow, segregation and there wasn't a full civil rights movement until nearly a hundred years after the civil war.

But, agian, outside of that, and there were certianly non confederate slave states, the confederacy was a rebellion. An attempt to destroy the union, and the people that lead it were traitors to the constitution and the republic. They should've been locked up forever and the stars and bars should've been banned outright, its the symbol of lying scumbags, not glorious patriots.


I don't know what country you learned your history in, but what you justy expressed is not only completely false, but poorly reasoned and obviously not well thought out. You win the "Promotes Ignorance" award today Nygdan.

I suggest that BEFORE you open your pie hole again, you do some real research into American History and not pay attention to those modern Apologist Re-Historians who demand that the past live up to their personal expectations and beliefs.

Note: I had to prove to a Ph.D. that Blacks owned Blacks in the south, he refused to believe it as it was against his personal belief that a Brother could own a Brother. Read on!

The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.

The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).

In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them. Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2).



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 10:49 PM
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I suggest that everyone participating in this thread calm down and quit the snippiness, k?
Please take note of the message at the top of your screen in this forum.
I won't ask nicely again.



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by Journey

From the beginning of your post, Nygdan, when you said bastard, I knew then that you did not what you were talking about.

Care to elaborate why 'bastard' was so revealing?

It is people like you that continue stir the pot of hatred.

Yes, thats what I do on this board and this world, spread hatred.


When we all should be adult enough to know that none of us alive today are responcible for the actions of our forefathers.

I'm only being half serious in saying that she should be thrown in jail. Obviously its not illegal to own and display the Stars and Bars. I'm simply making the point that the confederates, for all their intentions, were traitors to the United States, and why should their fal be incorporated into anything? Be it a dress or another state's flag?


And adult enough to not judge others for their beliefs, whether their beliefs cling to the past or leap to the future.

An adult will judge a person largely on that person's beleifs.


Fact is that every flag flown has horror behind it, in some way.

Have you even read what I've been writting? I haven't said that the confederate flag should be banned because of slavery.

of the street
which is exactly what would have happened to those other filthy traitorous sleazebuckets -- Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, et. al. -- had their rebellion failed.

Precisely. The Stars and Stripes, had the american rebellion failed, shouldn't and wouldn't have been permited to fly in the flags of the imperial crown colonies.

Ever notice how the winners write the history and the losers write the songs?

If they had won then things migth've been different. But they rebelled and made war against the United States, and I can't see any reason to honour them for that.


GP
The Confederate States of America was formed of the States who lawfully seceded from the Union

Secession is illegal. Disputes between states are required to be settled in congress. The soon-to-be confederate states couldn't accomplish that, and instead their governments decided that they could just leave the union and not suffer any consequences. The idea is incorrect. States can't secede from the Union any more than towns can, or individuals can. At least, not unilaterally.


over legitimate matters

I understand what their concerns were. Hardly excuses insurrection and acts of treason.

The Southerners were not traitors

Much of their leadership swore to uphold the consitution and defend the United States. Instead they took up arms and tried to invade and destroy it. Its the definition of treason.


this kind of ignorant thinking has engendered a century or more of discrimination and oppression against Southerners and the South.

I see no reason why the treasonous acts of foolish men over a hundred years ago need be held against people nowadays.


and when the War of Northern Aggression was

Ah yes, the old colloquialism. Not the Civil War right? Just northern yankee republican agression. Notice that the northerners don't call it 'The War against Southern Insurrection'.


ended both Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis advised Southerners to give their allegiance to the Union

How nice of them. And if things didn't go their way again then they could just switch allegiances again then?


so that you don't embarrass yourself further in the company of educated folk

I am familiar with the Civil War, familiar enough to not pretend that it wasn't treason.


I wish you could say that to my face just once.

What the hell are you going to do about it eh? Did I offend you and your 'southern sensibilities'? Well why don't you cry about it then.

In all honesty during most of this I was being hyperbolic to make a point, the leaders and generals of the confederacy were traitors. They should've been executed for treason and their flag should've been banned publically, not incorporated into the flags of states. The broke their sworn oaths and took up arms against the United States, for their parochial interests. If a state did it now over the last two eleections are you saying that they'd be paragons of liberty?


chuck stevenson
but what you justy expressed is not only completely false, but poorly reasoned and obviously not well thought out

If I am in error then point it out. The fact that you jump into some irrelevant discussion about black slave owners indicates that you have not been paying attention. I am well aware of the fact that some northern states that stayed in the union were slave holding states, that the south didn't cecede over slavery (tho it was an important part of the context), and that the Civil War didn't end slavery. I have not and am not criticising the confederacy for being slave mongers and racists. There were and still are racists in the norht, south, east and west today, then, and in all likelyhood in the future.I am specifically criticising the confederates for illegally breaking up the union, forgoing their oaths to protect it and taking arms up against it and even for refusing to work out a solution in congress with the rest of the union. Now, of course, it takes two to negotiate and the other states weren't being cooperative. They were being down right mean. But that hardly means that the southern states, or any state, gets to leave the union. The Constitution established Congress as the 'court' in which inter-state matters are settled. The Southerners found that they couldn't get what they wanted, so their state legislatures decided to rebel. That makes them 'rebels', that makes them traitors. THose 'evil overbearing' unionists were benevolent enough to not execute the criminal leaders of the rebellion nor the illegal fighting soldiers of the confederate militias because they realized that it would do more harm than good and that reconciliation of some sorts was needed to restore the union. Thats why the stars and bars are allowed to be displayed. I am merely suggesting that it probably should'nt have been allowed to displayed, anymore than the red flag of internationalist radical class-war demanding communism should be allowed to be displayed or any symbols of the 'Destroy America' group. Its probably wisest to allow these sorts of things to be displayed, rather than forcing those movements underground, and I understand that most southerners aren't calling for the destruction of the united states when they wave that orange and blue monstrosity, but I see no more reason to 'accept' it quitely anymore than flag burning, where the flag burners insist that they are not calling for radical destruction of the US.



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