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Ameritox Urine Drug Test has destroyed my doctor/patient relationship... literally.

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posted on May, 12 2015 @ 10:34 PM
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I hope my doctor isn't using them!
I gave a sample this morning.
I can't imagine how you felt reading that!
Stab in the back and a slap in the face - this is medical CARE?
What happened to the CARE part!!

I hope you tear them a new one.
This is medical totalitarianism - they can control your medical care, your employment, your life.
Welcome to the New, Improved, More Powerful than a speeding locomotive,
Government.
We're all screwed if we continue to put up with this corporate medicine.




posted on May, 12 2015 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: new_here

I would not rule out the idea that the doctor has no idea what her staff has done as far as you personally...It is incredibly likely that your letter was one in a stack which she was presented during a very busy day and signed without even thinking that her staff were in the wrong.

It is entirely possible that the staff are refusing your appointments because they know they are in the wrong and don't want the doctor to find out.

I think in your place, I would consider giving the doctor the benefit of the doubt, in which case I would probably do as follows:

Find out her home address...

Write a letter (which you will be sending by certified mail) from the point of few that you are complaining about what her staff has done,

State first - "I am so sorry to trouble you at your home with this issue, but your staff are refusing to allow me to make appointments with you" (you do not want her to feel threatened considering that this is coming to her home),

Outline as concisely and clearly as possible exactly what you have said (and the pertinent stuff you've learned, i.e. the legalities) in this thread,

Include a copy of the article that was linked where Ameritox was legally charged with lying to doctors - and if possible a copy of the scientific materials which state that urine tests cannot accurately screen for the 'non-compliance' issue for which you received your letter from the doctor's 'office staff',

Express to the doctor that you are concerned that her staff may be endangering both her reputation and her practice (both due to what they have done re: the letter and their refusal to allow you an appointment to discuss the situation with the doctor)

Close with something like: "My apologies again for troubling you at home, but I'm sure you will be as concerned as I am that this matter be cleared up as soon as possible. Please call me at your earliest convenience to discuss a date and time for us to meet in person (xxx/xxx-xxxx)."

The main thing is to keep the letter politely non-confrontational, you want to show 'concern'' at the impropriety of the office staff for the doctor's sake 'as well as your own'...

Make multiple copies of this letter and all enclosures.


---Now, yes - I know that this looks like letting the doctor totally off the hook, but here's the thing:

If you can't afford a lawyer to clear your name -

- by doing the above, you can 'work it' so the doctor clears the issue from your medical records, which you can then ask for a copy of...Don't know about SC, but in Florida patients have a legal right to copies of their medical records (although the doctors have a right to charge per copy page)

Once you have your 'clean' medical records, you should be able to approach another doctor (records in hand) with no problem...

Best wishes!



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 11:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I hope my doctor isn't using them!
I gave a sample this morning.
I can't imagine how you felt reading that!
Stab in the back and a slap in the face - this is medical CARE?
What happened to the CARE part!!

I hope you tear them a new one.
This is medical totalitarianism - they can control your medical care, your employment, your life.
Welcome to the New, Improved, More Powerful than a speeding locomotive,
Government.
We're all screwed if we continue to put up with this corporate medicine.


You are right to hope they are not using them! Because they can find evidence of your prescribed medication, but it does not match the 'accepted level' of compliance to your dosage. Then they dismiss you from your practice and you get a whopping bill from Ameritox.

This is from a courtroom case in 2012, where Millenium Labs was suing Ameritox:



He was asked, “Dr. Leider, you would agree with me that Rx Guardian cannot determine the dosage of a medication that a patient has taken; isn't that correct?”
He answered, “Yes.”
Leider was then asked, “And you would agree with me that Rx Guardian cannot determine the frequency with which a patient actually is taking a prescribed medication; isn't that correct?”
He answered, “Yes.”
Moreover, Dr. Leider conceded that patients who were excluded from Ameritox's “Compliance Database” could in fact be compliant with their regimens, while those abusing or misusing their medications could actually be included.


