Demonizing of Iran by the West (U.S.)

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Nice try. There are times when one can live by those ideals and times that if one follows them, in times of war or serious threat one will be done in by them.

Hitler was democratically elected, by the way.

One can espouse ideals from some pedantic ivory tower and hold to those ideals, where the rubber meets the road it's tougher.

As I said, many things went too far, in hind-site, yet they are water under the bridge and are only used now to attempt introversion or guilt trips by those that have agendas currently.

I refuse to apologize for winning, thank you very much.

You sound just like every other person, across the world, who has justified their country's war crimes, unethical actions, etc. It makes you no better thereby than any of them.

USSR had a lot of rules and actual human rights even in their constitution, but "when the rubber hit the road" apparently it was "too hard" with realities on the ground to respect people's human rights. So apparently, you must by logical transference agree with what the USSR did?

a reply to: olaru12

I'm not interested in 'credibility'.

I am interested in the changing dynamics of the world and the ME. I think outside the box and rarely buy into the commonly accepted/ everybody knows mentality.

I care not for links on the subject, knowing full well the posters, in general, harvest the links of their particular views.

The links often are just as biased on both sides of the agenda.

I do know, however, the sheer dominance of the "oil Industry" has been sliding for decades as international trade has exploded. They voice/vested interest is now mixed with many others that weren't present in the day.

The U.S. is now capable of supplying it's own oil and natural gas needs 100% right this minute. That wasn't the case even a few years ago.

If you think that hasn't also diminished "oil interests" sway over U.S. foreign policy, then it's your credibility that I'd question.

That isn't the case for the E.U. Their oil plight is much the same as it was in the past. Hence, U.S. reluctance in the Egyptian and Libyan upheavals. (The Brits, bless their black souls, sounded that battle cry.)

Much has changed....

I think trucker and I agree on one thing more...we have found the world's first mistake free perfect human upon shoulders of glory everyone from this day forward should be judged...you owe every military veteran a grand thank you for many things...but you may be of the kind to call them cruel names and spit....since you are the only perfect human, I gotta call CNN....

originally posted by: teslahowitzer
I think trucker and I agree on one thing more...we have found the world's first mistake free perfect human upon shoulders of glory everyone from this day forward should be judged...you owe every military veteran a grand thank you for many things...but you may be of the kind to call them cruel names and spit....since you are the only perfect human, I gotta call CNN....

I am frankly shocked by your guys' logical fallacies and justifications.

A person saying that war crimes (torture, overthrowing democracies, death squads, etc) are wrong, and evil, and violate both our principles and international law, is doing what is called being a moral person.

Apparently you guys seem to think that someone standing up for universal human rights and what is ethical action is "being arrogant."

You also just obviously attempted a false equivalency, trying to equate someone calling out MAJOR crimes such as torture and oppression of other people as them trying to claim that they themselves are perfect on a more normal level.

Sorry brah, most of us HAVEN'T killed, tortured, etc. And I don't justify others who do.

Just listen to yourselves....

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Actually I agree with that assessment to a degree.

I believe that any political 'ism' likely would work with honorable participants.

What I see you leave out of the equation is that human factor. I will gladly give a hand of help when I can and I will gladly assist the same to assume 'room temperature' if needed. If, by my assessment, I am forced into violent action, I will be meaner, dirtier, nastier than the other guy. period.

I view 'pacifism, no matter what' as psychotic.

Where that line is drawn is the tough part, as usual, and that results is discord in and of itself.

Once again no apologies...

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Your shocked?? Horrors!1 What idyllic environment have you been raised in? It must be heaven.

From my reckoning, this era following the Cold War, has been surprisingly peaceful. World stability is such that millions in undeveloped countries have an industrial base and jobs as well as hope for the future that is unprecedented in the history of this world. Less starvation and disease. All despite political differences.

