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Out of the mouths of babes...

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posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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This isn't really a rant... more just a... what?... lament maybe? (But kind of a rant because life has been more than a little stressful and I really need to vent some pent up angst!)

As I sat with my daughter in the emergency room recently, I could hear a mom in the next cubicle pleading with her little girl to drink something (I'm not sure what) to make her "feel better." The little girl was refusing... quite adamantly. The mom was getting more and more frustrated and finally asked her, "Why are you being so difficult?" The little girl answered, "Why are you making me do something I don't want to do?"

So simple and so profound.

It occurred to me that the only reason we do not have peace is because of people who insist on forcing their will on someone else... and we will not have peace as long as people continue to force their will on others. It really is that simple. Pretty much every problem we have can be traced back to someone forcing their will on others.... and those others fighting for their inherent natural rights to live and provide for themselves according to their own will. AKA Freedom. It's a vicious never-ending circle. As long as people keep trying to force their will on others, the others will fight and retaliate and rebel.

The mom eventually promised the little girl ice cream if she would drink it. She did -- and hated every bit of it! But she apparently wanted the ice cream more. I have to admit, I loved the simple truth involved. Even a little girl can exercise her natural right to say "no," and no one could make her do it. Instead, they had to make her want to drink it. They used ice cream. We use brute force at the point of a gun under color of law; if offenders are lucky, we just take their freedom; but we're now at the point that any real or imagined suspicious activity is subject to an instant death penalty by a cop given the power of judge, jury and executioner....

Shame on us. Shame on everyone who wants to force their will on others in whatever way and for whatever reason... and shame on everyone else for not fighting to stop it. Me included. We should know better. We should be doing better. As individuals and as a society. How did we go so wrong? How do we fix it???

On the plus side, I expect that little girl to do amazing things in her life. I was very impressed at her reasoning and her vocabulary and her ability to express herself. It was a wonder to behold!




posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

I would call it a truism. Violence, coercion and manipulation are the nature of administration and control.

For individuals, it has limited application because resistance can be too great to overcome making transparent negotiation the far better option.

Its legislative cousin has no such compunction to employ monopolistic violence to great effect.

Therefore, when someone says that they want to "do something" about some perceived transgression or undesirable state of being, whether they understand it or not, they mean they want to use violence.
edit on 15-5-2015 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

nice story haha...ice cream does solve so much!

same with kids and eating...i was taught to eat everything on my plate...but kids know when they are full...they feel it and stop eating..but we condition them to not waste any food and eat everything you take..which is a mentality before refrigeration haha... perhaps this has helped lead to obesity.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Maybe mother knows best.

Maybe the child needed to be hydrated because she was ill.

Maybe the child was so spoiled she needed to be coerced into doing something she didn't like to help with her sickness. Who knows.

You're a parent-would you take no for an answer if you wanted the best for your daughter but she didn't? I wouldn't. I had to drink horrible tasting medicine when I was a child- I wanted to say no but in hindsight I realized that all the old sayings like 'cruel to be kind' or 'the harshest hand is the kindest' rings true.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea




Shame on us. Shame on everyone who wants to force their will on others in whatever way and for whatever reason...


I'm sorry but I feel like this whole thought of yours ignores everything that makes any sense and is childish.

So a child molester who "just loves children" should not be forced to stop.

A murderer feels he has the right to set people free early.

A child who will not get well without medication should be allowed to say no?



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Boadicea

I would call it a truism. Violence, coercion and manipulation are the nature of administration and control....Therefore, when someone says that they want to "do something" about some perceived transgression or undesirable state of being, whether they understand it or not, they mean they want to use violence.


Yes, exactly. Too often we don't see it in those terms (me included) -- and too often people do see it in those terms and think it's okay.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Boadicea

I would call it a truism. Violence, coercion and manipulation are the nature of administration and control....Therefore, when someone says that they want to "do something" about some perceived transgression or undesirable state of being, whether they understand it or not, they mean they want to use violence.


Yes, exactly. Too often we don't see it in those terms (me included) -- and too often people do see it in those terms and think it's okay.


So when you want something protected or you want your own belonging safe what do you do? Ask nicely?



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:20 PM
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originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: Boadicea

nice story haha...ice cream does solve so much!

same with kids and eating...i was taught to eat everything on my plate...but kids know when they are full...they feel it and stop eating..but we condition them to not waste any food and eat everything you take..which is a mentality before refrigeration haha... perhaps this has helped lead to obesity.


Yes, ice cream is magical!

When my son was about 4 or 5, I told him he wouldn't get dessert if he didn't eat all his dinner... he told me, "If I eat everything I won't be hungry for dessert. I didn't ask for so much food. You gave me too much!" He had it figured out.

I started letting him decide how much food he got after that... even how much of each, as long as he ate a little bit of everything. Of course, a few years later, that wasn't a problem when he became the bottomless pit!



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: Boadicea

Maybe mother knows best.

Maybe the child needed to be hydrated because she was ill.

Maybe the child was so spoiled she needed to be coerced into doing something she didn't like to help with her sickness. Who knows.


I'm assuming Mommy did know best and it was in the little girl's best interests to drink it... but coersion obviously wasn't necessary. Ice cream did the trick just fine. Should she have just given the girl a whipping and gotten her so upset that she couldn't drink it if she tried? Tied her down and poured it down her throat ala waterboarding?