Source

So I have been excluded from their "compliance database" possibly because I have been compared against those within their compliance database who abusing or misusing their medications. (They refer to it as a 'dynamic database' also, because they continually add so-called compliant patient data after each cup of urine passes their standards. (So theoretically, I might have passed last year, but not this year, since the numbers that indicate 'compliance' are as fluid as the pee they analyze.)

What kind of shoddy science is that???



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 11:16 PM
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originally posted by: tigertatzen
a reply to: new_here




Yes, you are correct. Well, it's this:
*I you have illegal drugs detected, they will dismiss you and report you.
*If you have legal substances not prescribed by them, they will dismiss you.
*If you do not have the right levels of what they prescribe you, they will dismiss you.



I don't understand how they could possibly get away with this legally, Obamacare or no. There are no urine drug tests out there that will yield a quantitative result. Only qualitative, positive/negative. Therapeutic drug monitoring is done via a serum blood test, where a specific drug is isolated and measured...and it won't do any good on a lot of prescription drugs because they simply don't stay in the bloodstream long enough; even controlled substances. And never mind the length of time to metabolize; anyone who drinks a lot of water on a routine basis is going to have inconclusive urine results due to dilution.

They also cannot test urine for specific drugs in each class...they'd have no way of knowing what legal substances you're taking, prescribed by them or otherwise, unless they performed blood analysis searching for a specific drug. Ditto therapeutic drug levels of any kind. They can't even do a quantitative pregnancy test on urine, much less narrow down medication usage. Get an attorney.



You are incorrect. Gas chromatography–mass spectrometry (GC-MS) testing tests for specific drugs and specific levels. A Dr. generally has testing done for any drug they prescribe. This will be marked as the Dr is looking for a positive on the drugs you are Rx'ed, other testing is generally for illicit drugs, to which they are looking for a negative.

If positive they (some Drs) have the GC-MS testing done to look for the levels in your urine screen.
Your Dr. (or his/her nurse) usually asks you at the time of your appt. when was the last time you took your medication/s, as this will be important when looking at levels.
_______________________________

OP-When you are RX'd a medication for a chronic condition, your Dr. will expect you to take your medication on a regular basis.

I don't understand why your Dr. even performed a UA if you never signed a contract with him/her, and even so, there is the continuity of care to consider. Your Dr. should have given you a months RX (even if a titrating dose) until you have time to find a new Physician.
I haven't read all of the comments yet, so not sure if this was already mentioned.

My best advice is to look for another Dr. who will treat you before worrying about an attorney at this point. I failed a UA once and I understand the fear, anger, and other emotions involved-and I would never judge. Get a copy of your records from this Dr. (you have that right!), and take the records with you on your search for another Dr.

It isn't considered Dr. shopping unless you get/fill a RX from more than one Dr., so don't accept an Rx unless it's a Dr. that you want to continue with. Be brutally honest with each Dr. that you interview (for the job of being your Dr.) Regain your confidence, hold on to your dignity, and be proactive.

Sometimes, a Dr. letting you go might be the best thing for you, because there are better Drs out there, better than a Dr. of 15 yrs letting you go without even hearing you out. You deserve better.
Good luck!



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 11:21 PM
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originally posted by: lostgirl
a reply to: new_here

I would not rule out the idea that the doctor has no idea what her staff has done as far as you personally...It is incredibly likely that your letter was one in a stack which she was presented during a very busy day and signed without even thinking that her staff were in the wrong.

It is entirely possible that the staff are refusing your appointments because they know they are in the wrong and don't want the doctor to find out.

I think in your place, I would consider giving the doctor the benefit of the doubt, in which case I would probably do as follows:

Find out her home address...

