Can we measure the damage that J Maussan Hoaxes are doing to serious UFOLOGY? or Science?

Maussan is nothing more than a news program talking head who shot to the forefront after covering the Mexico City sightings of the 90s during the eclipse. He has no training. He has shown to be one of the most gullible men I've ever witnessed and surely dishonest in his research. As far as how much damage has he done....none if you discount anything associated with him. In the big game he's 1% of 1% of the disinfo out there so I wouldn't worry about him much. He'll certainly go down in history as a gullible charlatan.

a reply to: gortex

Well Dr gortex,

I would want to take this in a so easy manner as you suggest, but Dr Edgar Mitchell was there, also Tom Carey , Don Schmitt , As well as Anthony Bragaglia .

All of them are extremely famous authors and researchers on the UFO phenomenon, they were all fooled by the team of Dew and Maussan.

Remember that Edgar Mitchell was living in Roswell when the incident happened, so his presence is extremely meaningful.

Dr Edgar Mitchell:
“The truth about it is that it was real,I was there when the Roswell incident took place. I was on my way to college and had just graduated high school. One day, it was in the Roswell Daily Record, which was a newspaper in Roswell, about an alien spacecraft that had crashed, and the next day that it had been denied by the Air Force, saying that it was a weather balloon. I believed that and went off to college.

Edgar Mitchell was in Roswell during the UfO incident

Now, in the show of the National Auditorium , as well as in the preliminary talk presented his intended talk to the media in February, Jaime Maussan showed some of the other slides that were supposed in the same lot, and there were various containing the face of General Dwight Eisenhower.


On this Incident there was too much lack of respect to the image of many respectful institutions and personalities, using them abusively to promote a highly doubtful material.

The survival witnesses of the Roswell incident were exposed to a ridicule that by sure will be used in the future to discredit the whole subject by the enemies that it has around the world.

Fortunately personalities like Stan Friedman and Jose Caravaca decided to decline any participation on this fiasco.

It is possible for the UFOLOGY to overcome this scandal, possibly yes, in the same way it was possible for NASA to overcome the disaster of Apollo 1, but is going to take a lot of time.

The media balloon of the so called Roswell slides has damaged more the credibility on the incident than even any weather balloon of the past.

What probable will never be repaired as it was before is the memory of Bernard Ray and Hilda Blair, two good citizens that never claimed to have nothing to do with the Roswell incident or conspiracy, as well as the good name of their still alive family friends who were interviewed by Maussan and whose images were showed by him in his talks about this subject.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: MonsterMash

Dear MonsterMash,

Jaime Maussan unfortunately is a really influential journalist in Mexico, he came from some of the principal the Newspapers to the TV since the 1970s, he has academic credentials in that profession from UNAM and from the Miami University in Ohio, so he is a person that can't be considered as uneducated and ignorant of professional ethics.

Now, he became famous working for Televisa, in Particular for Journalist of an unquestionable reputation Mr Jacobo Zabludovsky, who is an institution in the Mexican Media. He worked for him here in the USA covering the Watergate scandal, The Vietnam war era and the bicentenary of the Independence.

Possibly is the shadow of that epoch who has driven him to do so much risky and I can say irresponsible actions in his career without fearing to generate Scandals. Now one thing is that journalists uncover a Scandal and other very different that they are the origin of the Scandal.

Without the opportunity that Televisa and Zabludovsky gave to him possibly he never might be the figure that he is now. To deny he can do journalism of social problems or ecological problems with good level of research is not possible, he has received many awards in those fields.

paradigmresearchgroup.org...

Nevertheless He does not have any Professional degrees on Astronomy, Physics, Chemistry, Engineering or Medicine or any Biological science, credentials that we expect in a Researcher in UFO phenomenon must have, but he has some formal studies in Geology, I think from UNAM, although it seems never received the degree. It is probable that his determination to show the slides influenced a lot the criteria and good judgment of the different parts he contacted to validate them in Mexico.

