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well once again ukraine is damn important to russia, if it wasnt they wouldnt be doing what they are doing. so i dont know why you are surprised.
and no they wouldnt have been wiped out, its not a video game.
you dont ust loose because you are surrounded or out numbered. it doesnt work that way! name one other ttime in history that this was the case and ill name a half dozen where it wasnt.
lets lay this out. separatism in east ukraine has been fomenting for at least a good decade now.
when the coup happened more than enough military equipment was seized by the separatists. individual interests started funding and arming the separatists maybe even before russia was.
Ukrainian were selling separatists arms from the very beginning! its not a sports game where there are two teams there are hundreds of oligarchs some who even have their own private armies fighting among themselves. you idea that they would have simply been wiped out because they were surrounded makes absolutely no sense.
and last but not least we have no idea to what extent russia has even helped the separatists. might be a little might be alot. Nemtzov can make all the claims he want (well not anymore he cant) but he doesnt have single shred of evidence for ANY of his claims.
just think. thiiiiiink. what makes me so mad about you guys is not that you share an opposing viewpoint its that you dont think. you just spit out whatever western leaders feed you and never look past it. there is so much information to learn about ukraine past what the east or west msm tells us.
and no the most humane course of action would be to give the east what THEY want. what is humane about calling them terrorists after they held a referendum and then sending the army to attack them?
Correct; actual human beings are suffering and dying. Is Putin's revanchism worth it?
What makes you think that this is the Stalingrad and not Constantinople? It is easy for you to cheer them on from the comfort of your dacha, but these are people who are being deprived of their quality of life over some abstract principle that no-one has been able to articulate. Independence? What does that matter to the starving children and the corpses in the street?
Correct word, wrong tense. Separatism has been fomented in Eastern Ukraine for at least a decade. Russian Ultra-Nationalists, Fascists, Neo-Nazis and covert agents of the Russian state have created a fifth column. Whole divisions of the Ukrainian army had been taking orders from Moscow, uninterrupted, since Ukraine voted for independence.
When Russian Nazis like Pavel Gubarev seized power in Donetsk, that was a coup. Certainly many of the rebels brought the arms they used while they were hiding in the Ukrainian army with them, up to and including BUK missile launchers. They also received support from Fascist fellow travelers in Russia, no doubt.
thatast point is the only one that made sense. and Chechnya is independent, what makes you think they arent?
Correct; actual human beings are suffering and dying. Is Putin's revanchism worth it?
irrelevant. but it seems what im trying to say usually goes over your head so i shouldnt be surprised.
yeahh they are suffering because theres an army attacking them. and its not the russia army. you realize what your telling me is that the victim is the aggressor. keiv is attacking the west because they brought it on them selves and they should just give up for their own good.
so it stopped at some point? or russia hijecked it? what? you know i can just blame europe for creating a "fifth column" and brainwashed ukranians with anti russian ideology since about the early 90s to eventually manufacture a revolution to take ukraine for themselves. because they did. hahaha
well if someone punches me and then i punch them back am i in the wrong for defending myself? some fire has to be fought with fire.
im ust gonna stop right there.
im pretty tired of this. but look, see! i can fracture what you write and then argue it point by point (sometimes saying things that are wildly irrelevant). this is a trend ive been noticing with you "debunker" types.
argue the point. be an adult.
Ukraine has captured two Russian soldiers in its conflict with separatists in the country's east, Kiev said Sunday.
Military spokesman Andriy Lysenko simply named those captured as "Russian soldiers", while giving no further details.
"Our operatives are working with them at the moment. There is no other information at the moment," Lysenko said at a press briefing.
The Ukrainian Aidar volunteer battalion has claimed it captured the two Russian troops close to the town of Shchastya, which is controlled by government forces around 15 kilometres (about nine miles) away from the rebel stronghold of Lugansk.
On its Facebook page, the battalion claimed the men captured were from Russian military intelligence, or GRU.
These public statements Putin has actually signed the annexation of the Crimea and outlined his personal responsibility in the event. It is important to note that, having militarized security operation in the Crimea peninsula and joined to the Russian Federation, the Russian leadership went on a deliberate violation of the three previously signed international treaties our country:
1. "Budapest Memorandum" dated December 5, 1994, one of the articles which read: "4.1. Russian Federation, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act to respect the independence, sovereignty and existing borders of Ukraine " 26 .
2. "Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership between the Russian Federation and Ukraine", signed in Kiev, 31 May 1997: "Article 2. The High Contracting Parties, in accordance with the provisions of the UN Charter and obligations under the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe respect the territorial integrity of each other and affirm the inviolability of their existing borders " 27 .
3. "Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on the Russian-Ukrainian border", signed in Kiev on 28 January 2003 according to which Crimea was and remains an integral part of Ukraine 28 .
Boroday and Girkin arrived at Donbass in early May, after the annexation of the Crimea to the Russian Federation. This Boroday no secret that regularly happens in Moscow and coordinates its activities on the territory of Ukraine with Russian officials. June 16, 2014, he stated bluntly: "I can assure you that the Russian leadership is absolutely correct to understand how to solve the problems of the DNI, and are ready to contribute to this at a very high level. I also know for a long time and I respect presidential aide Vladislav Surkov, who always has a strong support for the NPT. Without exaggeration, Surkov - our man in the Kremlin
August 15, 2014 Prime Minister of breakaway DNI Alexander Zakharchenko publicly stated 32 that the decisive role in the counteroffensive played reinforcements came from Russia, "150 pieces of equipment, including 30 tanks, all the rest - infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, as well as 1,200 personnel staff who were trained for four months in the territory of the Russian Federation. " "They were here admitted at the crucial moment," - said Zakharchenko.
originally posted by: Plugin
We got tons (at least in Europe) people going to Syria fighting Assad.
Pretty much the same, where some people feel such great ''love'' for something or country they willing to go over there.
Hard to stop that.
originally posted by: cindywu
Every one has their own opinion about this things, we can think about it in a mutual way.
This is from Cindy www.polyurethanesupplierchina.com
www.polyurethanesupplierchina.com
originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: cindywu
www.polyurethanesupplierchina.com
Here let me help you out...
www.polyurethanesupplierchina.com
Might I ask what you think this site is supposed to show...because I can't seem to find the relation between the link and Russia being in Ukraine?
And welcome to ATS.