Write a letter (which you will be sending by certified mail) from the point of few that you are complaining about what her staff has done,

State first - "I am so sorry to trouble you at your home with this issue, but your staff are refusing to allow me to make appointments with you" (you do not want her to feel threatened considering that this is coming to her home),

Outline as concisely and clearly as possible exactly what you have said (and the pertinent stuff you've learned, i.e. the legalities) in this thread,

Include a copy of the article that was linked where Ameritox was legally charged with lying to doctors - and if possible a copy of the scientific materials which state that urine tests cannot accurately screen for the 'non-compliance' issue for which you received your letter from the doctor's 'office staff',

Express to the doctor that you are concerned that her staff may be endangering both her reputation and her practice (both due to what they have done re: the letter and their refusal to allow you an appointment to discuss the situation with the doctor)

Close with something like: "My apologies again for troubling you at home, but I'm sure you will be as concerned as I am that this matter be cleared up as soon as possible. Please call me at your earliest convenience to discuss a date and time for us to meet in person (xxx/xxx-xxxx)."

The main thing is to keep the letter politely non-confrontational, you want to show 'concern'' at the impropriety of the office staff for the doctor's sake 'as well as your own'...

Make multiple copies of this letter and all enclosures.


---Now, yes - I know that this looks like letting the doctor totally off the hook, but here's the thing:

If you can't afford a lawyer to clear your name -

- by doing the above, you can 'work it' so the doctor clears the issue from your medical records, which you can then ask for a copy of...Don't know about SC, but in Florida patients have a legal right to copies of their medical records (although the doctors have a right to charge per copy page)

Once you have your 'clean' medical records, you should be able to approach another doctor (records in hand) with no problem...

Best wishes!



I will give this a lot of thought. It makes a lot of sense. My doctor has ALWAYS been understanding/easy to talk to. Like I said, I've been honest with her about skimping on my dosages due to the blood pressure.

Another thing is, her husband and her father-in-law are the other two doctors (plus a couple nurse practitioners) and although I have at one time or another seen them all, she is by far the the most approachable and 'sensible' ...and it is quite possible that this decision was not of her doing and she was 'forced' to sign my dismissal.

Not sure if she would admit that to me, but I do think it could be possible.

Then again... it was the father-in-law that I saw the first time I requested the dosage be lowered by 1/3. That was 4 or 5 years ago, and he was quite pleased by it, saying "Ok, sure... we always like when you can take less of something." He didn't fire me then when I had a bunch left over at the end of the month.

The only thing that makes sense is they've started taking the advice of this company, and I've become numbers on a page, and they've lost the human side of things.

But it is worth a shot to try to get thru to her none-the-less.



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 11:25 PM
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originally posted by: Iamthatbish
As far as you've typed you are totally on this. Now breathe. Take a steamy bath and do some yoga. You have evidence the company is shady. You contacted everyone that may be able to assist you. Now walk away for a bit for your BP and pick it up again when you get a new idea or a response from someone.


God Bless You. You are right again. I am signing off for now, dear ones.

I cannot begin to thank you all for you efforts at brainstorming, providing links, suggestions, atta-girls, you name it.

You have helped me more than you know.

Just by being.



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 11:33 PM
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originally posted by: roaland
Aren't we all so glad our grand emperor has mandated Obamacare for all US citizens? we can see from this one instance how well its all going to work out in the end can't we?

I'm sorry your going through this OP. I wonder which page of the 2500+ pages this one was on? Just wait, I'm sure this is going to get worse lol. Ready to overturn that law yet? lol


I've been taking medications on a regular basis for many years. This is not a result of ObamaCare. His new health plan isn't helping.. but he didn't start this. I get random UA's and have been since before '08.



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 11:33 PM
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a reply to: new_here

This is a ridiculous situation! Since when are you required to take a urine test to show that you are on the drugs prescribed? I have never heard of such a thing. I agree, you should contact a lawyer. And the urine test costs are more than outrageous!



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 11:53 PM
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a reply to: new_here

Well, and the fact that you can show proof that Ameritox engaged in illicit/illegal practices and outright lies in order to get doctor''s business..

