Amtrak Crash Hits Home for Lawmakers-- Who Respond By, Yes, Cutting Funding

a reply to: Kali74

I'm not trying to just pick on you, but explain how this train conductor driving more than twice the speed he should have been around a curve and causing a derailment has ANYTHING to do with infrastructure funding or a lack of it. Would a set of brand new tracks magically have made that train stick to them and no derailment would have happened? Would additional oversight have stopped this from happening?

No.

We need to quit using tragedies like this inappropriately in order to push a more-money-more-government agenda.

The state of our infrastructure is sad. I work in a 25 story high rise in an affluent area of los angeles. the building has tennants like extremely high end lawyers and managers. Some well known corporations etc... not a place you would want to loose power to and disrupt the business going on. But in the last two months we've had power outages thst lasted all day. 4 of them. Everyone going home and nothing getting done because there is no electricity. One outage lasted 3 days. Turns out the source if the problem wasnt the buildings infrastructure but the cities Dwp comes in and determines the power lines and transformer that feed the building are so old and decrepit that they are literally blowing out. The hard part is they are so old that they dont even make the parts anymore nor have any in stock at any of their wear houses. Citys trying to figure out how to solve the problem and will "get back to us" on it. Sad our commercial towers cant even maintaine reliable electricity

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Kali74

I'm not trying to just pick on you, but explain how this train conductor driving more than twice the speed he should have been around a curve and causing a derailment has ANYTHING to do with infrastructure funding or a lack of it. Would a set of brand new tracks magically have made that train stick to them and no derailment would have happened? Would additional oversight have stopped this from happening?

No.

We need to quit using tragedies like this inappropriately in order to push a more-money-more-government agenda.

Absolutely agree! Politicizing a tragedy when as far as we know it was most likely human error not infrastructure to further a political debate is messed up.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

While I agree that this was probably a failure of the conductor more than a failure of infrastructure, I have to say that privatizing doesn't mean cheaper, actually privatizing means that those that will be running the system needs to fulfill profit margins, this end up on passing cost to consumers, profits are priority, beside that most of the time the tax payer also ends up paying in the name of subsidies.

Breaking, not sure if this is related to the state of the fleet but...

Amtrak locomotive catches fire in Milwaukee

An Amtrak locomotive has caught fire near Milwaukee's Walker's Point neighborhood.

a reply to: whatnext21

Oh, I am sure that the entire system due to cost is in deplorable conditions, we as a nation can no even compete with other developing countries transit systems because priorities.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Kali74

I'm not trying to just pick on you, but explain how this train conductor driving more than twice the speed he should have been around a curve and causing a derailment has ANYTHING to do with infrastructure funding or a lack of it. Would a set of brand new tracks magically have made that train stick to them and no derailment would have happened? Would additional oversight have stopped this from happening?

No.

We need to quit using tragedies like this inappropriately in order to push a more-money-more-government agenda.

Part of having better infrastructure, is in making systems that aren't prone to operator error. So yes, better infrastructure would have prevented this because there would have been computer controls on the speed.

a reply to: Aazadan

I am sure also that due to cuts and poor management conductors are not screened the way they should, that also has to do with bad infrastructure.

a reply to: Aazadan

Are you serious?

Computer controlled devices screw up all the time.

This case is about human error, not the crumbling infrastructure and lack of funding to fix it. And to say this could have been avoided if a computer was in control is highly naive.

Has terrorism been considered?

Or the possibility of engineer jealousy and/or suicide?

or sabotage

a reply to: marg6043

We'll agree to disagree on that...the point in my ideal situation is that it would be privatized, and if the public would not support it, the company would fail.

Amtrak is propped up by taxpayers--if it weren't, it would have already failed by now, according to many estimations I've seen over the years.

Here's a nice article from 2011 on MarketWatch.com that is a good list that explains what I'm talking about, but the best excerpts are:

...

The company is projecting an operating loss of $507 million for the fiscal year ended in September -- even more than its $420 million loss in 2010 -- and next year, it expects to lose $616 million. Amtrak, which hasn't had a profitable year since it began operations in 1971...

Amtrak relies on federal subsidies; in 2011 it received $1.4 billion in federal funds. The company says that because the bulk of the funding is earmarked for long-distance trains, most of the subsidies go toward high-end services, like sleeper and dining cars, which most passengers never use. According to a Rasmussen Reports survey of likely voters in the U.S., 53 percent want the funding to stop. Experts say the competition that keeps many businesses on their toes is absent from passenger rail service. "Amtrak is it," says Charles Banks, president of rail-consulting firm R.L. Banks & Associates. "If you were the only business in America, you'd get fat and lazy too."