He has played since 2009 a so dangerous game by going in to so serious scandals that it is clear his lack of responsibility or ability to estimate the risks toward his own career, his production house TercerMilenio, Galavision Channel, or Televisa prestige and even against the reputation of the Academic institutions he used to "validate his findings".

I think this incident will be determinant in his career, it is really too much grave to pass without consequences, especially if he insists into continue supporting his original claims on the slides in spite of all the solid evidence against them. This is a fiasco of such dimension that can burnt the career of almost anybody behind it.

I would be able to predict that without any serious apology from his side, that also helps to determine the weight of his guilt and the one of Adam Dew, he could finish being the Richard Nixon of the Mexican Media.

His career is anyway several times more important than the one of Adam Dew. Maussan has received many of the most prestigious international awards of journalism. That is what made me ask how he could promote a so old story (2009) from so unreliable source? This was something none American Media wanted to show or discuss.

If Mr Maussan thinks this is something can't damage his career, due to his connections with Televisa, he is dramatically wrong, since the Roswell Incident is in the very core of Ufology, it is in some way like the Santo Sanctorum of this field.

We have even declassified documents pointed in to his authenticity, so to expose it to this kind of ridicule is madness, for whoever makes journalism in this area.

Declassified Memorandum of UFO sightings related with Roswell

His stubbornness to accept the reality of the ridicule he made and to apologize publically in a way that matches with the magnitude of his fault can carry for him a VETO IN THE UFOLOGY circles around the World. He might follow the example of Anthony Bragaglia if he still has some sense of dignity, and repair economically the parts that were scammed or damaged on this event.

Curiously, Richard Nixon also made his political career using Scandals to move upward, not occasionally but systematically before to be VicePresident. He started prosecuting suspected communists during the McCarty era and well the Hiss scandal touched so strongly the FDR administration. He even risked to be the VP nominee in 1952 precisely due to another scandal. It was ironic that he ended his political life also through a huge scandal.

es.wikipedia.org...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

It is possible for the UFOLOGY to overcome this scandal, possibly yes, in the same way it was possible for NASA to overcome the disaster of Apollo 1, but is going to take a lot of time. 

Comparing NASA with UFOlogy is like comparing science with scientology....

a reply to: Prezbo369

Well Dear Prezbo, in 1960s when the Apollo1 fire occurred there were many that thought it was a myth that man was going to effectively reach the moon, especially since also the Soviet program had a terrible accident with the Soyuz 1.

Today we talk on these topics with the perspective that time give us by looking at them backward, but there was a time in which those projects were more an adventure than anything else.

As a matter of fact NACA and NASA before to call Verner Von Braun had a terrible sequence of disasters that the skepticism of its success in the late 1950s was several times higher than the confidence in its future. Sputnik I, II, and III were a nightmare for President Eisenhower, by the way.

Do you know What Verner Von Braun was forced to do in between 1954 to 1958, this to call the attention of the NASA into his ideas? to film Disney cartoon documentaries about them.


www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

it took a lot of independent work, personal determination and non sponsored research time to move the space program from the area of simple entertainment for children to the one of a serious National priority and recognized science.

Now, How is going to be seen Roswell or the UFO phenomenon in 50 years or more? the trend suggest it will be a very different story of what we have seen until present. This is the reason for which serious scientists like Stan Friedman have devoted so many years to this field, because they see its potential at future.

When Yuri Gagarin was sent into orbit in 1961 the descendants of Jules Verne family sent their congratulations to him saying that he represented the achievement of the dreams of that writer, Why? because they were absolutely convinced that the goal to go to the moon might be unreachable, that it was just a beautiful Utopia.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Both Roswell and the claims of alien UFOs happened a lot longer than 50 years ago......and nobody with any critical thinking skills thinks they're genuine enough to be considered true in 2015 due to the lack of evidence produced in the past 60+ years....