I bet your doctor would see it as a blessing that you are exposing the danger your doctor's practice could be in by using a very dodgy organization, which could cost your doctor's practice a huge lawsuit, if what happened to you had happened to someone who could have afforded a lawyer...

You should be able to find online the court records of the lawsuits brought against Ameritox, so you can show as much of the 'dirt' on that company as possible..

The other thing about getting the doctor on your side - is she may be able to help mediate with the insurance over the bill from the testing..



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:22 AM
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This is patient abandonment.
It is against the law and the Hippocratic oath.
I agree - contact the Dr. first and explain..
If they still say no tell them you are forced to sue.
They haven't left you a choice.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 06:02 AM
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Okay, let's see if I got this straight...

A doctor scripted you some speed, then drug tested you to make sure you
had the correct amount in your urine---because apparently if you don't
have at least the required amount show up in your urine, you are suspected
of reselling the speed you were scripted...?

You are going to have to fight this...

Or you eventually end up at a place where you are held down and forcibly
administered drugs prescribed for you.

...like a patient in a mental hospital...or a rat in a cage

it is insane...

It appears to me that you certainly have a case, considering the information
from the court ruling that a UA cannot tell for certain if medication is
being taken correctly.

It sounds like it is going to cost some money to get it done though.

I feel for you...

And thanks in advance if you do fight this because you are literally
"taking one for the team" here.

On a side note, this type of personal invasion and subsequent judgment
is only the tip of the iceberg of what will be coming.

I forsee a day when ObamaCare will be an invasive part of many facets of
our everyday lives, scrutinizing and approving or denying everything we
smoke, eat, and/or drink.

I recently had our family doctor query me about "guns in the house"
when I took our daughter in for a cold. I just tilted my head
and gave him the same type of expression that my dog gives me when
he doesn't understand a command, and finally the doctor realized that
maybe he should just concentrate on my daughter's care...








edit on 13-5-2015 by rival because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-5-2015 by rival because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: new_here

Please take no offense at the following.

One question relating to something you mentioned early on in this thread coupled with my suspicion that the DEA is involved somehow.

You stated that you had been [currently are?] a school guidance councilor. Is that at the collegiate or high school level?

It's possible that your stated profession coupled with your access to students coupled with a non-compliant UT has painted a large bullseye on your back.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: new_here

This is a ridiculous situation! Since when are you required to take a urine test to show that you are on the drugs prescribed? I have never heard of such a thing. I agree, you should contact a lawyer. And the urine test costs are more than outrageous!


Well, darkbake, I have emailed the information in my opening post to a lawyer, requesting a free consultation. That's a start I guess. I'll keep you guys posted.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: rival




A doctor scripted you some speed, then drug tested you to make sure you
had the correct amount in your urine---because apparently if you don't
have at least the required amount show up in your urine, you are suspected
of reselling the speed you were scripted...?


That's pretty much the long and the short of it. Plus the letter in my file that says the test "SHOWS you are not taking the prescribed medication" and "if you need drug rehabilitation..." (Like do those two statements even go together? If I was not taking it, I would hardly need to be rehabilitated from it.)

The more I think about it, this is a blessing in disguise. My doctor is an idiot.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 09:23 AM
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originally posted by: LeslieD
a reply to: new_here

Please take no offense at the following.

One question relating to something you mentioned early on in this thread coupled with my suspicion that the DEA is involved somehow.

You stated that you had been [currently are?] a school guidance councilor. Is that at the collegiate or high school level?

It's possible that your stated profession coupled with your access to students coupled with a non-compliant UT has painted a large bullseye on your back.



Naw, I'm a retired elementary school guidance counselor. I retired a few years ago. I've had this prescription for over a decade, twice asked for it to be lowered. They're prescribing 1/3 of what they used to... at MY request. I hardly meet the profile for a drug dealer, even in their muddy eyes.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: new_here

Remember, that is a nationwide database.

If you get in a car wreck, do you want them afraid to give you pain Meds.

Any Doc or Pharmacy or Hospital you go to will see the red flag.