I'm looking at NPR and PBS with the same eye, too...

a reply to: xuenchen

Humm, really xuenchen, do you have to bring the conspiracy angle here? heck I didn't even thought about this been an act of terrorism, but then again taking into consideration ISIS promise of more retaliation, then add that they just killed number two ISIS man yesterday you could not be so far from the truth.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Thanks ok, but we know that it seems the government agenda is just to keep cutting away to the point of making the entire system fail, before is sold to private interest.

Let see what happen with this new tragedy, perhaps something will be done if the people complain enough.

We are way behind other developed countries when it comes to railroad systems.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Has terrorism been considered?

Or the possibility of engineer jealousy and/or suicide?

or sabotage

Hard to say what's being considered...last I looked into it, the conductor isn't talking.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: SlapMonkey
We are way behind other developed countries when it comes to railroad systems.

I think that's because it's not really good business here in America. Driving and flying are so prevalent that rail is taking a back seat--and that's okay. We don't always need to compare ourselves to other "developed countries" and feel an obligation to do everything that they do.

I remember riding on an Amtrak train once as a kid--probably 25 years ago or more. It was neat, but I never had a desire to do it again. I sure do love driving cars, though...

ETA: Maybe that's just the control freak in me.

ETA again:

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: SlapMonkey
Thanks ok, but we know that it seems the government agenda is just to keep cutting away to the point of making the entire system fail, before is sold to private interest.

I see that as the fiscally responsible people in the government trying to slowly cut ties with a tax-dollar succubus of an industry--that's be decent stewards of my tax dollars.

a reply to: Aazadan

You're basing your loose argument on assumptions...assumptions that make it impossible for me to argue against a hypothetical that isn't in existence. You can't prove your negative any more than I can assertively argue against it.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Thanks ok, but we know that it seems the government agenda is just to keep cutting away to the point of making the entire system fail, before is sold to private interest.

Let see what happen with this new tragedy, perhaps something will be done if the people complain enough.

We are way behind other developed countries when it comes to railroad systems.

Cutting away?!

There haven't been any real cuts since Obama took office.

These cuts they are trying to blame are only being debated just now. They had NOTHING to do with anything because they haven't happened.

And in case you haven't been paying attention, our country is $18 trillion in debt. What money do we have for anything, much less trains that hardly anyone rides on? None.

In the end we are going to have cut, deep and painfully, so what's more important: Amtrak or your grandmother's SS check? Amtrak or food stamps? Amtrak or education?

Yes, we DO have to have priorities, and somehow, a rail line that hardly anyone uses seems to me to be far down on the list.

a reply to: derfreebie

This one is about Congress doing its job, especially in the House Appro-
priations Committee. I'm not stumping for X v. Y, or who's to blame for
killing at least six people and injuring at least 150 more. That thread's
out there already. This is no rant, it's an expose' of our ineptitude at
electing people who don't just argue like lawyers (oh wait-- 70% ARE).

Congress. You get what you pay for folks. I hope next go-round people who can see further than their back pocket get elected. Surely, there's a lesson to be learned every day from this inadequate, incompetent bunch.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: derfreebie

This one is about Congress doing its job, especially in the House Appro-
priations Committee. I'm not stumping for X v. Y, or who's to blame for
killing at least six people and injuring at least 150 more. That thread's
out there already. This is no rant, it's an expose' of our ineptitude at
electing people who don't just argue like lawyers (oh wait-- 70% ARE).

Congress. You get what you pay for folks. I hope next go-round people who can see further than their back pocket get elected. Surely, there's a lesson to be learned every day from this inadequate, incompetent bunch.

That's really funny.

When Congress cuts, I'm accused because I am looking at my back pocket, you know, my own self-interest. When I have the chance to elect a Congress that will make rampant hand-outs and I vote for the Congress that cuts, I get yelled at for not looking at my own back pocket, you know, my own self-interest.

You can't have it both ways. Either I am to be selfish or I am not.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I rode the systems in NY back in the 70s when I was a very young with my cousins it was smelly (urine) dirty and nasty.

Then I rode the system from DC to NY, back in the 90s, it was nice, clean and I love it.