This is why UFOlogy is pseudoscience, peddled by hoaxers and nuts and lapped up by those unable to differentiate their wants with realty.

NASA had demonstrable results 60+ years ago, so like I said, comparing it to Ufology is laughable.

a reply to: Prezbo369

Dear Prezbo,

with all respect, Again, Your comparison is not even pertinent or logical, you are trying to compare NASA of Today with Ufology of Today, that is not even thinkable, you need to project yourself backward in time to see what was NACA or NASA in 1950s.

The man went into Space in between 1958 to 1961 and to the moon in between 1969 and 1973 thanks not Just to what NASA or the Russian space program did , but to the so long chain of events and discoveries or inventions in between the first Chinese fireworks that were invented in the 7th century in China (time of the Tang Dynasty), and the first outer space flight of a missile in October of 1942 in Peenemünde Army Research Center, Germany.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

This was by the way not the first case in History. Anybody that has defied the status quo of the science has been ridiculed or attacked as pseudo scientists , dreamers and even liars, that includes Socrates, Galileo Galilei, Giurdano Bruno, Sigmund Freud even Albert Einstein.

Giuglielmo Marconi the inventor of the telegraphy without wires, and so by extension the pioneer of all the wireless communication was sent to a psychiatric hospital by his own friends when he first time disclosed his findings. No body even believed it was possible such a thing that today we consider perfectly feasible.

Christopher Columbus was accused of hoaxer and also of possible mad by the faculty of the best Universities of Europe of his time when he was allowed to talk of a trip around the ocean toward the west. We are living today where we are thanks to what in his time was called pseudoscience.


Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: Prezbo369
Again, Your comparison is not even pertinent or logical, you are trying to compare NASA of Today with Ufology of Today, that is not even thinkable, you need to project yourself backward in time to see what was NACA or NASA in 1950s.

No I compared both from 60+ years ago, please re-read the post you're replying to...

This was by the way not the first case in History. Anybody that has defied the status quo of the science has been ridiculed or attacked as pseudo scientists , dreamers and even liars, that includes Socrates, Galileo Galilei, Giurdano Bruno, Sigmund Freud even Albert Einstein.

Yes and science showed that they were right, but 60+ years later we're still waiting for ANY evidence for alien UFOs or the Roswell incident that will stand up to any scrutiny...

Giuglielmo Marconi the inventor of the telegraphy without wires, and so by extension the pioneer of all the wireless communication was sent to a psychiatric hospital for almost 6 months by his own friends when he first time disclosed his findings. No body even believed it was possible such a thing that today we consider perfectly feasible.

Guglielmo Marconi the winner of the 1909 Nobel Prize in Physics? the man fully supported and financed by his family in his endeavors? I can find no evidence of your claim of his stay in such a place for his findings......please source this claim.

Christopher Columbus was accused of hoaxer and also of possible mad by the faculty of the best Universities of Europe of his time when he was allowed to talk of a trip around the ocean toward the west. We are living today where we are thanks to what in his time was called pseudoscience.

Yes religion had it's part to play in the claim the world was flat at the time, but in due course he was proven right. But 60+ years later we are still waiting for anything verifiable to do with alien UFOs or Roswell.....

You keep demonstrating why your claim that NASA and UFOlogy are comparable is utter and complete fantasy. You seem to be fond of them....

a reply to: The angel of light

It took what 5000 years or less for us to go from stone-age to what we are now, yet humans have been at this level of evolution for at least 100,000 years? I'd suggest it is more likely that at some point an advanced off-shoot of humanity broke away onto its own and given tens of thousands of years technological head start on us they have managed to be here without our knowing it. I think that is far more likely than aliens.

originally posted by: Raytrek
a reply to: The angel of light

It took what 5000 years or less for us to go from stone-age to what we are now, yet humans have been at this level of evolution for at least 100,000 years? I'd suggest it is more likely that at some point an advanced off-shoot of humanity broke away onto its own and given tens of thousands of years technological head start on us they have managed to be here without our knowing it. I think that is far more likely than aliens.

