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Demonizing of Iran by the West (U.S.)

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posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:26 PM
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Although it might sound as if I am against Iran, I am sooo not. I think Iran has the potential to be one of the greatest countries on Earth. I just want them to be okay, and I'm afraid they are not going to be because of their leadership, or lack thereof.




posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: angeldoll

"So does Iran have some major beef with Israel then? And if so, how did that come to be?

And why is America so invested in Israel's affairs? Is it just because of the political and financial connections our leaders have with theirs?"

Your questions appear to be rhetorical, so I won't bother. : )


No, I legitimately wanted to hear why America is worried about Iran's nuclear weapons which we think would be used against Israel.

And why (other than what I understand as monetary and political ties) the U.S. is so concerned with Israel. Can you enlighten me on this at all? It's such a complicated topic and I want to know more, I don't understand a lot of what's going on.
edit on 14-5-2015 by FamCore because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: teslahowitzer

I live in a very insignificant place in the world . www.google.ca... and the weather is nice today weather.gc.ca...



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1 sorry, not even a reasonable excuse for anything that resembles proof....sorry dude, I am a hard sell, I am talking actual pics of active oppression you discussed...my friend's daughter sent me cool pics from the Bahamas from her 4 year old LG phone...



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: FamCore




No, I legitimately wanted to hear why America is worried about Iran's nuclear weapons which we think would be used against Israel.

First ,there are no weapons ,and as far as any suggestions about weapons go it is only a threat if they do make them .Iran may be forcing the issue and I am with them if that is the case but because there is a good reason to think that Israel has them ,they might want them to show theirs to the world . That would mean inspectors and you can't talk about what you cant see . This threat has been used to have sanctions on Iran to keep them economically isolated but it hasn't really worked . They want the program for power and medical use ,or that is what they have been saying and doing up until now.

If they develop the bomb then their neighbors would feel the need to have one too and then every one has the bomb and the ME would become unstable ,as if it wasn't already .



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: teslahowitzer

I guess the authority on the subject is Perkins .



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1 You are right the2, this would be bad, a ME with every separatist armed with a nuke, Israel has many, everyone knows that, they also have anti-ballistic technology that works, Problem here is Leaders of Iran have over and over publicly stated death to America, death to Israel, over and over, time after time.. it is easy to find on any search engine...This is not any secret, to anyone, the 12th imam, the caliphate, only REAL stupid people do not know this or do not care. Israel would not fire a nuke unless truly threatened, some in Iran want to start the chain of events with the first shot (be the hero). This is undeniable, easy to find , easy to read the words, but Saudi needs no nukes, as the demand for their oil reduces so does their influence, and they do not like that. The ME was the worlds supplier of oil, now the shift is in play, the funds for weapons and tech came heavily from oil, energy independence can really mess this wagon up, can be an issue as the writing on the wall becomes clearer...



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: teslahowitzer
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14 Sorry, but when you are the world's police, some action must be taken. The world's superpowers are obligated to force policy (as messy as that is) A small country should not try aggression or dictate policy due to the balance of force against them. We do a lot of things wrong, and have not pleased everyone, it is a curse that comes with the moniker. the "aggression balance" is not the real story... AND I am sure, with all of the video and audio out there, I could start a thread on "The demonizing of America by the middle East (Iran)....



The problem here is that you are still buying into the "world police" argument. It is demonstrably false.

The history of the last 100 years conclusively shows that the US and Britain HAVE NOT been intervening world wide as a "police force" nor for human rights, freedom, and democracy. Completely the opposite in fact over and over again.

The history of LAtin America alone proves this. The US frequently overthrew democratically elected governments and installed iron-fisted dictators, when it suited their purpose. This is factual and demonstrable.

Hence the "world police" argument fails.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Great insights - I know that the U.S. also installed "leaders" who help U.S. interest in South and Central America as well (including psychotic dictators who we knew would not be good for the people of those countries).

All of these shady political activities and yet Iran is painted as the evil of all evils... it's funny how they do that


Exactly! The history of Latin America alone proves without a shadow of a doubt that our US foreign policy is purely based on geo-political hegemony at a global level, and human rights, freedom, national sovereignty, international law, and democracy be damned.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:20 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: FamCore

Well, let me be sucked in and respond to this.

I do not apologize whatsoever for U.S. actions in the 'fifties' or forward during the cold-war. Different times, different priorities. Plenty of mistakes made then and now.

Seeing that era is either largely unknown or ignored by you or your Iranian 'apologists', I will simply say fear of Soviet expansion was the order of the day. Iran, or it's then leaders, chose to align with the Soviets and the U.S. countered/blocked it wherever it occurred anywhere in the world.

Six foot wide rear-view mirrors show many instances where, perhaps the U.S. went too far. Yet that assessment only occurred after the defeat of that Soviet expansionism.

To be honest, I'd rebut better having gone 'too far' and win than too little and lose....

It's not a particularly nice planet...


Fast forward to the current mess....