Yet you fixate on only the negative and hyperbolize them. A bitter man you must be.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14 And to add...we never...ever.. ever said we agree with torture, death squads.. etc, what is being said is that mistakes are made under stress and life hanging in the balance of which you have no clue of. this experience will change your life and your views. Quetz, I would torture beyond your imagination an operative whom knows a bomb is set to kill hundreds. All thru history hard choices had to be made at the sacrifice of few to save many, It is the way this stuff works. Would you rather we hold the wanna be killer for the international law council to make sure he does not stub his toe, all the while the bomb ticks away? These are not easy choices, and you question all of your being, but deep down you know what must be done. It is so easy to play ethics as your soldiers fight and die so you can manicure your nails, drop off the BMW at the detailer, and criticize their every move. You ever see a beheading of a 14 year old girl because she lost her berka in a storm and was trying to get home? that is true evil, and yet there are those whom have the freedom to blame at the cost of others lives......not a perfect world dude.....

Whew! I need my graphine threads for this errrm...thread.

For a moment, suspend popular package dressing and posture, surrender to political theater and strap on your abeyant tin lid.

A little birdie once professed to me that "nuclear" and any synonym, proxy, or abstraction of such, is a euphemism leased to a more lofty lexeme. Undisclosed tech.

The whispers suggest that certain world powers have a more progressive ideal with avant-garde breakthroughs, in hopes to shatter the chrysalis of our penitent, torpid, feudalism.

Lots of international conflict is a sleight of hand. Its all about reading between, and connecting the lines. But then again, my outrageous appraisal of current events maybe all poppycock! I annul. How could a radical, zealot nation have such forward-thinkers when they live in a virtual timewarp!?

Outrageous and provocative. The whole onion can leave you wracked.

a reply to: trifecta uh....what?

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

The trouble is your stuck in the Cold war era. The dynamics are completely different. Your "Latin American" countries are laden with their own oppressions, good old boy networks, power brokers. Disagreement amongst Latin nations tend not to get too far out of hand due to the OAS, read that U.S. military power.

World police is the closest description that fits. All police have their err 'weaknesses', the weaknesses are due a lack of over-site by it's citizens. Blame us.

Bottom line, there is no one even remotely capable of wearing that hat, so deal with it.

a reply to: trifecta

That was a refreshing post. Indeed, the onion you are referring to has many layers there are so many moving parts it would take centuries to really map out all of the relationships/enemies/historical animosities/etc. etc.

Can you elaborate at all on the "whispers suggest[ing] that certain world powers have a more progressive ideal with avant-garde breakthroughs, in hopes to shatter the chrysalis of our penitent, torpid, feudalism. "? I'm trying to imagine this but if you can go into more detail I would greatly appreciate it

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: trifecta

That was a refreshing post. Indeed, the onion you are referring to has many layers there are so many moving parts it would take centuries to really map out all of the relationships/enemies/historical animosities/etc. etc.

Can you elaborate at all on the "whispers suggest[ing] that certain world powers have a more progressive ideal with avant-garde breakthroughs, in hopes to shatter the chrysalis of our penitent, torpid, feudalism. "? I'm trying to imagine this but if you can go into more detail I would greatly appreciate it

/tipshat

I would be ecstatic to expand and embellished on my equivocal epitaph! But unfortunately, I am at the mercy of unabatable circumstance. As soon as the moment arise, I will illustrate the gossamer and byzantine conjecture conjured by corporeal, coherent conclusion. Even if it exposes me to a barrage of lampoon, liable, or leer. Fret not, this will come to fruition before the small hours.

Translation: need to get to a better interface

originally posted by: teslahowitzer
And now on the news....the peaceloving and sweet Iran has fired on ANOTHER cargo ship, breaking, but true, yeah, they were probably escaping a debt. they were in international waters...the Iranian ships tried to force them into their territorial waters...but they are perfect and mean no harm....BS, BS, BS...keep up the rhetoric...

hashtag *facepalm*

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: haman10

when was the last time Iran made an irrational decision ?

By allowing Khamenei to be "the decider"?

95 Billion in Asssets. Where did all that money come from?

The organization's total worth is difficult to pinpoint because of the secrecy of its accounts. But Setad's holdings of real estate, corporate stakes and other assets total about $95 billion, Reuters has calculated. That estimate is based on an analysis of statements by Setad officials, data from the Tehran Stock Exchange and company websites, and information from the U.S. Treasury Department.