You have an over zealous office manager. You have to someway go around her.

Once you talk with the Doc, this will go away.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 10:48 AM
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originally posted by: whyamIhere
a reply to: new_here

Remember, that is a nationwide database.

If you get in a car wreck, do you want them afraid to give you pain Meds.

Any Doc or Pharmacy or Hospital you go to will see the red flag.

You have an over zealous office manager. You have to someway go around her.

Once you talk with the Doc, this will go away.



I emailed the SC Medical Board and layed it all on the line, asking for advice. This was the response:




Dear [my name], I can advise you but only in a limited fashion which is that you may file a complaint against an individual who is licensed by the medical board. Complaints may be filed online here. www.llr.state.sc.us...

The remainder of your question may be private legal questions and would involve entities not regulated or licensed by the board. Thanks!



Is the last sentence added as a hint to Get A Lawyer?

If you were me, would you:
A. File a complaint immediately.
B. File it AND get a Lawyer.
C. Get a Lawyer FIRST.
D. Try to get thru to the Doctor First, by letting the office manager know that the medical board has provided me a link to file a complaint.
E. Other

I want the record set straight. I want the bill to go away. I want a doctor. I don't want to have to pay out the wazoo for these things!

Any and all opinions welcome, and what do you all make of that last sentence from the medical board?



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 11:12 AM
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a reply to: MystikMushroomi say sue ameritox and do not pay them one red cent. also they have started screening you because you are taking a drug that people buy off the street and the big phrma don't want to get cut out their business. supposedly adderall on some people act as as a cognitive enhancer similar to the drug in limitless but not to those extremes



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 11:24 AM
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Some Quack Doctors Purge their "Control Meds Patients" periodically.

But after 15 years ? No way. What Region do you live in ?

Filing a complaint won't do anything. The rules are not clear.

Doctors don't take chances. Go down to your Doctor Office.

Nicely request a consultation with the Doctor or your PA.

But, I will just tell you forget it. Get your records so you know what they wrote.

Find another Doctor. Ask a cool Pharmacist, they know the Doctors that write these scripts.



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 11:53 AM
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This is why I find this situation strange. I am in a "rehab" program. I had a big problem with pain pills about 6 years ago. It's a long story but basically started out as a legit thing, then ran away. I know that this is not what YOUR issue is. I'm just using it as reference. I've been completely off pain pills now for 4 years.


So long and short of it, I was on Suboxone for a few years. Now I am on Bunavail. Both are S3 drugs used to treat opiate addiction. In "my" mind that sounds more serious than Adderall (I believe that is what you are on?).

Here is why I bring this up. I have to be urine screened every 2 months. In the beginning, sometimes I WOULD come up dirty. Other patients do too. For things like pain pills, heroin, etc etc etc. Those are major hard core illegal drugs.

And yet... the doctor doesn't drop us. They re-dose, and re-schedule a 2 week follow up to re-check urine. These are HARD CORE drugs in some people who were HARD CORE addicts. And yet the doctor doesn't just up and drop us. If you come up showing you don't have any suboxone or bunavail in your system.. they do question you. But NEVER drop you. They also NEVER question the "level" of the drug in your system. As long as it shows.. in ANY quantity, its clear. Every human being metabolizes things differently. What may stay in your system for 3 days may clear mine in 24 hours.

My point being... your doctor sounds extremely shady and I wouldn't be one bit surprised if he/she/they were under some form of DEA investigation. Or had been at some point. After some research on your situation, I'm afraid that the doctor DOES have the right to drop you as a patient. But not "cold". Especially if you are on a controlled substance and have been so under their care. They HAVE to make arrangements to take care of you until you've found a suitable replacement.

I think your biggest thing is with the ethics of the doctors. They sound like real scum bags. So I would still fight them. Especially fight this Ameritox situation. If you can't afford a lawyer, I'm sure there are groups that would LOVE to take up your case.


edit on 13-5-2015 by DerekJR321 because: (no reason given)



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