( I will point out, I'm no expert-perhaps a good thing- so my views and explanation is 'simple' in it's wording.)

The current events appears to me to have four major players-I omit Israel as a player as they are largely used as a 'misdirect' to take attention of off their own actions...a smoke-screen- and they are Turkey, with their ambitions to restore a version of the Ottoman Empire, The Iranians/Persians with their similar ambitions, The Saudi/oil is king types that want status-quo and lastly the Isis types that say they want a pure religious region as what's there now is continued lunacy.

The trouble is that bunch has ended up crazier than the rest....

None of the above are concerned with 'survival' of their country, though through their actions they should be- it's expansion through influence with eventual dominance within their region. Simple.

Iran is a major player.

I have a few Ex-pat Iranian friends and acquaintances, both Jewish and Muslim, their stories of the Iranian gov't and their internal actions on their citizens are enlightening. Not nice people at all. Naturally, their actions outside their country would be and are worse. Again simple.

Now the U.S.. I stress NOW. Not the Bushes' era, now. The U.S. is, in fact coordinating with Iran in attacks against Isis. (The enemy of my enemy is my friend) Even Iran views the U.S. as a lesser threat than Isis. At least, at the moment.

If the U.S. really wanted to have at it with Iran, they would flood Iran with weapons, doo-doo stirrers, contractors...everything under the sun that would create the same 'revolutionary' situation that has occurred farther west in numerous other ME nations.

Prima Facie evidence is they have not done so.

In fact, the U.S. policy under Obama with Iran is appeasement. Even the piracy of a U.S. flagged ship and the retention of numerous U.S. citizens has created no significant response from Obama other than to escort U.S. and U.K. ships through the strait and then ordered those same U.S. military ships to retreat if confronted by the Iranian navy!

Please imagine what the consequences of that act would have been under Bush, Reagan, even Clinton....

All Obama wants is an Nuclear agreement with Iran, at least partially for legacy purposes, and is backing off in every possible way with Iran to achieve that.

Iran is taking full advantage of that fact.

I qualify that by saying that is at this moment in time. Later? Under a different president? It's a grim future in the ME.

This is only my opinion based on limited knowledge via culling out the wheat from the chaff of the various P.R. machines.

I could be totally wrong. Much, much more going on here than I could get a grip on.....




If you don't apologize for what the US did in the 50's, including overthrowing democratically elected governments and installing puppet dictators, then you cannot claim to actually support American principles such as UNIVERSAL human rights, freedoms that are "god-given," democracy, etc.

Those who would claim to be Americans and support these principles yet transgress these principles abroad either are lying in the first place or never understood those principles in the first place.

Those Americans, are the true traitors.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14 not even close....at the end of WW2, there were 2 heavy weights, 2 separate ideology, influence here, influence there...counter this, counter that, CIA, KGB, commies, anti commies....just the world we live in, again, we are not perfect, not always the best move, but from a new York state of mind...you hate your country, cant get a passport?



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: teslahowitzer
a reply to: the2ofusr1 You are right the2, this would be bad, a ME with every separatist armed with a nuke, Israel has many, everyone knows that, they also have anti-ballistic technology that works, Problem here is Leaders of Iran have over and over publicly stated death to America, death to Israel, over and over, time after time.. it is easy to find on any search engine...This is not any secret, to anyone, the 12th imam, the caliphate, only REAL stupid people do not know this or do not care. Israel would not fire a nuke unless truly threatened, some in Iran want to start the chain of events with the first shot (be the hero). This is undeniable, easy to find , easy to read the words, but Saudi needs no nukes, as the demand for their oil reduces so does their influence, and they do not like that. The ME was the worlds supplier of oil, now the shift is in play, the funds for weapons and tech came heavily from oil, energy independence can really mess this wagon up, can be an issue as the writing on the wall becomes clearer...



But first things first, America needs to take responsibility. We overthrew their government via the CIA in the 50's. We armed Saddam against them, including possibly with chemical weapons. Should they not have the right to hate us? Who are we to blame them? There will not be peace until countries like ours stop blaming countries like Iran for being mad. We owe them an apology.

Second, even the CIA and most European intelligence services do NOT agree that Iran is working on a bomb. It's basically all propaganda.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Sorry, the U.S. no longer cares about ME oil. This isn't the twentieth century.





Why would you say something like that and destroy all your credibility?

www.reuters.com...

www.halliburton.com...

www.nytimes.com...

Of course Iranian oil is of interest To the US.


edit on 14-5-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: teslahowitzer
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14 not even close....at the end of WW2, there were 2 heavy weights, 2 separate ideology, influence here, influence there...counter this, counter that, CIA, KGB, commies, anti commies....just the world we live in, again, we are not perfect, not always the best move, but from a new York state of mind...you hate your country, cant get a passport?



A real American and patriot holds their country and country men accountable when they transgress our principles. America transgressed our principles during those times, and continues to lie about it.

A FAKE American, rationalizes American war crimes. They don't actually understand the principles that the Declaration of Independence and Constitution embodied.