Just one person controls that economic empire – Khamenei. As Iran's top cleric, he has the final say on all governmental matters. His purview includes his nation's controversial nuclear program, which was the subject of intense negotiations between Iranian and international diplomats in Geneva that ended Sunday without an agreement. It is Khamenei who will set Iran's course in the nuclear talks and other recent efforts by the new president, Hassan Rouhani, to improve relations with Washington.

www.reuters.com.../part1

Its an internal decision , it has nothing to do with you or anyone else . if we wanted to ask your opinion on who our leaders should be , we would not make a revolution in the first place , cause the shah of Iran was more loyal to you - as a US citizen - than to his own people .

making khomeini our decision maker , is non of anyone's business . lets get real . when was the last time Iran over-reacted to any international event ?

originally posted by: trifecta

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: trifecta

That was a refreshing post. Indeed, the onion you are referring to has many layers there are so many moving parts it would take centuries to really map out all of the relationships/enemies/historical animosities/etc. etc.

Can you elaborate at all on the "whispers suggest[ing] that certain world powers have a more progressive ideal with avant-garde breakthroughs, in hopes to shatter the chrysalis of our penitent, torpid, feudalism. "? I'm trying to imagine this but if you can go into more detail I would greatly appreciate it

/tipshat

I would be ecstatic to expand and embellished on my equivocal epitaph! But unfortunately, I am at the mercy of unabatable circumstance. As soon as the moment arise, I will illustrate the gossamer and byzantine conjecture conjured by corporeal, coherent conclusion. Even if it exposes me to a barrage of lampoon, liable, or leer. Fret not, this will come to fruition before the small hours.

Translation: need to get to a better interface

Perfectly understandable - whenever you have the time we can continue this discussion. U2U me or post on here again

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: buster2010

I knew you'd jump into this...

First, If it's proven there are no U.S. Citizens on board, your gonna have to provide a link, from a U.S. gov't source, not anyone else to back that up.

Second, If the ship held material that is banned by the embargo, then That's Iran's loss, not the carrier's. If there is a valid dispute it should be handled in court.

Third, keeping the crew, no matter what their nationality, is proof enough for me that their claim is bogus. One doesn't keep a crew hostage in a civil matter.

Will the US naval institute work? You Israeli supporters are the easiest to prove wrong.
Iran Seizes Marshall Islands Ship Maersk Tigris; U.S. Destroyer On Station
If you are able to read this you will clearly see it was not a US flagged ship nor were there any Americans on board. And Iran did take it to court that gave them the right to confiscate the ship. Also they are not keeping the crew they have already been released.

a reply to: buster2010

We see many things that make you go bat crazy trying to understand in a logical way .

Enemies of Hillary Clinton waiting to discredit her bid for the White House are likely to seize on news that one of the biggest benefactors to the Clinton Foundation has been trading with Iran and may be in breach of US sanctions imposed on the country.

Ukrainian oligarch Victor Pinchuk, 54, has courted the Clintons for at least nine years – in the United States, the Alps and Ukraine.

Earlier this year, he was confirmed as the largest individual contributor to the Clinton Foundation, whose aims include the creation of “economic opportunity and growth”. He also has links to the Tony Blair Foundation and represented its biggest single donor in 2013.

www.newsweek.com... The crazy part is that people will probably vote for her and Nuland will probably be a adviser .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

She is a traitorous b****....

a reply to: buster2010

If you were better educated, you'd know the Marshall Islands are still under the U.S.'s protection via defense and citizen rights. While given 'independence', they have the status and the rights under U.S. law. Not unlike P. R..

So much for the misdirect. Again, as an Iran apologist, even you must admit keeping crewmembers hostage for a civil matter is nothing but kidnapping and piracy. Now that they've done it again, Iran is in the league as North Korea.

A rogue nation.

a reply to: FamCore

Apologies for delay. I'll list a few bullet points to dress this conspiratorial canvas. It will be intentionally vague and abstract, just to allow a mind to draw their own conclusions.

Disclaimer: For your entertainment....

*The Middle East has always been a lightning rod in the Energy conflict. Initially, the ideology was to drain the competion dry, and have the world solicit you for your resources, in turn fixing/cornering the market. Obviously, this paradigm is dated, resulting in a short shelf life in an age of information. Alternate and more efficient energy concepts are hard to muffle across the webways, no matter how vigilant TPTB, attempt to stymie and stifle, shaping into a global sized session of whack a mole.