Advances in technology happen at a much higher rate than changes due to natural selection.

a reply to: Prezbo369

Prezbo,

The first rocket invented in History was in ancient China as fireworks in around 700 AD, under the Tang Dynasty. Now, in 998 AD a man named Tang Fu invented a fire arrow of a new kind having an iron head, that is considered the first missile of History.

Subsequently, one of the earliest texts to mention the use of rockets was the Huolongjing, written by the Chinese artillery officer Jiao Yu in the mid-14th century.

This text also mentioned the use of the first known multistage rocket, the 'fire-dragon issuing from the water' (huo long chu shui), used mostly by the Chinese navy.

The spread of rockets into Europe was also influenced by the Ottomans at the siege of Constantinople in 1453, although it is very likely that the Ottomans themselves were influenced by the Mongol invasions of the previous few centuries.

In their history of rockets published on the Internet, NASA says

A BRIEF HISTORY OF ROCKETRY - NASA
"Rockets appear in Arab literature in 1258 A.D., describing Mongol invaders' use of them on February 15 to capture the city of Baghdad."

You need to read more about History of rocket technology to come here and try to give us lessons of what is Science and what can't be.

Pls check

en.wikipedia.org...

science.ksc.nasa.gov...

There are around 1240 years between the invention of the first rocket and the flight of the first artifact made by men to the space, in 1942 from Peenemunde, Germany. Also there are about 1000 years in between the invention of the first missile and the landing on the moon in July 1969.

What are 68 years since Roswell incident compared with 10 or 12 centuries of waiting for the arrival of an invention like a way to go to the space or to the Moon??


Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Here is the reference to the incident in which Marconi is referred to a Psychiatric Hospital to be checked of possible dementia after he disclosed to the authorities his invention of wireless telegraphy:

Marconi wrote to the Ministry of Post and Telegraphs, then under the direction of the honorable Pietro Lacava, explaining his wireless telegraph machine and asking for funding. He never received a response to his letter which was eventually dismissed by the Minister who wrote "to the Longara" on the document, referring to the insane asylum on Via della Lungara in Rome

Here the sources:

Luigi Solari, Guglielmo Marconi e la Marina Militare Italiana, Rivista Marittima, febbraio 1948.

en.wikipedia.org...

Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich
"Marconi dreamed of a system for harassing the intangible forces of ether Evidence that he did not dream in vain may be found in every radio and television set in the world,. It may interest you to know that Marconi's 'friends' had him taken into custody, and examined in a psychopathic hospital, when he announced he had discovered a principle through which he could send messages through the air, without the aid of wires or other direct physical means of communication."

Was Marconi sent to a Psychiatric Hospital?

The term applies especially to Marconi as after inventing his wireless telegraph he wrote to the ministry of Post and Telegraphs, which at the time was under the direction of the honorable Pietro Lacava, explaining how the machine worked and asking for funding. He never received a response to his letter which was eventually dismissed by the minister who wrote "to the Longara" on the document, referring to the insane asylum on via della Lungara in Rome.

Was Marconi mad?


Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Is that all you could come up with? A red herring amongst a forest of strawman??

Laughable nnonsense

a reply to: The angel of light

A should've expected nothing less than lies and dishonesty....nothing on the wiki page about him sent to a psychiatric hospital for almost 6 months by his own friends, a forum thread discussing how there's no evidence of it and A christian blog???

See this us what I mean by people with no critical thinking skills......lol

a reply to: Prezbo369

Dear Prezbo,

well clearly you are off topic, the discussion here is not your personal interest in to dig in controversies about beliefs in the religious arena. Even your record of your own threads in ATS shows clearly your interest focused exclusively on that subject. This is not even closer to the area of your interest, this forum has nothing to do with religion, This is a thread about the Roswell slides and their negative impact in Ufology and Science in General.