Third, there is ALWAYS an excuse for war crimes. This is what people like you don't get. EVERY SINGLE LAST TIME that some person or country commits war crimes, there always is an expediency such as needing information (torture), facing a strong enemy (most wars), wanting to preemptively knock out an enemy (war crime of aggression), not wanting other players in their backyard (Putin with Crimea and Ukraine; US with Latin America).

I have a major issue with Americans who dare to justify war crimes, from torture to overthrowing democracies. That... is.. not.... America!



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: teslahowitzer

Well there are people in North America that are not happy and have similar feelings about the US and Israel as Iran does .I think it's more about the Zionist aspect as you hear people within Israel speak out too . As for Saudi well .

Saudi Arabia will not rule out building or acquiring nuclear weapons, the country’s ambassador to the United States has indicated.

Asked whether Saudi Arabia would ever build nuclear weapons in an interview with US news channel CNN, Adel Al-Jubeir said the subject was “not something we would discuss publicly”.

Pressed later on the issue he said: “This is not something that I can comment on, nor would I comment on.”

The ambassador’s reticence to rule out a military nuclear programme may reignite concerns that the autocratic monarchy has its eye on a nuclear arsenal.
www.independent.co.uk...



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14 I will not excuse every move made by every American in every scenario, but war is nasty, very nasty, Sometimes one evil choice is better than the other evil choice, and sometimes you make the wrong evil choice, humans do things like this. Life is different in the trenches of war, the trenches of operatives, you rely heavily on your given intel, make moves based on bad data, one life for many, many for one life. As we sit on our leather chair, sipping some fine whiskey, judging people on their motives and directives, calling them traitors and scumbags in a Monday morning quarterback mode makes one really arrogant and narrow minded to the ones that are there living it. these people die to ensure we live the same as the day before. Yes, our leaders suck to high hell especially now, but I have a clue it could be better than the alternative, which neither of us know what that really could have been...



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:49 PM
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originally posted by: teslahowitzer
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14 I will not excuse every move made by every American in every scenario, but war is nasty, very nasty, Sometimes one evil choice is better than the other evil choice, and sometimes you make the wrong evil choice, humans do things like this. Life is different in the trenches of war, the trenches of operatives, you rely heavily on your given intel, make moves based on bad data, one life for many, many for one life. As we sit on our leather chair, sipping some fine whiskey, judging people on their motives and directives, calling them traitors and scumbags in a Monday morning quarterback mode makes one really arrogant and narrow minded to the ones that are there living it. these people die to ensure we live the same as the day before. Yes, our leaders suck to high hell especially now, but I have a clue it could be better than the alternative, which neither of us know what that really could have been...



The thing is, there is a reason that many things that were done are illegal under international law. Torture is wrong because not only does it violate an individual's human rights and due process, it ALSO actually is very ineffective at gathering information. It's gratuitous.

Why are war crimes of aggression, i.e. preemptive attacks on another, wrong and illegal? Because it not only violates the sovereignty of another country but also takes the life and liberty of the populace. It is one stronger or preemptive power violating the rights of another.

Why is it wrong to overthrow a democracy and install a dictator that is more amenable to your country? Because it again violates the rights of the other country and peoples to make their own way, to have a representative not tyrannical government. And, it once again is the strong oppressing the weak.

So, what you keep coming back to is that there are expediencies and realities on the ground that somehow justify the above. That is basically what you are doing.

But then, again, you cannot claim to actually believe in what the Founding Fathers based our country on, nor what we say in public as Americans.

Also, you forever lose the right then to ever criticize another country for doing the same (invading, couping, regime changing, torturing, etc)

You lose the moral high ground to ever attack or intervene based on another regime doing these actions.

If you believe that Americans have the right to do these things, by reflexive logic then you cannot complain when others do them to America.

Finally, you are still violating international law.


edit on 14-5-2015 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1 I will bet you a bag of Dorito's there may be one or two in Iran who have a slight dislike that some Khomeini is allowed in public....get real, the whole world is a melting pot of agenda driven brainwashed morons, intermingled, mixed in, infiltrating, of just living on someone's couch...newsflash, some Americans HATE America, but will never leave....some Iranians hate Iran...but will never leave...what a world....



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Nice try. There are times when one can live by those ideals and times that if one follows them, in times of war or serious threat one will be done in by them.

Hitler was democratically elected, by the way.

One can espouse ideals from some pedantic ivory tower and hold to those ideals, where the rubber meets the road it's tougher.

As I said, many things went too far, in hind-site, yet they are water under the bridge and are only used now to attempt introversion or guilt trips by those that have agendas currently.

I refuse to apologize for winning, thank you very much.



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14 save me your ethics lesson, clearly you have never served in the military or overseas as an target....so easy to judge when you know every micro detail about everything possible and completely trust the source of info to upon base an unwavering opinion from the comfort of your hindsight. I just visualize international law if the results of some conflicts were different......



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