*As expected, Energy powers do not believe in surrender, nor integrity, nor ethics when faced with adversary. They will by any means necessary, preserve their iron grip. Other spheres of ecomonic influence too share this deep seeded sentiment and zealous sanctimony to the same faceless god. Big Pharma, Bank, Food, to name a few congress to consortium, in effort to maintaining their entitlement and kingdoms, cooperatively.

*All of this is elementary, regurgitated rhetoric of the tinfoil federation. An homage, that lends to TPTB's discredit to any spin but their own. Money (and threat to life and loved one's), has an efficient, intoxicating effect on the Human psyche, and accordingly, their seats and positions. There's nothing like a little "nudge", to one's genetic and professional legacy.

*Government becomes corporate shills, due to the heavy handed tactics (and the monkeyings;p) of the Moneykings. Seeding the political system and the reckless, rampant role of lobbying, coupled with comical campaign collusion, cure concrete control, in laissez-faire fashion. Political and foreign affair spin manifests with ease. But, as mentioned, that little rascal, endeared affectionately the Internet, proved to be a proverbial Pandora's Box.

So that's the skeletal framework and stage dressing, to support motive. Now let's make some presumptuous observations with the world theater:

*Who does the Government at large, suggest, proclaim, and insinuate are "our" nation's opponents be? Elements in the Middle East (Iran, Syria, and recently developing the Saudis). China. Russia. Why are some these recent bedfellows suddenly the enemy?! Money and disclosure.

*Let's review the money. The Fed Reserve, IMF, BIS, etc, made some BOLD and cocky moves. I don't want to go to far into the throws of time, so in turn I'll flag some of the more recent debauchery. The 2.3 trillion dollars that vaporized to no avail, thaumaturgorically from US Federal coffers. Easily misdirected and placated by national tragedy. A narrative with the voracity of a massive singularity. Followed by the plunder of the rest of US funds by siphoning no-bid contractors and suspect, inflated delegations of currency to our Space program.

*The real estate bubble scam and imperative bail out. The grotesque liberties taken with Greece, resulting in their bankruptcy, just to name a few. Observant eastern superpowers thread to this tangled, poison web, need not cast chicken bones to divine the pathology. If the money systems are arrogant enough to cannibalize its own (corporate downsizing) and sequentially its satellites and allies, who is innoculated to such brash trend?

*China and Russia maybe communist traditionally, but this by no means reflects on their cunning or guile. Their countries heir many great minds spanning all academia. In turn, the east forging a more binding, palpable, and clear alliance to counteract encroaching infestation.

*This is why Russia has undercut oil futures and defended their national interest, spun as aggressions by our press and media. This is why the East has started their own multinational currency and banking system. Their hand's been forced.

*Let's look at the historical record of nations attempting the intrepid and daring move for new banking/currency. Germany (ww1&2), Libya, Iraq to identify notable primary suspects. What was their fate? What spin and liable did they suffer? Again, TPTB don't take genesis lightly...

*Eastern powers concluded that if they were going to chip away and abolish these tyrannical titans, they would need the unilateral support from their neighbors and allies, and need to hit them from all angles. The Big Four, banking, energy, pharma, and food. Hence, current events veiled in deceit.

*Eastern Nations also prominently, have a progressive approach to technology. Europe to, but they know what happens to rogue elements, agitators, and rabble-rousers. /motionstogermany
So they cower en utero. A devil's share of the Big Four's prosperity leans uncomfortably on the truncation and staggering of maverick technological breakthroughs and marvels. Big Energy doesn't want to compete with alternative efficient or free-esque energy rivalry. Oil would collapse. Same goes for cutting edge propulsion. If aircraft suddenly closed the valve on chemical fuel, how many barrel of petrol fall to wayside, accounting the thousands of flights per day? Immense atrophy. Their myopic farsightedness refuses any retooling or venture like a stubborn brat. They have the capital liberty for spacial fluidity for transition. But it's less profitable. God forbid...

*The same principle apply to Pharma and Food. Cures, regeneration, longevity? None of these applications rouse these profiteers. Just as JP Morgan so elegantly deficated via lingua, to the super efficient light bulb and unmetered electric...."There's no profit in free!" (Paraphrasing of course). Big business all want you on their subscriptions for life, or until you run out of currency or value. They don't want one-time users. Everything uses the phone sex model. This is why the US will labor to get a cure for cancer, tooth regen, or baldness recognized by the establishment's scabs. Such testaments require extraordinary device.

*Bankrupting oil, reinventing global banking, and disclosure to tech will cauterize their legacy. Chemotherapy for conspiracy. These are the small, but heavy steps taken by the East to knock down the house of cards.

*So enlisting in this stream of thought, it begs to question global current events at large. You know the depths human greed and dominance will sink too for success. War, liable, brainwashing, cannibalism, are no deterrent to their singular cause. Our news is censored and filtered on every level, our electronic signature is smeared all over everything we do. Analog living is being forced into obsolete oblivion. How farfetched is false flag scenarios and smear campaigns to start global aggressions and war? Do you truly know your news feeds are forthcoming? Or are they corporate shills motivated by ambition or fear? How do you go about vetting their fabric and grain? Are we just residents of a three generation, Korean slave camp on larger scale? Do we even know North Korean slave/labor camps empirically exist to begin with? I know its s slippery slope that can easily digress into serious paranoia and the rebuttal of "so there's no such thing as truth, where are you getting you inclinations? The internet where no one lies? Fictions read?" Well that's the point, it's none and all including digestion of mass media outlets.
[To be continued...]

a reply to: trifecta

[Continued]

*It's your job to extrapolate a theory based on reading between the lines, seeing pathology and motive based on historical record and human nature. Apply them to global events to shape formula.

*So back to current events and the potential Iran agenda. Not so long ago, a controversial scientist hailing from Iran, with a British education, attempted to shake the foundations. Not with a nuclear weapon. Not with raising an army. He wanted to use certain scientific discoveries known and tested by him, as a proverbial olive branch to the world, especially nations that have demonized and vilified Iran. He also tried to introduce this science along the standard lines of communication, to no avail.

The lines with the US talks were established. But, shortly after this scientist's intense drive was, well, "quelled". The timbre of his march gone silent. Iran was slothfully being show in a different light. Lots of stall tactics were employed, until Eastern powers got involved. Urgency became visceral.

*As result, a lethargic strip tease ensues between both sides of the globe. Has anyone tuned into the rash revelations surfacing from The US, China, and Russia? Holotech, the beginnings of teleportation, stem cell breakthroughs, stealth cloaking, force fields, EM drives, talk about quantum computation, privatization of space travel, etc...

*Isn't it a bit suspect suddenly India, China, and coincidentally a handful of Eastern nation, are launching their own probes and rovers to the Moon, Mars, and beyond? Do you think these chess stratagem provoked the limited, slightly unrestricted pursuit and venture into the space travel privatization? Why is the government launching tactical missles at the Moon? Helium-4? Iridium deposits? Hmmmmmmmm.

* What about all the rabble surrounding the fantastic claims of human looking aliens on Earth, distilled from Snowden documents? Did you see how fast Kerry jumped on a plane when Russia threatened unequivocal proof of disclosure?

Again, maybe it's not something as monumental as aliens, which calls for extraordinary suspense of belief. Maybe it's one of these "euphemisms" I've suggested.

Big change is coming. Events are culminating vivid and expedient. Once Pandora's box unhinged, there's no recourse or return. Do you really think the proliferation of military surplus and the presence of US militia forces on homesoil is coincidental? Maybe the beancounters forecast restless natives after a potential fall of the US dollar, revelation of conspiratorial surpression of advance tech and med, and the obsessive quarantine of life outside our planet? It will be tough to amend such liberties taken with citizens. I shudder at the thought.

Who's the real enemy in these times? The lines are blurred and soupy. But then again, everything I've covered briefly, could in fact just be the paranoid rantings and ravings of an over medicated, inmate of a sanitarium for the insane! I won't entertain the suggestions i flounder.

Remember: For your entertainment...