If you don't accept that there is needed to invent the rocket, the missile, and the multistage missile, as well as all the telecommunications involved and also the control required plus the computers needed in advance in order to be able to go to the space, It is clear that you need to return to the school.

Now if you want to reduce the History of the Space conquest to just the years in between 1958 and 1969 or even until our days I think you are the one that must check your standards or seriousness in research, NASA didn't invent all the technology they used to sent manned spacecrasfts to the moon.

I have cited by the way a reliable book published by NASA to support my statements, about the so long history of the gradual advance on the science and technology required to go to the space, as well the reference of an Italian specialized publication on the topic, published by the Italian Navy, concerning the incident of the insane asylum in the life of G. Marconi.

I am sure the Italian armed forces don't need to falsify that at all, and well to say that an Author and journalist of the fame of Napoleon Hill in a book that has been considered by many as the greatest best seller of the 1930s and 1940s, could be falsifying it is honestly absurd. if you claim that they are lying I think you have a big problem, it is pretty visible and obvious that I even don't need to name it.

Please take a good source on Space Technology History and start to update as soon as possible .

I don't want to laugh at your statements for simple decorum and respect.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

*** ATTENTION ALL ***

Please focus on the actual topic. There is no need to make underhanded jabs at each other or to resort to off-topic banter.

Play the ball, not the player.

Thank you.

a reply to: Raytrek

Yes Raytrek,

That is a pretty interesting theory that I believe has been explored before by some UFology researchers in the recent decades. I think Von Daniken, a Swisser writer on the topic, is probably one of he figures leading the analysis of that hypothesis.

What is interesting of your remark is that it points to the possibility that civilization on this planet may appeared and disappeared several times in the past, and that is also a fascinating possibility.

I think those possible explanations of the UFO phenomenon are relevant since they show UFology is gradually taking form of a serious academic discipline and looking for its place in science.

This is clear since evaluation of hypothesis is an evident characteristic of the scientific method. I know serious researchers in the field like Stan Friedman are extremely rigorous into apply Scientific protocols to what ever they are researching in the UFO phenomena.

This the principal reason of my critic of the people that is trying to also catch the attention of the public by just doing mere speculation, trying to give life to myths even going against what scientific analysis of the evidences is dictating.

What Mr Maussan and Mr Dew did is to play games with the interest of the public on the subject, there is enough material posted in the public domain to show that they both were warned since months ago that the slides were not even remotely connected with Roswell at all. Even if they didn't want to believe other researchers, it is clear they both had the resources at hand to find for instance what was written in that museum label next to the mummy. If they were unable to perform a simple test with Photoshop on that label what kind of research protocols or quality standards they are following?

Now, coming back to Von Daniken, to respond your comment, he has stated that the universal myths or archetypes that are present in many cultures around the world, with incredible parallelisms but that are pretty evident, about the existence of civilzer gods, are in fact referring to the arrival or possibly the departure of more advanced civilizations that have been linked with this planet since thousands of years ago.

www.daniken.com...

Now, in the theories of Von Daniken, that are now about 45 years old, he is more likely to don't fix the origin of the extraterrestrial beings neither in or out of our planet, but he accepted the UFO phenomenon is much older than what ever it is right now claimed and has had a tremendous impact on the advance of important civilizations.

One of the cases he has worked a lot is the case of Hermes Trismegistos, a strange figure of the ancient Egyptian mythology that it is said brought civilization to that land and also it is the founder of the Hermetic Philosophy.

Now, what has this to do with the fiasco of the Roswell Slides? Well, probably not too much in the sense that since the beginning the only descriptions we have of the crop of the supposed UFO that crashed in New Mexico don't suggest similarity in between those beings and the humans.

However, there is another famous incident occurred not so far from that area , in north Arizona by November 5th of 1975 , in the borders of one native American reservation, in which apparently and abduction was carried out by a UFO that driven by two kind of aliens, some were very look like the description we have of Roswell , but at least there was one other figure that was very look like Human.