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:34 PM
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originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: Boadicea

I'm sorry but I feel like this whole thought of yours ignores everything that makes any sense and is childish.

So a child molester who "just loves children" should not be forced to stop.


Um... let's see... is the child molester forcing himself on others? Yup. So of course the child molester must be stopped from forcing his will on a child...


A murderer feels he has the right to set people free early.


Hmmm... is the murder forcing his will on others? Yup. So of course the murderer must be stopped from forcing his will on others...


A child who will not get well without medication should be allowed to say no?


Well... does that child want to get well? Does that child need to understand that the medicine will make them well? Yup. So of course the parents need to do their job, make it another teaching moment, and help the child understand what is in their best interests...

Of course, there is also a big difference between a parent being a responsible parent and an out-of-control government exerting their tyranny on the masses.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: Boadicea




Shame on us. Shame on everyone who wants to force their will on others in whatever way and for whatever reason...


I'm sorry but I feel like this whole thought of yours ignores everything that makes any sense and is childish.

So a child molester who "just loves children" should not be forced to stop.

A murderer feels he has the right to set people free early.

A child who will not get well without medication should be allowed to say no?


I think what is being addressed here is False Authority.

False Authority is an external influence which will tell
you what THEY want you to do, and use "ICE CREAM"
(or some other undue pressure) to manipulate you
to do what THEY want.

The examples you give twist the aggressive person,
the attacker, the external force, into a person who
is merely acting in accord with their own rights.
That is a straw-man agreement, is the opposite
of what is being discussed here.

Children are under the authority of their parents
"authority" until the reach adulthood. However,
at some point is healthy to see that authority
(and every other external force) as false.

True authority comes from within.
Without autonomy, their is no true responsibility.
Parents have a duty to teach this to their kids.
In this case, the little girl already understands.

Strange so many others do not.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: Char-Lee

So when you want something protected or you want your own belonging safe what do you do? Ask nicely?


Huh? I'm not at all sure what point you are trying to make... and I don't want to guess...

Please expand?



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:49 PM
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originally posted by: Char-Lee

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Boadicea

I would call it a truism. Violence, coercion and manipulation are the nature of administration and control....Therefore, when someone says that they want to "do something" about some perceived transgression or undesirable state of being, whether they understand it or not, they mean they want to use violence.


Yes, exactly. Too often we don't see it in those terms (me included) -- and too often people do see it in those terms and think it's okay.


So when you want something protected or you want your own belonging safe what do you do? Ask nicely?


When defending one's person or property against violence, force is indicated and permissible but, I wouldn't characterize this scenario as such. I think I get the underlying point you are making though, the distinction is somewhat blurred as this example focuses on a minor.

Perhaps a mixed analogy?



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 01:51 PM
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originally posted by: wasaka

Without autonomy, their is no true responsibility.


Very well put, worthy of lithic inscription.




posted on May, 15 2015 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: wasaka

Thank you for saying so much so well!

I wish I could have said it so eloquently...



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 02:01 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: Boadicea

Maybe mother knows best.

Maybe the child needed to be hydrated because she was ill.

Maybe the child was so spoiled she needed to be coerced into doing something she didn't like to help with her sickness. Who knows.


I'm assuming Mommy did know best and it was in the little girl's best interests to drink it... but coersion obviously wasn't necessary. Ice cream did the trick just fine. Should she have just given the girl a whipping and gotten her so upset that she couldn't drink it if she tried? Tied her down and poured it down her throat ala waterboarding?


Hey my parents were terrible but they never bought me off with ice cream.

"you can be in a coma in a few hours or contract type 2 diabetes-it's your choice sweetheart."

Taking away privileges is the smart thing to do- I have no Idea where you got waterboarding from.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I was quite impressed with the mother. She was admirably talking to the girl as a real person with real feelings and a real brain, trying to explain why it was a good thing to do... not threatening her for having the audacity to have an opinion or her own will. The mother was trying to teach the girl to do the right thing for the right reason... not teaching her to cower and be a sheeple just because someone in authority with power told her so. This girl is receiving the greatest gift her mother can give her: critical thinking skills.

On the other hand, if the mother had used the already stressful experience to further frighten and traumatize the girl, she would have learned -- it would have been ingrained into the girl -- that doctors and hospitals are frightening and traumatizing people and places. Instead, the mother created a positive experience for the child in the end -- ice cream!!! What she will remember -- and thus identify with doctors and hospitals -- is that yeah, it's scary and yukky for a while, but it can be good in the end.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

I thought you meant what you said



Shame on everyone who wants to force their will on others in whatever way and for whatever reason...



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Char-Lee

So when you want something protected or you want your own belonging safe what do you do? Ask nicely?


Huh? I'm not at all sure what point you are trying to make... and I don't want to guess...

Please expand?


Force would have to be used against the will of someone to keep your own protected...
again I was going by what you said...



Shame on everyone who wants to force their will on others in whatever way and for whatever reason...



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: wasaka

Thank you you seem to correct that this is what was meant, I was just going by what was said and NOT reading between the lines. it seems clear and plain to me. There are many good reasons for another's will to forced on someone.



Shame on everyone who wants to force their will on others in whatever way and for whatever reason...

edit on 15-5-2015 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)



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