I am talking about the so famous case of the abduction of the logger Travis Walton.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...(UFO_witness)

About the Theory that Civilization is repeating cyclically in our planet there is also important sources as follows:

Apparently Ancient Egyptians were able to use electric bulbs for illumination

www.harunyahya.com...

www.youtube.com...


Theosophy has interesting claims on that hypothesis,

www.wisdomworld.org...

Also HInduism has that idea clearly stated,

baharna.com...


Thanks for your comment.

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Dear readers,

This is just to communicate that finally we have a formal Apology from the famous UFO author Donald R Schmitt for his initial endorsement of the so called "Roswell Slides" that were showed in Mexico city on May 5th in the infamous Show arranged by Mr Jaime Maussan.

kevinrandle.blogspot.com...

Don Schmitt,

It would seem like I've been here before... Asking my friends and colleagues to accept my sincerest apology for my participation in the recent event in Mexico City.

I accept full responsibility for the fact that I allowed myself to be drawn into this situation, albeit with the best of intentions, I sacrificed my better judgement by being overly trusting when I should have known better. As one strives to make up for the mistakes of the past, there are times that emotions cause one to outrun their headlights. In my case, I ran it right off the road.

Through the years I have worked hard to earn back your respect and confidence in my work only to presently jeopardize it all. For that I am especially remorseful.

I am afraid that after spending almost half of my life devoted to one specific investigation, I allowed the allure of final resolution cloud my skeptical nature to be replaced by a false vision of hope. I now realize that the image in the slides is a mummy as specified by the display placard.

This apology, what ever acceptance may get or not in the UFOLOGY circles , is contrasting a lot with the attitude of Jaime Maussan that until now is still insisting to defend the authenticity of the Slides and not showing any intention to step back, apologize and assume his own responsibility in this so embarrassing incident.

Don Schmitt has done what is correct, at least in this moment of deep personal reflection. His apology is more clear and complete and acceptable than the one of Anthony Bragglia that directed his primarily to the mummy boy , but at least had the initiative to apologize. Of course Mr Schmitt has pondered properly the risk of public VETO that anybody insisting to continue supporting the false evidence is facing.

One interesting aspect of his apology is that he states his mistake was to Trust in the opinion or Analysis of others, that he sacrificed his own judgement in favor of what others were saying.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Another Look like Apology is now in the web by Richard Dolan, who was in the committee of experts that presented the slides in Maussan Show.

I say look like respectfully since he is referring to the apology of Don Schmidtt not to his own one and he states that he said just that the slides deserved to be shown in public, suggesting a relative minor responsibility in the incident, or what is the meaning of that statement? I am intrigued of it, but well it is certainly going in the direction of to accept that the slides were never what it was originally claimed they supposedly were.

So gradually Mr Maussan and Mr Dew are leaving alone in their attitude to either still support the claims or ignore the public opinion that is demanding a full explanation and public apology.

This Apology deserves to be to the Ufology in general, to Mexico and USA as countries, to the public that paid her tickets to attend the show, to the Institutions that were damaged when their names were mentioned in the Scandal directly or indirectly, like UNAM or the National School of Forensic Medicine of Mexico, etc. This in spite of what ever alive or death persons were damaged by this horrible incident, including the survival witnesses of the original Roswell incident and Dr Edward Mitchell.

www.kgraradio.com...

Richard Dolan:

Just saw this message from Donald R. Schmitt regarding the so-called Roswell Slides. This had to be hard for him to write, and he has my sympathy and respect. I know without a doubt that his intentions, and those of Tom Carey, were sincere. As everyone knows, I supported the idea that the slides were interesting enough that they deserved more investigation. Well, they got it. In my opinion, the matter of the slides is CLOSED.

If others wish to debate the physiology of the body, let them. I have no more interest in this matter and fully believe we can and will move on. There remains much work to do.

Richard Dolan

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness